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Ill Piggy :(

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ScarletSox

ScarletSox

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Morning everyone,

I have had a very worrying morning and thought i would pop on here for some advice. sorry about the long thread.

I got up this morning and noticed there were a few very white chalky wees on my piggies Dark Brown fleece.

I hadn't noticed anything wrong with either of the boys at all and as I have been working from home this week i know they have been eating and drinking and running about normally. whilst I was getting some clean bedding out i heard one of my Boars - Riley hunched up in his litter tray and he was whimpering and squeaking when he was trying to pee or poop... he was really huffing and puffing.

I had a look on this forum which mentioned a few things .ie. stones etc so i made an emergancy Appointment with my vets who are directly accross the road from me (very handy)

I have been over this morning with Riley after sitting him in an old washing up bowl giving him some cucumber trying to get him to pee... i thought it would be best to get a sample before i went.

His pee came out very sandy and was almost milky white.

i took it over to the vets

She checked him all over and said his eyes and nose were both fine and he was looking nice and alert and bright

she felt his bladder and said it felt empty and that as he wasn't ''hitting the roof it was unlikely he had a stone''

so she took his pee away to analyze it while we waited..

when she came back she said it wasn't concentrated which was good it was very dilute which means he is drinking ok. but it did have crystals in it and also some bacteria. so she has given me baytril

she gave him an injection to get him started and I am to give him .73 ml of baytril every day

i have looked on here and there are lots of differing opinions of how much to give him but i cant see .73 mls anywhere

can someone help.. should she be giving him something else for the Crystals in the wee?
all she could offer me was not to feed him too much from the greens family .ie Kale or cabbage.

thing is they dont get Kale or cabbage anyway really.. they get pretty much a choice of everything else under the sun but cos we dont eat it in the house its not something we tend to keep... Is there something else that could be causing the milky wee.. he is in so much pain its heartbreaking watching him climb in his tray and shudder like that.

ive checked his poops as well and they seem normal.. ?

I'm really worried.... 8...

Please help
 
I'm sorry he is not well and you have spent the morning worrying. Milky urine in itself is normal, nothing to worry about; it's when it's gritty that it points to possible problems.

The Baytril dose actually sounds ok, it would generally be split into two doses, up to 0.4ml each dose. If you can give two doses per day, around 0.3ml - 0.4ml, it will be the usual guinea pig dose.

Can you tell if the urine felt gritty? While a stone may not be present, gritty-feeling urine may indicate "sludge"/"silt" which can sometimes be a precursor to stones if not flushed out.

The best advice I can give at the moment is to ensure he's getting plenty of fluids to help flush his bladder out and improve bladder health. Aim for 40ml per day, if you can aim for more than 10ml at a time it would be ideal to really flush him out (bladder capacity is thought to be around 10ml); not many piggies will accept more than a few ml at a time so don't fret if he won't take much, just get as much water into him as you safely can!

Did the vet give any painkillers? Ideally he really does need Rimadyl or Metacam to help with the pain and reduce any inflammation relating to his condition.

What is his usual veggie diet like?

Did the vet say anything about doing an xray to check for stones?
 
Hiya!

The white pees are simply excess calcium being excreted. Your boy can either have cystitis or still have a stone/bladder sludge, which only an x-ray (NO general aneastetic necessary!) can tell. Some pees can be very "normal", while others are not. The presence of crystals should be reason to investigate further.

The dosis of baytril is actually not far off, but you should give it in two doses of 0.4 ml distributed over the day.

You could ask your vet for some pain killer/antiinflammatory like metacam to help with the pain. For acute pain, you can give childrens nurofen 0.2 ml (the weakest form), but I would not recommend doing that regularly.

With baytril, a probiotic is also to be recommended to help with the impact on gut. A better (much less harsh and more ideal) antibiotic for the urinary system would be pediatric septrin 0.5 ml twice daily, but baytril is the only licenced antibiotic for guinea pigs and your vet might refuse to prescribe it.
I printed out the page from guinealynx when I fought that particular battle at my vets! Septrin is the only oral form of the "bactrim" that is mentioned on the page.

Go and get hold of some unsweetened cranberry juice (Ocean Wave light is usually sold in in bigger spermarkets) and syringe him as much as he will drink as often as you can. I usually mix it with water, so it goes down better. The more fluid he gets, the more bacteria (cystitis) he can flush out, even if it is more painful at first. Syringes you can get from a pharmacy or your vet in a hurry.
 
