Intermittent hooting

[Cittycat]

Just here looking to share my guinea pig worries and appeal to your wisdom and experience.

One of my girls has been hooting on and off for about three weeks now. The start of it all coincided with the opening of a bag of seriously dusty hay, which it turns out may have just been a weird coincidence, but to start with I figured that was the cause of the hooting and she did stop making the noise after maybe an hour or so. It reoccurred a day or two later, but as with the first time, it stopped again not long after starting. This went on for about a week and then - worried I had an infection on my hands and had already waited way too long - I made an appointment at my vets asap. I couldn't see my usual guinea pig savvy vet because I was keen for someone to look at her straight away.

The vet I saw was lovely but admitted cats and dogs are more his thing and I may need to see my normal vet if things didn't clear up. He thought perhaps there was a very slight crackle when listening to her chest (she wasn't hooting during our appointment), and we'd go ahead and treat her for a suspected respiratory infection. She's been on Metacam and Sulfatrim for a couple of weeks now and the hooting is still happening on and off. It hasn't got any worse, but I can't honestly say I've really noticed any improvement either, and she finds taking the medicine extremely stressful. Taking her medicine also sometimes seems to aggravate whatever's causing the hooting. She gets herself so distressed (particularly when being given the Sulfatrim) that I'm worried she hasn't had the full dose, which makes me worry that there is an underlying infection and I'm just not doing a good enough job looking after her to get on top of it.

I should add that she's not off her food (at all!), she's maintaining her weight, she's as bright and lively as ever (she's five years old), if she wasn't hooting on occasion I wouldn't think anything was wrong. Just because I'm watching her so super closely now I do wonder if her breathing is a bit more laboured than my other guinea pig; I seem to be able to see her sides moving more clearly when she breathes than with my other girl (who doesn't even look like she's taking a breath!). I just have this sinking fear it's a heart problem and just wondered if these symptoms ring a bell with anyone here who's been through this before? I will be getting in touch with my regular vet tomorrow to book a follow up appointment. I just wondered if anyone could shed any light on what might be going on because it's really been worrying me for the last few weeks.

TLDR - guinea pig still making intermittent hooting sound after being treated for URI - worried it could be a heart problem?

 

[PigglePuggle]

Hi, it isnt uncommon for URIs to be a bit persistant and the vet may need to try a different antibiotic or a higher dose of the existing antibiotic before its clears- I recently went through this myself with Blodwen pig, and @Betsy is going through this right now with poor grunty honky Dennis!
No need to panic and assume a heart problem, that is a possibility but it still may be a treatable but stubborn URI that just needs extra treatment.
Ask your vet about a chest xray which can usually be done without anaesthesia and should show a characteristic pattern in the lungs if this is an infection that has spread from the top of the respiratory tract, rather than if it is fluid accumulating from the bottom of the lungs because of a heart issue. There are medicines such as bisolvon decongestant that can be prescribed to help clear excess mucous and ease symptoms if an infection is present, or if this was a mild heart issue then a diuretic like furosemide can help clear the fluid and reduce strain on the heart.
So dont panic and assume the worst, please see the vet again and explore these options! I hope your piggy is ok, if they seem well in themselves and are still eating and not losing weight that is a good sign x

 

[PigglePuggle]

Also maybe you could tell us what dose of antibiotic has been prescribed? As I think many dog or cat vets tend to dose based on what they would prescribe for a similarly sized kitten or puppy, and often this underestimates how fast a guinea pig can metabolise medicines- the doses and dosing frequency of many common cat and dog medicines that guinea pigs need and can tolerate are often higher and more often than people might think if they just assume a piggy is like a small cat!

 

[Betsy]

@Betsy is going through this right now with poor grunty honky Dennis!

I am indeed. Dennis is now on his second lot of antibiotics. Baytril didn't work and now we are on to Sulfatrim. Dennis's breathing is only marginally better today in that he grunts and doesn't honk much. We are on Day 3 of Sulfatrim so hoping for a change for the better tomorrow.

