Interstitial Cystitis

[Toots33]

Hi,

I've posted a few times about Sven and Elsa's bladder problems which for Sven are still ongoing.

Sven is currently having weekly cartrophen injections and, moduret, Metacam and septrin daily. She's been on septrim for a month and there is still blood in her urine. We've just had the results of the urine culture and there was no bacteria in the urine, blood was present and calcium carbonate crystals.

The exoctic vet is a bit stumped as he thought the medication should have helped to reduce the production of calcium carbonate. The next option that he's suggested is a biopsy of the bladder which we don't feel is the right course of action as it's a major operation for a little animal.

I've been doing my own research on the forum and other sites and I feel that Sven's symptoms seem to point towards interstitial cystitis. We're going for a review of treatment at the vets on Monday and I want to talk to the vet about this and the possible use of cystease or vegan glucosamine to see if that will help. Sven is well in herself, she's eating hay and veg, squeaks very occasionally when weeing, her diet has completely changed to a low oxalate diet and is currently pellet free. She's more active than she's ever been and I'm wondering if that's due to the pain relief. She doesn't drink herself but we syringe filtered water up to five times a day. She also has lots of floor time as I've read that activity can keep the bladder more active.

I've also read of other causes of blood in urine i.e. Arthritis and ovarian cysts that I'm also going to mention to the vet. However I think the presence of crystals in the urine seems to point more to a bladder issue.

I'd be really interested to hear from anyone who has experience of interstitial cystitis and how they manage this or anyone who's had a similar experience with bladder issues so I can get as much from the vet appointment on Monday as possible.

I want to give Sven as pain free and happy life as possible however long that may be for and any suggestions or advice would be welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Hi my bladder pig was treated with Cartrophen injections, potassium citrate & regular low doses of Metacam for 4 years. Has your vet tried Cerenia at all? That can be used for short periods when they have a crisis. My Petal had bladder sludge & a very inflamed bladder for most of her life, it's a matter of managing the condition rather than curing it unfortunately. With females the blood in the urine can be from the ovaries or womb, an ultrasound scan can show changes in the bladder wall & uterus, has your piggy had a recent scan? The urine culture will show nothing because the antibiotics affect the result, they need to be off antibiotics for a couple of weeks first. The symptoms you describe are exactly what happened to my pig, eventually the vet had to do a full hysterectomy because it was early Pyometra, the womb was badly infected & normal antibiotics weren't getting into the soft tissue. Your vet could try Zithromax instead first, although it didn't help my pig in her case & a spay was the only thing that eventually stopped the blood showing. To take a bladder sample your pig will have to be off antibiotcs first as I said & the vet will anaesthetise her before taking a sample with a needle from her bladder then sending that off for culture.

 

[Flutterby]

I can't offer any advice, but I hope you get to the bottom of it and manage to solve her problem.

 

[Adelle]

My sows case was very similar to svens, bouts of blood in urine and sometimes squeaking when weeing, she also had a very thickened and, over time, scarred bladder.

Her culture was also clear, and she too had a lot of crystals but they where calcium oxalate crystals. She was put on a low calcium and pellet free diet like Sven- it helped a bit but she was still having flares.

She also needed 3 dentals over time as her bladder pain was so severe even with Metacam that she would eat less and end up with detail Spurs.

She was put on Septrin with each flare but once the results kept being clear we stopped this as there was no bacteria for it to fight.

She was put on Metacam daily, with a higher dose during a flare which did help but he turning point for her was Cystease. We started on one capsule a day and worked up to twice a day. Her flares where less frequent and less extreme.

Before the Cystease our only option left was to have her bladder flushed which we were going to do... But the calmed down. 18 months since her symptoms started and it seems Crunchie is now rid of her IC. She's back on pellets, can eat herbs and grass hays again without it causing blood in urine. She is on 1/4 dose
Of Metacam that she used to be and down to one capsule of Cystease.. With no issues. She is now also back to 1050g in weight which she hasn't weighed since before her bladder issues, at which she was around 900gs

Don't lose hope x

 

[Toots33]

I can't offer any advice, but I hope you get to the bottom of it and manage to solve her problem.

Thank you ...she's currently happily stuffing her face with hay looking at me as if to say what are you worrying about mum, I'm fine

 

[Flutterby]

Aww bless her! They don't realise how much they worry us sometimes.

 

[Toots33]

My sows case was very similar to svens, bouts of blood in urine and sometimes squeaking when weeing, she also had a very thickened and, over time, scarred bladder.

Her culture was also clear, and she too had a lot of crystals but they where calcium oxalate crystals. She was put on a low calcium and pellet free diet like Sven- it helped a bit but she was still having flares.

She also needed 3 dentals over time as her bladder pain was so severe even with Metacam that she would eat less and end up with detail Spurs.

She was put on Septrin with each flare but once the results kept being clear we stopped this as there was no bacteria for it to fight.

She was put on Metacam daily, with a higher dose during a flare which did help but he turning point for her was Cystease. We started on one capsule a day and worked up to twice a day. Her flares where less frequent and less extreme.

