Introducing 2 new guinea-pigs with a 2 year old bereaved sow!

[WoodleyGP]

Hi all,
I posted last week in the health & illness section because my 2 year old teddy sow, Cuddles, ended up having a mouth abscess & tumour & sadly had to be put to sleep. Honey our other 2 year old sow has been left bereaved, which was worrying me because she should still have many years left in her and guinea-pigs thrive in groups.

Today I managed to collect 2 new babies as company for Honey. I didn't think this would be possible as I was supposed to be in hospital but they cancelled at the 24th hour. So all that stressing getting to the vet (thankfully hubby stepped in) for the ill one needn't have happened (long story!)

I was told by a reputable breeder it was ok to introduce the babies straight into the cage but I'm wary. I have put a cage near the hutch so that the older one can get a feel first. Does this seem like a good plan? I opted for babies because our older sow was the dominant one and I didn't want any issue with dominant behaviour. Hopefully the little ones will be less so!

As you can see from photos the older one is taking to the babies quite well. She has sniffed them out and licked at them but then she did a bit of teeth chattering and so did one of the babies so I've separated them for now. Xx

 

[Piggies&buns]

I'm sorry to hear your surgery was cancelled.

No it is not a good idea to put new piggies directly into the cage of an existing piggy - this will be seen as a territory invasion and could use a fight. There is a specific bonding process which needs to be followed.
You can have the two new piggies living alongside Honey but it is not an indication of how things will go when you do carry out the bonding process - ie in the neural territory for several hours.

Any bonding must be done on neutral territory. You find a space your original piggy does not see as her own territory (if they are indoor piggies), then a bathroom or kitchen floor for example. You put all the Piggies into this area for several hours with no hides (only a pile of hay and water). During this time they will go through the first stages of acceptance and forming a relationship. If things go well, you will need to thoroughly clean out the hutch they are all to live in so the original piggy does not see it as her territory. You can add in hides into the cage (not the bonding pen) but only hides with two exits and again, ideally ones which your original piggy will not view as her own territory.
After several hours in the bonding pen you can move them all into the cage together to begin their lives together. It will take around two weeks for a hierarchy to be fully formed and during this time you will see lots of dominance.
Bonding is a one time process - all or nothing, put them in the bonding pen and see it through to conclusion. You cant have them meet and then separate and then meet again as that can hamper the process meaning they never form a relationship which causes stress to them.
You are going to see dominance behaviours and that is absolutely fine but it is important to know what are good signs and what are bad signs so that you dont inadvertently step in too soon and separate them unnecessarily.
(In fear aggressive sows, bonding will need to be done more slowly)

While two youngsters will not challenge your older sow for dominance, any meeting does come down to mutual liking and character compatibility so with an on spec bonding such as this it is always a case of hope for the best for prepare fo the worst. The worse being a failed bonding and that they will need to live permanently separately.

Ensure your hutch is big enough for three piggies - that is a recommended size of 6ft x 2ft

The guide below explains the process which needs to take place for a bonding.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

 

[Wiebke]

Hi all,
I posted last week in the health & illness section because my 2 year old teddy sow, Cuddles, ended up having a mouth abscess & tumour & sadly had to be put to sleep. Honey our other 2 year old sow has been left bereaved, which was worrying me because she should still have many years left in her and guinea-pigs thrive in groups.

Today I managed to collect 2 new babies as company for Honey. I didn't think this would be possible as I was supposed to be in hospital but they cancelled at the 24th hour. So all that stressing getting to the vet (thankfully hubby stepped in) for the ill one needn't have happened (long story!)

I was told by a reputable breeder it was ok to introduce the babies straight into the cage but I'm wary. I have put a cage near the hutch so that the older one can get a feel first. Does this seem like a good plan? I opted for babies because our older sow was the dominant one and I didn't want any issue with dominant behaviour. Hopefully the little ones will be less so!

As you can see from photos the older one is taking to the babies quite well. She has sniffed them out and licked at them but then she did a bit of teeth chattering and so did one of the babies so I've separated them for now. Xx

Hi!

