Interstitial Cystitis

[Deleted member 114675]

I have put this in the Guinea Pig Chat thread - rather than the health and illness section as , I'd really like to have a chat with other members who have Guinea Pigs with interstitial cystitis (IC).

My boar , Reuben started getting blood in his urine very shortly after I adopted him. Fortunately , he was diagnosed quickly - BUT it has taken a long time to settle - with diet and medication.

I know it is not the fault of the rescue - I only adopt from reputable rescues and his urine was regularly tested there and always clear . So, it is something to do with moving in with me that has triggered it .

The only factors I can think of are ..

Change in environment
Change in companions ( he is now neutered and living with sows)
Stress
Diet

My Guineas are currently on the IC diet - but I would love to talk about what sorts of foods trigger IC . Bess loves tomatoes and I don't want to deny her this treat.

I would also like to talk about what medication everyone is using to maintain IC - and what you give if your Guinea Pig gets a flare up - and how long it takes for flare ups to settle.

 

[Adelle]

Crunchie has IC and it has been a total nightmare.

August 2015- She started having bouts of peeing blood and squeaking when passing it- she was put on septrin and metacam.

I started feeding IC veggies.

The flare ups happened again a few weeks after stopping bothing meds, and each time she was put on a longer course of septrin and metacam until she was on them both for 6 weeks.

She was checked for stones regularly throughout.

It was then apparant that it wasnt infection based, and she was tried with just metacam. The flares wherent anymore frequent.

She was then put on grain free pellets- it made the flares slightly less extreme but they where still as frequent.

Spring 2016 she had further tests as she started to lose weight and her flares where still happening.

It was found she had dental spurs, probably from a reduction in appetite due to bladder pain. Her bladder was found to be extremely thickened and scarred from the constant inflammation. The urine was cultured and there was no infection, so we know thats not whats causing it. But there was alot of calcium oxalate crystals irritating her bladder. She also had bloods taken, to check her kidneys; and they where normal.

In a last attempt to sort things amd prevent another dental being needed, and even worse a bladder flushing op, i took her off pellets altogether, and started her on cystease and cranberry tablets... As well as filtering her water. It was decided she was then to stay on a full dose of metacam twice a day during a flare, and a full dose and a half dose on non flare periods.

She needed another few dentals to get the teeth back into wack but her bladder was much less thickened, even more so when i increased her cystease from 1/2 capsule x2 a day to 1 capsule 2x a day.

Things where steady.. Her weight was steady.. For around 3 months.

she started going outside in the nice weather with fudge and eating grass... She had a massive flare. Bloody urine for 5 days, and stil blood in dipstick another 6 days later. Her metacam was put back to full dose every 12 hours.. And shes still on the septrin on day 15. Her urine now has no blood at all, but the vet said her bladder is still extremely think and painful. Her weight is up and down and iv been syringe feeding to top her up.

Iv been told to give her a few more days and take her back if she doesnt start eating better and becoming more comfortable.

Next stage is a bladder flush, which i dont want to do at 5.5years old but if iv got to then iv got to.

Carrot, tomato, high calcium veg, sugary treats and grass all trigger crunchies issues, as well as forages cotaining dried high calcium herbs.

Cystease at 2 capsules a day, metacam every 12 hours, cranberry supplements, filtered water and no pellets certainly made a difference.

Tried barley gloop in the past but it didnt do much i dont think.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

Can I check what dose of Metacam Fudge is on @Adelle ? I am happy for you to pm me the information if you don't want it disclosed on an open forum.

I was hoping to have Reuben's care transferrred to a local vet but, I had a telephone consultation and vet is reluctant for a guinea pig to be on long term Metacam .

 

[Adelle]

Can I check what dose of Metacam Fudge is on @Adelle ? I am happy for you to pm me the information if you don't want it disclosed on an open forum.

I was hoping to have Reuben's care transferrred to a local vet but, I had a telephone consultation and vet is reluctant for a guinea pig to be on long term Metacam .

Crunchie is on 4 drops (1.5 units or 0.15ml) of dog metacam every 12 hours. My vet usually doses this at a once a day dose but due to crunchies inflamation being so severe we dont have a choice. She was on double dose and some times just a 1.5 dose for 6 months before checking her kidneys and they where fine, and shes 5.5 years old.