Before the Cystease our only option left was to have her bladder flushed which we were going to do... But the calmed down. 18 months since her symptoms started and it seems Crunchie is now rid of her IC. She's back on pellets, can eat herbs and grass hays again without it causing blood in urine. She is on 1/4 dose
Of Metacam that she used to be and down to one capsule of Cystease.. With no issues. She is now also back to 1050g in weight which she hasn't weighed since before her bladder issues, at which she was around 900gs

Don't lose hope x

Thank you so much for your response. It gives me hope that maybe Cystease will help and I'm definitely going to discuss it with the vet on Monday. It's lovely to hear that Crunchie is doing so well .

What hay did you use when Crunchie was having her problems and what vegetables did you find it best to stick to try and prevent flare ups?

Thanks again

 

[Adelle]

Thank you so much for your response. It gives me hope that maybe Cystease will help and I'm definitely going to discuss it with the vet on Monday. It's lovely to hear that Crunchie is doing so well .

What hay did you use when Crunchie was having her problems and what vegetables did you find it best to stick to try and prevent flare ups?

Thanks again

With crunchie I stuck to strict Timothy hay (ever so slightly lower in calcium than standard meadow but we where desperate) and avoided grassy hays like orchard grass, ings hay, readi grass and actual grass as these all set off massive flares In crunchie. Do bear in mid though that every pig is different and Crunchie was extremely sensitive to foods with a lot of them being triggers.

The recommended low calcium diet for bladder pigs is strictly a small strip of Spring greens and coriander, a chunk of celery, pepper and cucumber all twice a day.. However the spring greens and coriander in particular both caused flares in Crunchie, so just keep a close eye and see what works for your girl.

I also put Crunchie on an oxbow science select urinary supplement, one a day.. Herbal anti inflammatory and diuretic supplement for bladders. Have no idea if it helped, but she enjoyed them and it certainly didn't harm her.

Crunchie was a terrible drinker which meant her bladder wasn't being flushed naturally, probably adding to the problem. I would syringe feed her water several times a day to help. Now her issues seem to be gone, she drinks a decent amount which is probably what's been the turning point too.

Crunchie will be 6 in May so I assumed this would be a lifelong issue but I'm hoping I'm wrong. She will always have a scarred bladder due to it being so chronically inflammed with the IC, but She is so much happier and enjoying being pain free now.

 

[aimzer]

Where do you get your cystease from Adele?

 

[Toots33]

With crunchie I stuck to strict Timothy hay (ever so slightly lower in calcium than standard meadow but we where desperate) and avoided grassy hays like orchard grass, ings hay, readi grass and actual grass as these all set off massive flares In crunchie. Do bear in mid though that every pig is different and Crunchie was extremely sensitive to foods with a lot of them being triggers.

The recommended low calcium diet for bladder pigs is strictly a small strip of Spring greens and coriander, a chunk of celery, pepper and cucumber all twice a day.. However the spring greens and coriander in particular both caused flares in Crunchie, so just keep a close eye and see what works for your girl.

I also put Crunchie on an oxbow science select urinary supplement, one a day.. Herbal anti inflammatory and diuretic supplement for bladders. Have no idea if it helped, but she enjoyed them and it certainly didn't harm her.

Crunchie was a terrible drinker which meant her bladder wasn't being flushed naturally, probably adding to the problem. I would syringe feed her water several times a day to help. Now her issues seem to be gone, she drinks a decent amount which is probably what's been the turning point too.

Crunchie will be 6 in May so I assumed this would be a lifelong issue but I'm hoping I'm wrong. She will always have a scarred bladder due to it being so chronically inflammed with the IC, but She is so much happier and enjoying being pain free now.

That's great thank you. We feed her Timothy hay so I think I'm on the right track with that. She did have a small piece of broccoli yesterday which I think might have triggered a flare up so that's now off the list too. The diet that we feed her is the same as what you mentioned but without coriander as she won't eat it. She also doesn't drink and we have to syringe feed her water throughout the day. She happily takes it from us but will very rarely drink from the bottle.

It's lovely to hear that Crunchie is 6 as Sven is only 2 and we felt quite deflated when we got the results last night as it felt like she'd been written off. We're certainly not giving up on her.

 

[Adelle]

Where do you get your cystease from Adele?

I get mines from Viovet, Feliway Cystease Capsules. Open the capsule and empty the contents out, add 1 ml water, mix and draw up in a syringe. It goes gloopy like cornstarch and water x

 

[Toots33]

Hi my bladder pig was treated with Cartrophen injections, potassium citrate & regular low doses of Metacam for 4 years. Has your vet tried Cerenia at all? That can be used for short periods when they have a crisis. My Petal had bladder sludge & a very inflamed bladder for most of her life, it's a matter of managing the condition rather than curing it unfortunately. With females the blood in the urine can be from the ovaries or womb, an ultrasound scan can show changes in the bladder wall & uterus, has your piggy had a recent scan? The urine culture will show nothing because the antibiotics affect the result, they need to be off antibiotics for a couple of weeks first. The symptoms you describe are exactly what happened to my pig, eventually the vet had to do a full hysterectomy because it was early Pyometra, the womb was badly infected & normal antibiotics weren't getting into the soft tissue. Your vet could try Zithromax instead first, although it didn't help my pig in her case & a spay was the only thing that eventually stopped the blood showing. To take a bladder sample your pig will have to be off antibiotcs first as I said & the vet will anaesthetise her before taking a sample with a needle from her bladder then sending that off for culture.

