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Ianto Still Not Eating, Mystery, Please Help If You Can X X

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Catherine Duffield

Catherine Duffield

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Hi,
We had to put our beloved Llewi to sleep Christmas Eve as this 'mystery illness' made him so weak he just gave up,
Llew started with a severe pneumonia which even after constant hand feeding and meds, couldn't save him.
His brother Ianto developed a few sneezes a few days after Llew started on meds and was put on Baytril (now 12 days ago - 18th Dec) . He lost his appetite very quickly on Baytril and became very quiet. After 3 days we took him back, his lungs had cleared well. As he had lost his appetite on Baytril the vet changed him to Septrin instead. I started hand feeding him constantly.

Well he has been off AB for 4 days now, his lungs are still clear, the vet has looked closely at his teeth under anaesthetic (they're perfect) and the x-ray shows nothing abnormal. Ive been feeding him Critical Care for the past week. He'll eat some celery leaves and quite a few dandelion leaves but he's loosing weight little by little (even though i'm constantly hand feeding him). He's alert and bright eyed but he's very quiet in his hutch.

We've put him in a different hutch for a bit as the other one might remind him and smell of his brother and upset him.

We're totally lost with what could be the problem. Has anyone had any simillar problems please?
We're getting desperate now. We have an app with an exotic pet specialist tomorrow morning, she can do a blood test but i dont know what that could show?

Thank you so much for any help and advice,
Cath & Ianto x x
 
Sorry to hear about your loss and of little Lanto's illness. Baytril can sometimes cause them to go off their food from time to time.

Guinea pigs are very good at hiding illness, so working out exactly what is wrong without further tests would be difficult. A blood test would be what I would be doing next, it can show any problems with liver and kidneys, any systemic illness, it would also show any anaemia or infection. Has your vet tried pain relief if there is something painful going on? Is your little on still pooing normally and has your vet run any urine testing?

x
 
Hi and welcome!

I am ever so sorry for your loss! You are welcome to post a tribute to your Llewi in our Rainbow Bridge section if and whenever it feels right for you.
Your loss rings a bell with me, as I used to have a Llewi (Llewelyn) myself. He was the founder piggy of my Tribe, who passed away nearly 5 years ago; he had been rescued in Midwales and had got his name at the rescue. All my piggies have got Welsh names, too! ;)

Have you checked Ianto's pooing and peeing to make sure that there is enough food and water going in? The size and colour can give you hints as to whether his digestion is still working normally or not. Antibiotics kill not only bad bacteria, but also the good bacteria in the guts; this can dampen or even kill any appetite, as can pain. I would strongly recommend to give a pinch of a probiotic twice daily to help support the guts. You can find more information in this thread here: Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Perhaps a swab if there is any discharge from the nostrils can bring clarity as to what could be causing the respiratory symptoms and what could be causing them. Please be aware that any lab tests will take time and ar not cheap.

How old is Ianto? The loss of his companion can have contributed to a weakened immune system and may have brought underying issues to the fore; this happens more often with older guinea pigs. Please bring him indoors if possible; especially in the colder and stormy weather that we are currently experiencing. It is good that you have switched hutches, in case there is an infectious bug; Otherwise, guinea pigs generally prefer to have the scent of their beloved companions lingering.
 
Thank you both so much for your help. I hate feeling helpless! Our vet has said she cannot do anymore after the teeth check and xrays came back normal, hopefully the blood tests with the new vets will come back with something.
His poops have been perfect up until yesterday when the vet said to start using Ranitidine as the x-ray showed a gut full of food! Now his poops are a little on the soft side but i think this is down to the Ranitidine? His wee has been a weird rusty orange colour too, we read it could be down to AB?
I have been feeding him 30ml of critical care feed 4 times a day and around 8ml of water with probiotics 4 times a day too, Please advise if you think he needs more/less water etc.
Their hutch is indoors anyway, couldn't bear the thought of them outside so he's comfortable.
He keeps chewing on cardboard, paper, fabric which is strange for him. ANy idea why they do this?
What's confusing me is that his lungs have cleared up really well, so how come he now has a different problem he didn't have before. His nose is fine somedays and other days is slightly shiny with a bit of wet showing. Could this be enough to put him off his food?