Long term metacam isnt ideal but in crunchies case, her bladder would just not be able to function without it and would cause her an extreme amount of pain.

As a comparison, fudge is on 2 drops (half the amount crunchie is on) every 12 hours for arthritis. Fudge is 7.5 years old, on maximum dose of 2 different diuretics for 13 months which causes kidney damage.. As well as the metacam... And her kidneys are still fine.

If its needed, its needed. Thats the way i look at it. x

 

[Deleted member 114675]

If its needed, its needed. Thats the way i look at it. x

. My local vet is worried about side effects from long term Metacam but my priority is to make sure Reuben isn't in pain.

I had cystitis once - and wouldn't wish it on anyone !

 

[eileen]

I'm sorry Reuben is having problems.maybe your specialist vet could guide your local vet,eg...emails,telephone,to assist local vet with keeping best practise,but is more local to you,i have done this with a past piggie.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

I'm sorry Reuben is having problems.maybe your specialist vet could guide your local vet,eg...emails,telephone,to assist local vet with keeping best practise,but is more local to you,i have done this with a past piggie.

That''s a good idea Eileen

 

[Claire W]

My Emma has IC. She was diagnosed last year after we couldn't clear the blood from her urine with antibiotics and a urine culture couldn't grow any bacteria. She had X-rays and scans which showed nothing so reproductive problems and stones, sludge etc were ruled out.

All my piggies are following the IC diet, they have limited Harringtons nuggets, unlimited hay and filtered water.

Emma has a cystease capsule daily and 0.2ml of dog metacam daily increasing to 0.4ml if she is having a squeaky wee episode.

I am concerned about using long term metacam but it's like my vet has said, it's about quality of life rather than quantity and the chances of metacam damaging the kidneys isn't actually as high as what people think.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

Emma has a cystease capsule daily and 0.2ml of metacam daily increasing to
0.4ml if she is having a squeaky wee episode.

I am concerned about using long term metacam but it's like my vet has said, it's about quality of life rather than quantity and the chances of metacam damaging the kidneys isn't actually as high as what people think.

These are similar doses to what my Reuben is taking . I agree fully that the priority is quality of life .

 

[VickiA]

Sorry to hear this Reuben. I hope you can get him comfortable - poor chap.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

I'm sorry Reuben is having problems.maybe your specialist vet could guide your local vet,eg...emails,telephone,to assist local vet with keeping best practise,but is more local to you,i have done this with a past piggie.

Sorry to hear this Reuben. I hope you can get him comfortable - poor chap.

He's not doing too badly thank you - I just know this is going to be a long term issue .

 

[Claire W]

Is Reuben having cystease @PiggyOwner or just metacam?

There is no right or wrong answer in this but it's to do with possible options for Ellen who is currently being treated for a uti but is also diabetic. There is a tiny chance she has IC too but we are currently waiting to find out if metacam is effecting her blood sugars

 

[Deleted member 114675]

Is Reuben having cystease @PiggyOwner or just metacam?

He's on Cystease 1/2 capsule daily - . He's on metacam twice daily . I am hoping to keep him on a maintenance dose of 0.2 mls of metacam and may reduce this dose to daily . When the bleeding was bad , he was on 0.5 mls ( he is a chunky boy !) .

 

[Deleted member 114675]

Anyone noticing if any foods trigger IC?

@Adelle has mentioned ...Carrot, tomato, high calcium veg, sugary treats and grass as well as forages containing dried high calcium herbs.

When the weather was good, I was allowing Reuben to have grass time so, it'll be interesting to see if things get better now he's not getting so much grass.

His IC was really bad after he had a piece of apple.

 

[Adelle]

Anyone noticing if any foods trigger IC?

@Adelle has mentioned ...Carrot, tomato, high calcium veg, sugary treats and grass as well as forages containing dried high calcium herbs.

When the weather was good, I was allowing Reuben to have grass time so, it'll be interesting to see if things get better now he's not getting so much grass.

His IC was really bad after he had a piece of apple.

Citric fruits are also inflamatory triggers but i dont feed them so wouldnt know. I know readigrass should be avoided in bladder pigs, but i think crunchies reaction to grass itself is probably because her case is so severe.

I think it definately depends on the pig. I have an autoimmune disease causing chronic inflammation in my body, and tomato/citric fruits/sugar and processed oils are triggers in people (me included) so its pretty standard but again is individual foods that trigger in different people.

