Interstitial cystitis or kidney stones?

[Bonnie320121]

Hi, I'm hoping for some help and advice please.
My guinea pig Rosie had a uti at the beginning of May, we woke up to find lots of bloody wees in her cage, we took her to the vets straight away and she was given baytril for 7 days and metacam. The baytril run out after 6 days as the vet didn't give me enough but there was no blood in her wees so I thought it had done the trick. She has been fine since then, there was a few very light pink wees and one slightly red one after some grass but i increased the amount of water I gave her (I syringe feed her water as she doesn't drink very much) and everything seemed fine. The end of June I noticed she was squeaking when she was having a wee, I was unable to take her to the vets I originally took her to as they didn't have any appointments for a week so I took her to a new vet. She examined her and said she was squeaking when she felt by her tummy (I wasn't able to go in whilst she was being examined because of covid) the vet said that it could be kidney stones but gave her 10 days of baytril to rule out an infection, she didn't give me any metacam so I used what was left over from when she first had her uti. Rosie has now finished her 10 day course of baytril and it hasn't made any difference, she still squeaks when she wees and sometimes when she poos. I took her back to the vet yesterday and I also took a urine sample with me. I couldn't see any gritty bits in it or any of the other urine samples I managed to get from Rosie and couldn't feel any gritty bits in it either, but the vet said that just because there wasn't any gritty bits in it that it wasn't kidney stones. After reading lots and lots of threads on here I thought that she may have interstitial cystitis and mentioned it to the vet, she didn't really seem to know that this was something that could affect guinea pigs but after asking, gave me 4 x cystease capsules and some meloxidyl 0.5mg. She told me to give 1/3 of a cystease capsule once a day and 0.2ml of meloxidyl once a day. She also said she would analyse the urine sample and has just called back to say that there are some clumps in it that look like crystals so is recommending Rosie have an anaesthetic and be x rayed. I said I would let her know and wondered if anyone had any experience of this problem and could offer any help as to what to do. Should I get her booked in for an x-ray or try the cystease to see if that makes any difference? As I have only been to this vet twice I'm really not sure how cavvy savvy she is and think I trust more what everyone says on here than what she is saying. How likely is it that she could have kidney stone as opposed to interstitial cystitis? She's always been fed on a low calcium diet, has filtered water, I have changed her food to a Timothy hay based pellet that she has a minimal amount of and she now has Timothy hay, is there anything else I could do?
Also are the dosage for the cystease and meloxidyl right? I gave Rosie her first dose of cystease this morning and she wouldn't have it out of the syringe so I put it on her food and she ate most of it but not all of it so I'm worried she isn't getting enough to make any difference. Can I mix the cystease with anything to make it more palatable?
I was also giving her a few syringes of pro c a day after all the antibiotics she has had, can I continue to give her the pro c along with the cystease and meloxidyl?
Could I put the cystease with the pro c?
So sorry for all the questions and anxiety but I really want to do the right thing by Rosie but really unsure what that is at the moment.
Thank you in advance for any help you can give x

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

Personally, I would go for the x-ray so you and your vet know where you stand and can take it from there; but that is just what I would do with a piggy of mine in your situation.

If there is a stone/sludge issue, then that is best addressed sooner rather than later. Sterile interstitial cystitis can only be diagnoses once all other potential urinary tract problems have been excluded and a longer course of antibiotics (more like 3 weeks) hasn't cleared out any UTI.

 

[Bonnie320121]

Thank you for replying so quickly. In the event an xray rules out any stones/sludge and I ask for a longer course of antibiotics, would I need a stronger antibiotic than baytril?
Also, not sure if you would know but is a 0.2ml dose of meloxidyl once a day enough to keep the pain at bay? Rosie's rather a chunky girl.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you for replying so quickly. In the event an xray rules out any stones/sludge and I ask for a longer course of antibiotics, would I need a stronger antibiotic than baytril?
Also, not sure if you would know but is a 0.2ml dose of meloxidyl once a day enough to keep the pain at bay? Rosie's rather a chunky girl.

If she is still showing signs of pain, then it’s possibly not enough. Piggies ideally need their pain meds twice a day as they metabolise them quite quickly (in around 12 hours, so once a day usually isn’t enough) and can take higher doses if necessary.

 

[Bonnie320121]

Thank you. If I give her two doses a day, should I still keep it at 0.2ml for each dose or increase it? If so would you know what I should give her?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you. If I give her two doses a day, should I still keep it at 0.2ml for each dose or increase it? If so would you know what I should give her?

Your vet needs to tell you how much to give - we might know based on our experiences but it’s not for us to say how much you should give in your situation

 

[Bonnie320121]

OK, thank you.

 

[Bonnie320121]

Thank you. I'm a new piggy owner and it's a massive learning curve. I hadn't thought about kidney stones everything crossed it's the lesser of the two evils

 

[Free Ranger]

Just to say I've had UTIs that were solved with Baytril and others that it didn't touch. It's not so much a 'stronger' antibiotic - sometimes you just need a different one. I've had very high doses of Baytril for 5 days or more standard doses for about 10. Then other UTIs have needed a different AB for nearly 3 weeks (and then it came back within 2 weeks and another 15 or 16 days was needed to shift it - but it went!)

Think back to your first round of antibiotics... they usually take a day or two to make a difference. If her pain and blood was better after a couple of days it indicates that an antibiotic was working so bacteria were likely. If it didn't work this time at the same dose perhaps a different one might.

Sometimes a sow can pass a bladder stone if it's little. But speak to your vet about the pain relief as it doesn't do them any good to hold in the pees... if the pain can be controlled they pee more freely and flush things through. I've just had the same issue with my sow who had an eye problem and the new vet really dug his heels in about 0.2ml once a day (of the weaker 0.5mg/ml painkiller) and I thought 'Sod it' and did twice a day as I've given more in the past under a different vet. It was very frustrating. BTW Is your girl younger or older? I don't know how still she would need to lie to have her x-ray - does she have to be anaesthsetised? My pigs have been tightly swaddled in a towel to hold them still for an x-ray before. Ask your vet about this. And phone up your original vet and ask them too! There is a vet locator list at the top in the green bar if you need to 'shop around' for Rosie.

Be careful about syringing water - you can't really make them drink and they can easily inhale liquids leading to distress and resp infections. On the plus side I think Brum is a soft water area so at least you don't have to worry about calcium in the water? Good Luck little Rosie x

 

[Bonnie320121]

Thank free ranger for your help. I feel like a have a plan now of what I should do. I will definitely ask the vet if she needs an anaesthetic as she's very chilled out and will ask my previous vet for their advice too. Rosie is two, she's a healthy weight as she loves her food so maybe I should put more water on her veggies as syringing water might cause another set of problems. We are in a soft water area but I still filter the water as trying to do everything I possibly can to help her.
Thanks again