Wiebke, yes ours was a Llewelyn too :wub: (my beautiful Ginger and White boy in my photo) ours all have welsh names too :o)

Thank you all again x x
 
Catherine Duffield said:
Thank you both so much for your help. I hate feeling helpless! Our vet has said she cannot do anymore after the teeth check and xrays came back normal, hopefully the blood tests with the new vets will come back with something.
His poops have been perfect up until yesterday when the vet said to start using Ranitidine as the x-ray showed a gut full of food! Now his poops are a little on the soft side but i think this is down to the Ranitidine? His wee has been a weird rusty orange colour too, we read it could be down to AB?
I have been feeding him 30ml of critical care feed 4 times a day and around 8ml of water with probiotics 4 times a day too, Please advise if you think he needs more/less water etc.
Their hutch is indoors anyway, couldn't bear the thought of them outside so he's comfortable.
He keeps chewing on cardboard, paper, fabric which is strange for him. ANy idea why they do this?
What's confusing me is that his lungs have cleared up really well, so how come he now has a different problem he didn't have before. His nose is fine somedays and other days is slightly shiny with a bit of wet showing. Could this be enough to put him off his food?

Wiebke, yes ours was a Llewelyn too :wub: (my beautiful Ginger and White boy in my photo) ours all have welsh names too :o)

Thank you all again x x
Click to expand...

The syringe feeding amount is too low if that is pretty much the only source of food Ianto is getting. Up to 80% of the food intake should be hay. It is very difficult to control that. I would aim for 60-90 ml in a day, but basically try to give as much as Ianto will take in one go; the less, the more often. A healthy adult piggy in its prime will need about 120ml in syringe feed and/or solids to maintain its weight. You can find information about how much and how often to feed in a range of scenarios in our syringe feeding guide; it is well worth a read through! ;)

Eating nutritionally poor fibre like cardboard it typical for when the guts are bit out of kilter. Ianto is trying to rectify that; let him. To help this, you may want to look at also giving fibreplex (see the end of the syringe feeding guide); it can help quite a bit. Giving him lots of fibre in his diet, is the best thing you can do.
If you have got more guinea pigs, soaking fresh healthy poos in a little bit of water and then syringing that also helps to restock the guts with "the right stuff", even if it is bit gross.

Ianto is coming up to being an older guinea pig; so it may be worth considering alternative issues. However, it can be down to a strong reaction to antibiotics, but it is going to be a bit of trial and error as to what is going on.

Your Llewi was sucha stunning boy! :love:
My Llewelyn was a ginger and white boy, too! He'd lost half an ear in the pen he had to share with other guinea pigs, rabbits and chickens before he was rescued.
upload_2015-12-30_19-5-57.webp
 
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Oh he's absoultely adorable! :) What a handsome chap!

Sorry i didnt make it clear. Iants is usually a fatty at 1400g (he's 1300g at the moment) so I'm managing to get 30ml into him 4 times a day so he's getting at least 120ml a day.
What i'm worried about is that if i'm feeding him this amount will he be too full to want to eat his veggies?
What's strange is that he will eat dandelion leaves and some celery leaves when we hand feed him but wont much else and he's usually non stop!
 
Does the inside of his mouth look sore ? Being poorly with the sneezes will have lowered his immune system a bit, allowing other stuff to go wrong - my first thought was an oral thrush, which doesn't always show as a white lining in the mouth :) That might be putting him off maybe? Just an idea though. I agree with @Wiebke on giving loads of fibre though, hopefully will get his guts and appetite going a bit :)
 
Catherine Duffield said:
Oh he's absoultely adorable! :) What a handsome chap!