 

[PigglePuggle]

I am indeed. Dennis is now on his second lot of antibiotics. Baytril didn't work and now we are on to Sulfatrim. Dennis's breathing is only marginally better today in that he grunts and doesn't honk much. We are on Day 3 of Sulfatrim so hoping for a change for the better tomorrow.

It can be a long job, Blod had 8 days of sulfatrim before we saw any improvement after 2 courses of baytril- and then the vet said to keep the sulfatrim going for a month once we found that something was slowly working, to make sure she stays honk free this time! Blod needs clear lungs because she needs a teethy op soon, nothing too urgent but her teethies are a bit longer on one side than the other and she's started drooling a bit and dropping bits of food, if her lungs stay clear she's having a dental at the start of the Christmas holidays so we are home to syringe feed her if needed and hand feed her tiny bits of veggies and hay...

 

[Cittycat]

Hi, it isnt uncommon for URIs to be a bit persistant and the vet may need to try a different antibiotic or a higher dose of the existing antibiotic before its clears- I recently went through this myself with Blodwen pig, and @Betsy is going through this right now with poor grunty honky Dennis!
No need to panic and assume a heart problem, that is a possibility but it still may be a treatable but stubborn URI that just needs extra treatment.
Ask your vet about a chest xray which can usually be done without anaesthesia and should show a characteristic pattern in the lungs if this is an infection that has spread from the top of the respiratory tract, rather than if it is fluid accumulating from the bottom of the lungs because of a heart issue. There are medicines such as bisolvon decongestant that can be prescribed to help clear excess mucous and ease symptoms if an infection is present, or if this was a mild heart issue then a diuretic like furosemide can help clear the fluid and reduce strain on the heart.
So dont panic and assume the worst, please see the vet again and explore these options! I hope your piggy is ok, if they seem well in themselves and are still eating and not losing weight that is a good sign x

I'm so sorry to hear you've been through this too, but thank you so much for your reply. It's reassured me that I don't need to leap to the worst case scenario immediately, and you've let me know what I need to keep in mind when talking to the vet next time. I'll definitely remember ask about the x-ray. It's interesting you ask about her medication dosage though - the vet disappeared twice during her last appointment to double check he had it right! She's on 0.5 mls Sulfatrim twice a day and also 0.5 mls Metacam (Dog) twice a day. Hopefully that sounds about right? x

 

[Cittycat]

I am indeed. Dennis is now on his second lot of antibiotics. Baytril didn't work and now we are on to Sulfatrim. Dennis's breathing is only marginally better today in that he grunts and doesn't honk much. We are on Day 3 of Sulfatrim so hoping for a change for the better tomorrow.

Sorry to hear you're going through this too! I hope you see the improvement in Dennis you're hoping for very soon! x

 

[Cittycat]

Hazel's occasional hoot is now a constant crackle. I noticed it this morning and have popped back during my lunch hour to check on her - she's still crackling.

I was already booked to see my normal guinea pig vet, but not until next Tuesday as he's away this week. She's still eating, drinking, lively, and maintaining her weight so the vet surgery have said to continue with the Metacam and Sulfatrim until Tuesday, but I'm concerned I'm not seeing an improvement and her breathing is in fact getting worse. Should I be insisting on seeing someone before then as an emergency (it's so tough to see anyone at the moment because of covid) or asking if they can at least try her on Baytril? It breaks my heart to hear her little crackling breaths.

 

[Betsy]

It breaks my heart to hear her little crackling breaths.

I'm the same with Dennis. I have been waiting on a call from the Vet all day. I can't take Dennis in as the Vets is shut cos of a positive Coronavirus test. I have run out of antibiotics for him too!

I hope you can get little Hazel seen promptly.

 

[Cittycat]

I'm the same with Dennis. I have been waiting on a call from the Vet all day. I can't take Dennis in as the Vets is shut cos of a positive Coronavirus test. I have run out of antibiotics for him too!

I hope you can get little Hazel seen promptly.

Thank you! I'm waiting on a callback too. I hope you heard back from your vet this afternoon! Poor little Dennis! Covid is definitely adding a whole new layer of stress and complication to everything.