Hi Scarletsox

I'm having the same sort of problem with one of my pig's Pepper at the moment.

I have posted a few threads on it.

My Pig Pepper is on the antibiotic Septrin and he Loves the flavour, although I had to go back to my vets and ask for it because they gave him Baytril to start with. I also manged to get him x-rayed without gas. The first two vets rolled their eyes at me as though I was mad when I suggested they wrap him up in a towel. The 3rd vet said he'd certainly have a go. So I was pleased.
With Peppers urine sample they said it had slight blood in it and low crystal and they didnt think the crystals were a problem.
The advice from other on here is Fantastic. Give Riley plenty of water.

Milky wee from piggies can be normal all depends what they have eaten before hand.
Big hugs to Riley and hope hes feeling better soon.
 
Looking up

Thanks for your advice everyone... I have made sure that he had has plenty of water last night and this morning I gave him .4ml of the baytril as you advised. it wasnt too difficult and he seemed to take it in his stride - I will give him the .3ml dose later on tonight when I get in after work.. I hope he is ok.. He was rather irritable last night and he and his Cage mate were annoying each other rumbling and chattering and following each other around, I wondered if that was because Riley smelled of medicine or the vets?.. I hope they dont start disaggreeing with each other while I'm out ...

I will get some Cranberry juice on the way home from work and try them both with this.. I'm sure they will take it ...

Lauraccc4 - His pee was definately very gritty when I took the sample to the vets. when I poured it in the pot I could see the sandy bits at the bottom.

The vet said the baytril was for the little bit of bacteria that he had in his pee but she didnt give anything specifically for the grittyness. Is this just something I can stop by not giving him dark green food?mallethead

Has anyone else found this has gone away ... or has it always led to something more serious.. 8...

Could it be from the dry food he was having? We tried them on a bag of Wagg Museli for a while but they just picked out the bits they liked and left the rest so I have gone back to the plain nuggets from pah which they seem to love... I will have another look at the ingrediants. I really hope it doesnt turn into stones. I didnt notice him whimpering last night so hopefully his pain has passed already. I will continue with the Baytril anyway of course.:(

can I go back to the vets and ask for metacam if I notice he is still in pain? is there anything else i can do at the moment or is it just sit and wait time?
 
Do ask the vet for Metacam if you feel he is in pain. Pain can put pigs off their food if it's bad enough. You could give children's Nurofen/Calpol if the vets won't prescribe Metacam or Rimadyl.

You can actively treat the problem at the moment with an antibiotic, an anti-inflammatory, and plenty of fluids. Flushing the bladder out can assist a cure, while the antibiotic and anti-inflammatory will deal with any infection, and inflammation (which may occur with either cystitis or stones). Nothing can 'stop' stones forming but certain things you do can reduce the likelihood of them developing. Good fluid intake is generally the first step!

As far as the diet goes, the vets advice is fairly inaccurate. Leafy greens are an important part of the diet. The diet can be modified, but you don't want to eliminate all foods rich in calcium! These two links may help:
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37030
http://www.store2go.net/shop/planetguinea/ratewatchersrainbowdiet.pdf
 
Some pigs get stones, some pigs don't get stones, it is down to the luck of the draw.
 
its been a week

now since I notice Riley was Crying when he was peeing, He has been on the Baytril and taking it like a champ, tho i have been late for work twice so far as he bluntly refused to take it a couple of mornings and only after letting him romp on the sofa for 15 mins he let me get it in his mouth.. :)

I really am worried, i dont want my little man to be in pain, I've not given him much at all since then he's wondering what going on, Not more basil treats and medicine for breakfast !

I really thought he was over it until last night I caught him crying in the litter tray again, I dont know what to do :(grrrr

How long does it take to go away or will it only go away with an operation. My old cat had a similar thing and the vet had to put a catheter in and flush out the crystals. Is that what they will do to Riley? will he have to have a GA? he is quite well behaved and doesnt normally struggle if you hold him nicely !

Do I need to wait these next few days and get another appt at the V.E.T.'s?

She didnt say anything about xrays and stuff last time and cos I was trying to remember everything - I didnt actually ask about it... mallethead
Should I suggest this to her ?

its terrible really cos other than the whimpering you would know there was anything wrong at all,, he was galloping round the living room last night at 90 miles an hour! popping all along the way x)
 
If there's no luck in flushing his bladder out with fluids given orally or by injection (subcutaneously), then a skilled vet may be able to flush the bladder out via a catheter as you mention. I've not had a pig have this done so whether a GA is needed or not, I don't know. Do discuss with the vet having him xrayed to check for stones; if you can persuade the vet to do the xray without GA it will be a lot easier on you and Riley.