Sorry i didnt make it clear. Iants is usually a fatty at 1400g (he's 1300g at the moment) so I'm managing to get 30ml into him 4 times a day so he's getting at least 120ml a day.
What i'm worried about is that if i'm feeding him this amount will he be too full to want to eat his veggies?
What's strange is that he will eat dandelion leaves and some celery leaves when we hand feed him but wont much else and he's usually non stop!
Click to expand...

You can go two ways with trying to ease him over to veg again once his poos have firmed up and are looking good again. I would not try pushing veg until he has stabilised for 24-48 hours on the fibre to give his guts time to settle down. Ranitidine/zantac is there to help with any gassing issues.

You can either try to offer him veg first and then just top up or you can give him a little syringe feed to stimulate the guts the and the appetite and then shift to veg and back to topping up if necessary. As you have discovered yourself, fresh herbs like coriander/cilantro, parsley or dill, celery leaves or dandelion tend to go down best with an ill/recovering piggy at first; they are also rich in minerals and vitamins.

You do not have to worry that he is not getting enough food - 30 ml in one is a VERY good portion for a piggy with appetite problems! :)

If there is any weight loss going on, then it has likely got a different reason.
 
Hi everyone, Happy New Year to you all.
Thank you so much for all your advice and suggestions.
A little update on Iants -
We took him to the specialist Exotic vets and she was very thorough with his history and examination (we were in the consultation room around 50minutes!)

When we told her how much Baytril he had been on previously (0.3mls @ 10% twice daily) she made a face, apparently this is too high a dose? Anyone agree as I wouldn't know.

Anyway she said if I hadn't told her there was anything wrong she wouldn't have thought there was as he's in great condition, teeth look fine etc, well hydrated. (So i should think after syringe feeding him CC and water/probiotics constantly for 8/9 days!)

She put it down to the Baytril side effects and gave us Ranitidine, Fibreplex (which i was going to get anyway on your suggestions :) and Metrinidazole as a Gut healer antibiotic. I wasnt keen on giving him the AB to be honest but we gave him 2 doses and his appetite plumetted again and went back to beeing quiet and lethargic again. So we stopped it, carried on with the Ranitidine and Fibreplex.

Well yesterday he ate like a horse! Mostly veggies but he's eating a lot more hay now too.

I'm keeping my eye on his weight to supplement with CC if needed until he's back to normal as he's still not eating as much hay as we'd like.

He keeps going for the cardboard paper towel roll before the hay so last night we took the tube out and he seemed to turn to the hay more which was great.

Any other suggestions on getting him eating more hay again would be most welcome please? :)

We left some veggies for him over night and they've mostly gone which is great.

When do I stop the ranitidine or fibreplex?

He's still not back drinking water on his own so shall i keep syringe him? He's never been a big water drinker, he gets so much from his veggies because he's sually a fatty and eats loads! ;)

Thank you all so much once again, wonderful knowing you're all here for support :)
 
Thansk for the update, sorry you are going through this. Really hard after losing a piggy to have another poorly.

Rantidine is a gut stimulant and protectant - it wont hurt keeping him on it for a while, nice to see a vet prescribing it. We have always had good results it is Zantac what we hoomans use.

As to hay I recommend getting some oxbow Orchard Grass it is expensive but lasts and they tend to love it. They will often eat it from your hands. Oxbow Timothy hay will also help piggies love different types of hay

I would keep up with the water syringing it won't hurt and piggies tend to enjoy it :)

Sending you little one lots of healing vibes, we are all here for you if you need to chat and will help if we can

Could I ask you to update your profile to include your location, it helps if we ever need to tailor advice to where you are in the world

Lee
 
Catherine Duffield said:
Hi everyone, Happy New Year to you all.
Thank you so much for all your advice and suggestions.
A little update on Iants -
We took him to the specialist Exotic vets and she was very thorough with his history and examination (we were in the consultation room around 50minutes!)

When we told her how much Baytril he had been on previously (0.3mls @ 10% twice daily) she made a face, apparently this is too high a dose? Anyone agree as I wouldn't know.