 

[Betsy]

Thank you! I'm waiting on a callback too. I hope you heard back from your vet this afternoon! Poor little Dennis! Covid is definitely adding a whole new layer of stress and complication to everything.

It certainly is!

 

[Cittycat]

So I have a bit of an update on my crackling little fluff ball. Got to see my normal vet today (well Hazel got to see him, I had to wait in the car) - after we'd had a bit of an up and down week. Hazel had been slowly improving since my last post to the point that on Saturday I was thinking she was all better. Alas, she took a turn for the worse on Sunday and started sounding more congested again. I could hear a bit of an improvement on Monday and then we were off to the vet's today!

She's had her antibiotic changed to Baytril (0.52 mls twice a day) and I'm continuing with the Metacam. My vet wants to try her on this for two weeks in the first instance, but see her back halfway through her new course of antibiotics. If there's no improvement he mentioned combining antibiotics (which I haven't heard of before, and he said comes with a risk...) or doing some investigation to see if it's actually a heart problem. If she is improving he may look to extend her course of antibiotics. I have all my fingers crossed the Baytril will do the trick, although I'm not looking forward to getting her to take it .

 

[Betsy]

I have all my fingers crossed the Baytril will do the trick, although I'm not looking forward to getting her to take it .

Swiftly follow it with something nice. Dennis loved his bit of melon skin afterwards. I think @PigglePuggle used grapes when Blodwen was hooting.

 

[Cittycat]

Swiftly follow it with something nice. Dennis loved his bit of melon skin afterwards.

Ooh, Hazel likes the sound of that! I've failed dreadfully today as her piggie mum because I didn't have anything extra special and tasty to offer her. She had to make do with an extra piece of cucumber. She's not impressed. What type of melon skin do you give Dennis? I've never tried mine with melon before.

Thanks for checking back to see how she's doing btw. I do appreciate it when I know you have Dennis to worry about too. I was so pleased to hear he's been improving!

 

[Betsy]

Melon is guinea pig crack! They love it. They like any melon tbh. A lot of members give water melon rind. I am not a fan of water melon so I have either honeydew, cantaloupe or galia melon. I think Dennis had a small bit of honeydew melon skin as that is what I had at the time. Here is an old video of my herd of 5 before I had had to split them up into a 3 and a 2 attacking some melon.

 

[Rivervixen]

Melon is guinea pig crack! They love it. They like any melon tbh. A lot of members give water melon rind. I am not a fan of water melon so I have either honeydew, cantaloupe or galia melon. I think Dennis had a small bit of honeydew melon skin as that is what I had at the time. Here is an old video of my herd of 5 before I had had to split them up into a 3 and a 2 attacking some melon.

Dennis has the look of pure happiness on his face bless him. Made my morning

 

[Cittycat]

Melon is guinea pig crack! They love it. They like any melon tbh. A lot of members give water melon rind. I am not a fan of water melon so I have either honeydew, cantaloupe or galia melon. I think Dennis had a small bit of honeydew melon skin as that is what I had at the time. Here is an old video of my herd of 5 before I had had to split them up into a 3 and a 2 attacking some melon.

This is the most adorable thing ever! Okay melon is definitely going on tomorrow's shopping list!

 

[Cittycat]

So another update on Hazel. She went back to see the vet last week for her check up. She'd been slowly improving and had reached a point where I couldn't hear anything wrong with her breathing anymore. The vet was really pleased with her and couldn't hear anything wrong when he listened to her chest either. He wanted to keep her on the Baytril he'd previously prescribed for a full month (she's about halfway through that now), but was really positive about her progress.

Well, after four or five days of seeming perfectly fine she had a really hooty episode this evening and is now gently crackling away under a pile of hay. I've never had a guinea pig with a bad URI before. Is this coming and going of symptoms normal or does it point to something else being wrong? She really did worry me tonight - her hooting was as bad as it's ever been, although it did ease off within half an hour or so.

 

[David Piggie Lover]

Hi. Oh my your piggie is giving you worry.
Try to keep calm. . Does piggie stop the noise after food.
Good to know her heart is better.