 

[Toots33]

Hi,

I'm sorry I didn't reply to this yesterday.

Thanks so much for your response. We're going to show all of this to the vet tomorrow and get their advice as I feel that there are so many things to consider.

The vet has been really good at listening to ours concerns and suggestions so we might need a lengthy appointment tomorrow

 

[Toots33]

Hi my bladder pig was treated with Cartrophen injections, potassium citrate & regular low doses of Metacam for 4 years. Has your vet tried Cerenia at all? That can be used for short periods when they have a crisis. My Petal had bladder sludge & a very inflamed bladder for most of her life, it's a matter of managing the condition rather than curing it unfortunately. With females the blood in the urine can be from the ovaries or womb, an ultrasound scan can show changes in the bladder wall & uterus, has your piggy had a recent scan? The urine culture will show nothing because the antibiotics affect the result, they need to be off antibiotics for a couple of weeks first. The symptoms you describe are exactly what happened to my pig, eventually the vet had to do a full hysterectomy because it was early Pyometra, the womb was badly infected & normal antibiotics weren't getting into the soft tissue. Your vet could try Zithromax instead first, although it didn't help my pig in her case & a spay was the only thing that eventually stopped the blood showing. To take a bladder sample your pig will have to be off antibiotcs first as I said & the vet will anaesthetise her before taking a sample with a needle from her bladder then sending that off for culture.

Hi,

I'm sorry I didn't reply to this yesterday, it seems to go a bit strange when I try and reply so I think I've done it twice now

Thanks so much for your response. We're going to show all of this to the vet tomorrow and get their advice as I feel that there are so many things to consider.

The vet has been really good at listening to our concerns and suggestions so we might need a lengthy appointment tomorrow

 

[Toots33]

Poor Sven has been at the vets all day today after we saw lots of blood in her urine last night. We were very worried and it frightened us a lot but she was still active and eating. Of course her sister Elsa went along too plus Elsa has a hay poke injury that had to followed up today anyway .

Sven has had repeat x rays and ultrasounds to double check for stones. There are no stones and the vet did not think there were any ovarian cysts or signs of pyrometra. Given the results of the urine culture, they definitely think it's a bladder issue.

The vet is happy for us to try cystease initially and we'll attend regular check ups taking our urine samples with us to monitor progress. They also talked about potassium citrate but we're going to try one thing at a time to try and find out what works for Sven.

Sven really is a "guinea pig" at the moment but we'll give anything a go as long as it won't cause her any more pain. We just have to run things past the vet first due to the different medication she's taking as we don't want one medication to prevent another one from working.

Thank you for all your help and advice Adelle and Poppy's mum. It really helped us with our day trip to the vets today. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Toots33]

Hi,

Just wanted to provide an update regarding Sven.

She's been having one capsule per day of cystease for about 2 1/2 weeks now and this morning her urine was tested for the first time since her last urine culture which had lots of blood in it. Guess what? NO BLOOD

The vet was really pleased and has said we can start reducing her Metacam dosage to once a day instead of twice. She can also reduce her cartrophen injections to monthly and will stay on daily moduret and a strict diet along with the daily cystease.

We are so thrilled and just wanted to say a big thank you to @Adelle and @Poppy'sMum for your advice. We know this will be an ongoing condition that we need to mange but great progress so far after such a long journey

Big thank you from Sven too x x

 

[Adelle]

Hi,

Just wanted to provide an update regarding Sven.

She's been having one capsule per day of cystease for about 2 1/2 weeks now and this morning her urine was tested for the first time since her last urine culture which had lots of blood in it. Guess what? NO BLOOD

The vet was really pleased and has said we can start reducing her Metacam dosage to once a day instead of twice. She can also reduce her cartrophen injections to monthly and will stay on daily moduret and a strict diet along with the daily cystease.

We are so thrilled and just wanted to say a big thank you to @Adelle and @Poppy'sMum for your advice. We know this will be an ongoing condition that we need to mange but great progress so far after such a long journey

Big thank you from Sven too x x

Great news!

 

[Poppy'sMum]

Oh wow that's good news & you are welcome for any help I was able to give It will be a matter of maintaining her comfort really, a small daily dose of Metacam, the Cartrophen injections, Cystease, maybe Potassium Citrate & Cerenia for flare ups. Comfort is the key, so you might need to increase the Metacam to twice a day if you feel she is in discomfort; I used to be able to tell if Petal was having a flare up from the position of her ears, they were lower on her head if she was in pain. We successfully treated her for severe bladder infections for 4 years, when she passed away from pneumonia, which was unrelated x