Anyway she said if I hadn't told her there was anything wrong she wouldn't have thought there was as he's in great condition, teeth look fine etc, well hydrated. (So i should think after syringe feeding him CC and water/probiotics constantly for 8/9 days!)

She put it down to the Baytril side effects and gave us Ranitidine, Fibreplex (which i was going to get anyway on your suggestions :) and Metrinidazole as a Gut healer antibiotic. I wasnt keen on giving him the AB to be honest but we gave him 2 doses and his appetite plumetted again and went back to beeing quiet and lethargic again. So we stopped it, carried on with the Ranitidine and Fibreplex.

Well yesterday he ate like a horse! Mostly veggies but he's eating a lot more hay now too.

I'm keeping my eye on his weight to supplement with CC if needed until he's back to normal as he's still not eating as much hay as we'd like.

He keeps going for the cardboard paper towel roll before the hay so last night we took the tube out and he seemed to turn to the hay more which was great.

Any other suggestions on getting him eating more hay again would be most welcome please? :)

We left some veggies for him over night and they've mostly gone which is great.

When do I stop the ranitidine or fibreplex?

He's still not back drinking water on his own so shall i keep syringe him? He's never been a big water drinker, he gets so much from his veggies because he's sually a fatty and eats loads! ;)

Thank you all so much once again, wonderful knowing you're all here for support :)
Click to expand...

Good that you could have him seen promptly! Baytril is a real appetite killer, and Ianto is obviously rather sensitive to antibiotics. Your previous vet was obviously trying to hit him hard because of what happened with Llewelyn; in order to prevent him going down. Baytril is still the only officially licensed antibiotic for guinea pigs and it is a decent allrounder, but it can come with issues. :(

It is great that Ianto is feeling much better in himself and that he has started eating on his own. It may take some more days until it all has settled down fully. Until then, please continue to give him the fibreplex, which also contains probiotics to rebuild the gut fauna, and I would also continue with the ranitidine for another day. Keep on weighing him daily until you are sure that Ianto is back to his old self. Don't overdo the veg in order to encourage him eating hay whenever he is hungry. If he is eating a fair amount of veg, he won't be as thirsty and will drink less, as he is getting fluid from the veg. Drinking is very individually different.

Recommendations For A Balanced General Guinea Pig Diet
 
Hi there glad he is perking up a little, I'm certainly no guinea pig expert I've only been keeping them for 4 weeks but with regards to trying to get him to eat a bit more hay perhaps I you tried rubbing juicy veg such as carrot or maybe apple onto bits of hay may trick him into thinking its a nice juicy bit of veg? Hope he continues to improve x
 
Just wanted to say how pleased I was to read that Ianto is picking up and is eating for himself again. This is such a credit to you and your incredible care for him
 
Just wanted to say how pleased I was to read that Ianto is picking up and is eating for himself again. This is such a credit to you and your incredible care for him
 
Thanks for the lovely words :)

Could someone please advise me on the syringe feeding going forward please?
Iants is eating a lot more on his own now so we've cut back on the CC feed by half. What i'm worried about is that his weight is still not picking up. I'm not sure how to manage decreasing the CC feed, how quickly and by how much?
I'm not sure how long it should take him before he's back to supporting himself fully again?
Thank you :)
 
Catherine Duffield said:
Thanks for the lovely words :)

Could someone please advise me on the syringe feeding going forward please?
Iants is eating a lot more on his own now so we've cut back on the CC feed by half. What i'm worried about is that his weight is still not picking up. I'm not sure how to manage decreasing the CC feed, how quickly and by how much?
I'm not sure how long it should take him before he's back to supporting himself fully again?
Thank you :)
Click to expand...

Weigh him daily before you give him dinner; the weight should at least stay stable, ideally go up a little. What you do not want to see is a loss of weight.

You can offer him syringe feed twice or three times daily and let him have as much as he wants; ideally it should be less with each passing day. It can take some time until the weight really picks up after a major illness or operation, so don't panic. Right now, your aim is to keep the current weight stable while he is shifting over to eating on his own. The rest will come on its own eventually.
 
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