I have done some research tonight and found cranberry to be good for UTI's i.e where bacteria is concerned but is apparantly a trigger in IC in people so i am now stopping this with crunchie and see how she goes.

I have also ordered a bladder support tincture from Galens gardens which is a herbal medicine site.. It has advised dosages for guinea pigs. It contains herbs that have diuretic and antiinflammatory properties.

I need to get this undercontrol as she already has a scarred bladder from the chronic inflammation.. Her case really is severe and this is a last resort.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

It will be interesting to hear how Crunchie gets on with the tincture Adele.

 

[Claire W]

I too am following your story on Crunchie @Adelle and am wishing her the best x

 

[Deleted member 114675]

I made the mistake of giving my guineas a bit of bagged salad " for variety " . Unfortunately, it had spinach in and Reuben has got blood in his wee again. How long ( on average ) does it take for a flare up to settle ?

 

[Adelle]

I made the mistake of giving my guineas a bit of bagged salad " for variety " . Unfortunately, it had spinach in and Reuben has got blood in his wee again. How long ( on average ) does it take for a flare up to settle ?

For crunchie it would usually settle blood wise in about 3-5 days, however lately she has been bleeding on and off for 3 weeks. Sadly she is having a cystotomy op on tuesday now :-(

 

[Deleted member 114675]

For crunchie it would usually settle blood wise in about 3-5 days, however lately she has been bleeding on and off for 3 weeks. Sadly she is having a cystotomy op on tuesday now :-(

Oh - poor Crunchie

 

[Deleted member 114675]

Quick update: Reuben had a urine test today and it's come back ..........


Clear !



This is the best news I've had in ages .


I know I'll need to keep an eye on him - but it's so reassuring to know he can have times when things are settled .

 

[Claire W]

Quick update: Reuben had a urine test today and it's come back ..........


Clear !



This is the best news I've had in ages .


I know I'll need to keep an eye on him - but it's so reassuring to know he can have times when things are settled .

That's great news Emma has blood in her urine every time she has a urine sample tested

 

[Deleted member 114675]

That's great news Emma has blood in her urine every time she has a urine sample tested

 

[Wiebke]

I've had two piggies with IC; both lived past it. I treated with metacam, cystease (to which she thankfully reacted extremely well) and a low calcium diet, as at that time not much was known yet about trigger foods.

IC can last about 1-3 years and eventually goes away on its own. It has thankfully no impact on the logevity of a piggy - Nerys lived to 8 years old and was IC free for the last 3 1/2 years of her life after suffering from it for nearly 3 years.

Caron had a less severe and shorter IC, but was over it after a good year and never had any bladder trouble again in her life.

I hope that that gives you hope? We currently still have no handle on how to tackle IC directly, but knowledge on what works, what to avoid etc. is slowly growing.

PS: The H/I section is still a good place for a discussion like this. We always welcome input from members with personal experiences or special knowledge on any particular issue, just not from people mistaking us for a home treating free-for-all place, pretending they are experts by stealing information from other sources or trying to take over H/I to run it as their own personal fiefdom for their own interests and outside our guidelines - it has happened before, which is why we have the current system with a comparatively tight control to make sure that any advice given is of good quality.
We do not want to be just yet another online place for hip-shot amateur diagnoses but we do also not want to be at the mercy of anybody or any group with ulterior motives ever again after having experienced it all over the years. It is always a fine line to tread, but unfortunately a price we have to pay for being around for as long as we have.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

PS: The H/I section is still a good place for a discussion like this. We always welcome input from members with personal experiences or special knowledge on any particular issue, just not from people mistaking us for a home treating free-for-all place, pretending they are experts by stealing information from other sources or trying to take over H/I to run it as their own personal fiefdom for their own interests and outside our guidelines - it has happened before, which is why we have the current system with a comparatively tight control to make sure that any advice given is of good quality.
We do not want to be just yet another online place for hip-shot amateur diagnoses but we do also not want to be at the mercy of anybody or any group with ulterior motives ever again after having experienced it all over the years. It is always a fine line to tread, but unfortunately a price we have to pay for being around for as long as we have.

I'm enjoying this being in the Guinea Pig chat section . I'm getting a lot of support being able to " have a chat" with fellow members .