 

[Cittycat]

Once she starts making the noise then nothing much seems to stop her - she will hoot and grunt and crackle her way through her veggies and hay.

 

[Betsy]

Once she starts making the noise then nothing much seems to stop her - she will hoot and grunt and crackle her way through her veggies and hay.

Dennis is the same. He grunts his way through pellets, forage, hay, syringe feeds, sleep ......

 

[Cittycat]

Dennis is the same. He grunts his way through pellets, forage, hay, syringe feeds, sleep ......

Aww, poor little Dennis! I've been reading his updates. How is he doing with the nebuliser? My sister has a nebuliser that she bought to help one of her budgies. She said I could borrow it for Hazel, but I don't know if it would do any good on it's own. Are you adding something prescribed by your vet to the nebuliser to help Dennis?

Oh. And I have a confession. I've tried my girls with three different types of melon peel and they turned their little noses up at all of them! They're clearly defective guinea pigs.

 

[Betsy]

What?!?!? Your piggies don't like melon!?!?!

The vet prescribed 1 part F10 antiseptic ( NOT F10 disinfectant) to 250 parts water for the nebuliser. See what your vet says and see if they think it will help and what they prescribe before nebulising your piggy.

Dennis doesn't like the nebuliser but I tell him it's for his own good. He doesn't understand why he is put in a small box twice a day.

 

[Cittycat]

What?!?!? Your piggies don't like melon!?!?!

I know, and I was so excited to try them with it! It was very underwhelming.

I will see what my vet thinks about nebulising Hazel. The way her symptoms come and go is driving me crazy, but I do hope Dennis is showing signs of improvement. I did smile at the thought of his puzzled little face as he's popped back into the nebulising box.

 

[Betsy]

I did smile at the thought of his puzzled little face as he's popped back into the nebulising box.

Oh they way he looks at me each time - it breaks my heart! He's obviously thinking "not this tiny little noisy place with steam Mum! I really don't like it Nooooooo!" He always has a cuddle in a blanket when he comes out and some hay or oats to nibble on when he is in his box.

 

[Betsy]

Products – Piggie Parcels is releasing it's Winter Survival Pack soon. It's good for piggies with URI's as soon as it's released I'll be ordering a pack.

 

[Cittycat]

Oh they way he looks at me each time - it breaks my heart! He's obviously thinking "not this tiny little noisy place with steam Mum! I really don't like it Nooooooo!" He always has a cuddle in a blanket when he comes out and some hay or oats to nibble on when he is in his box.

Aww! Bless him! They make you feel so guilty, don't they, I so wish we could explain to them it's for their own good! Hazel is getting more and more cross about taking her yucky medicine by the day. She was trying to bite chunks out of my jumper this evening. Although, she cheered up afterwards when she got a piece of grape.

I'll definitely look out for the Winter Survival pack - thanks for that! Lots of ideas for guinea pig Christmas presents on that site too.

 

[Cittycat]

Hazel has a new problem. I don't know if it's related to the breathing issue or not but I've been noticing her lovely black ear has slowly been developing a greyish tinge over the last few days. She's off back to the vet next week, but what does this look like to other people? Fungal, poor circulation, parasites, something else...?

 

[Cittycat]

Update on Hazel - x-ray and ultrasound have revealed she has an enlarged heart.

She's on Frusol (0.31mls two times a day) and Vetmedin 1.25mg (0.25 tablet two times a day) for the next week - then it's back to see the vet. At which point we're all hoping to see an improvement in her breathing.

 

[Freela]

Once you posted about the grey edge of her ear I was thinking heart... circulatory issues can present like that. Good job spotting it and getting her seen... that would explain the hooting as well. I hope she improves on the heart meds and is feeling much better soon. I personally haven't had a heart pig yet, but when we were researching that possibility with Hadley a couple years ago (turned out to be a persistent chest infection not responding to antibiotics instead), my vet was pretty optimistic about being able to manage things. She's obviously got an attentive owner, best wishes to you both!