Did you get any pain relief for him?
 
back Again

8...8...Took Riley back to the vets at the weekend and she prescribed Septrin as you all recommended.

He has been taking this for last few days as well as I have been giving him fresh water through the syringe. not sure how much he is getting cos most of it ends up on me but I have seen no improvement at all really and he has lost some weight. He is still drinking and eating normally as far as I can tell, and still has loads of energy bouncing around at floor time ...but this morning while I was giving him his medicine he started figeting like he needed a wee so I left him on my lap stroking him gently while he was crying and squeaking trying to calm him and when he finally went to wee on the towel its was literally like sugar!

I popped him onto the sofa at this point and he did about 10 poops all at the same time... could this be something to do with it aswell.. Is he saving them up because of the pain... 8...I have booked an appt for 12.30 at the vets .
I really dont think these antibiotics are doing the trick...

what should I ask for at the vets? metacam, Will this help?

can I ask that they xray him.. I can't bear to see him like this any longer !
 
Metacam will give some pain relief but not fix the problem in itself. Sorry, I don't have any advice to offer above that already given, is your vet rodent savvy? Otherwise it may be worth finding your local rodentologist. Hope it goes ok at 12.30

Sophie
x
 
I'm sorry he's still not well. Do ask for an xray, it's the next step to getting him sorted and he does need something doing now that you know the antibiotics aren't doing the trick. Fingers crossed. xx
 
not stones?

Took him in the afternoon and the vet gave him an x ray - no GA PHEW")

she took me through it all and there were no stones that they could see on the xray which has made me fee slightly better at least.

She has told me to keep up the Septrin but has said thers not much more they can do at the moment, and has advised me to see a another Vet .. she recommended Strathmore Vet Clinic in Andover.. which is about 50 miles away from me and as I dont drive and nor does anyone in my family I'm a bit stuck.. does any one have any suggestions ? I live in Windsor ? if anyone knows any good Guinea Savvy vets near me?

I feel like crying at the moment 8...
 
Completely understand your concern - my Beechie has bladder problems and also has a problem pooing (saves them all up!) Having said that the poo issue could be a side effect of the antibioitic...so give him mashed up poos or pro-biotic to help his gut flora

I believe the following Vets in Ewell are guinea pig savvie (although I;ve never visited).

http://s279208454.websitehome.co.uk/ewellpage1.htm

Also Jenny Towers in Tilehurst -(again I;ve not met her personally)
http://www.activevetcare.co.uk/Practices/tilehurst.asp


If the X ray shows no bladder stones - try on boiled pearl barley water plus concentrated Hollland and Barratt Cranberry extract..

Get pearl barley and boil half a cupful in water for 45 mins (you may need to add water during the process to stop it boiling dry). Then collect the water by pouring into a sieve over a bowl - mash the pearl barley in the seive to make sure all the gloop goes through the sieve.

Dilute the gloop 4 parts gloop to one part cranberry and put in fridge. Feed 1-2ml of room temperature cranberry gloop, two or three times a day to piggie - this should help cut down the irritation in the bladder that is cuasing the pain/discomfort

Piggie should also be on metacam for the pain (give [*]half[/*] the recommended daily dose but [*]twice[/*] daily as they metabolise it fast so once a day is not a good regime). Pain will stop a piggie eating.

Keep going on the septrin as it can take 3-4 weeks to clear a bladder infection

Also try feeding him paediatric diarolyte or water to keep his fluid levels up - if his urine is the thick consistency of sugar then he is getting dehydrated. He should be taking in at least 10-20ml of water per day. If he won;t easily take the syringe, don;t give up. You may have to force feed him fluids (and also runny Supreme recovery) to keep his stength up - it is unpleasant but needs to be done to keep him hydrated and keep his weight..

If he is not drinking enough water/fluids for whatever reason, he will eventually need sub cutaneous fluids injection from a vet. You will know because his eyes will get dull and sunken and his coat lose condition if he is dehydrated. Also when you pinch his skin/fur on the back of his neck, it will not automatically spring back into place.

You also will need to weigh your piggie every day at the moment because he is not well - a change (loss) in weight over two of three days of more than 50g means a vet visit immediately.

PM me if you need further details.

Hope Riley makes a full recovery
x
 
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