We strongly recommend to do intros on neutral ground if in any doubt - whether that is a run in- or outdoors or even a bathtub or shower floor with an old beach towel in a pinch. Some piggies can be a rather territorial; especially the more fearful and insecure ones that have been bonded with their deceased mate from very young and can then overreact in terms of dominance. Putting piggies into a cage can be perceived as an invasion and the invading piggies will as a reaction be on their defence from the word go. It doesn't happen in all cases but when it does so, it is a recipe for disaster. Unlike what many people tell you, babies are not necessarily always accepted. We have seen enough cases to the contrary on here and in our experiences with bereaved piggies of our own.
Sticking a piggy of any age in a cage is not a good idea.

We recommend to introduce babies pretty straight away as they are desperate for company and treat the newly bonded pair/group for any transmittable problems with any piggies under 4 months.

Here is our full step-by-step bonding guide,which guides you through all phases (including the ca. 2 weeks post-intro dominance phase) with the attendant behaviours and dynamics and also has chapters on baby and sow bonding.
Here is the link: Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Our sow guide also has a chapter on typical sow dominance behaviours, which you are bound to see in the coming weeks: Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

 

[WoodleyGP]

I'm sorry to hear your surgery was cancelled.

No it is not a good idea to put new piggies directly into the cage of an existing piggy - this will be seen as a territory invasion and could use a fight. There is a specific bonding process which needs to be followed.
You can have the two new piggies living alongside Honey but it is not an indication of how things will go when you do carry out the bonding process - ie in the neural territory for several hours.

Any bonding must be done on neutral territory. You find a space your original piggy does not see as her own territory (if they are indoor piggies), then a bathroom or kitchen floor for example. You put all the Piggies into this area for several hours with no hides (only a pile of hay and water). During this time they will go through the first stages of acceptance and forming a relationship. If things go well, you will need to thoroughly clean out the hutch they are all to live in so the original piggy does not see it as her territory. You can add in hides into the cage (not the bonding pen) but only hides with two exits and again, ideally ones which your original piggy will not view as her own territory.
After several hours in the bonding pen you can move them all into the cage together to begin their lives together. It will take around two weeks for a hierarchy to be fully formed and during this time you will see lots of dominance.
Bonding is a one time process - all or nothing, put them in the bonding pen and see it through to conclusion. You cant have them meet and then separate and then meet again as that can hamper the process meaning they never form a relationship which causes stress to them.
You are going to see dominance behaviours and that is absolutely fine but it is important to know what are good signs and what are bad signs so that you dont inadvertently step in too soon and separate them unnecessarily.
(In fear aggressive sows, bonding will need to be done more slowly)

While two youngsters will not challenge your older sow for dominance, any meeting does come down to mutual liking and character compatibility so with an on spec bonding such as this it is always a case of hope for the best for prepare fo the worst. The worse being a failed bonding and that they will need to live permanently separately.

Ensure your hutch is big enough for three piggies - that is a recommended size of 6ft x 2ft

The guide below explains the process which needs to take place for a bonding.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

 

[WoodleyGP]

Hi Piggies & buns,
Thanks for your advice. Neutral territory makes sense. And also not yo-yoing between meeting and separation makes sense. I have literally only just got the new ones home so I'm glad I got this advice early. The cage is huge. I had my husband build one as the larger ones are difficult to come by. I agree guinea-pigs need lot of space. I will take your advice on board and I have cleaned the cage/run. Thank you! X

 

[WoodleyGP]

Hi!

We strongly recommend to do intros on neutral ground if in any doubt - whether that is a run in- or outdoors or even a bathtub or shower floor with an old beach towel in a pinch. Some piggies can be a rather territorial; especially the more fearful and insecure ones that have been bonded with their deceased mate from very young and can then overreact in terms of dominance. Putting piggies into a cage can be perceived as an invasion and the invading piggies will as a reaction be on their defence from the word go. It doesn't happen in all cases but when it does so, it is a recipe for disaster. Unlike what many people tell you, babies are not necessarily always accepted. We have seen enough cases to the contrary on here and in our experiences with bereaved piggies of our own.
Sticking a piggy of any age in a cage is not a good idea.

We recommend to introduce babies pretty straight away as they are desperate for company and treat the newly bonded pair/group for any transmittable problems with any piggies under 4 months.

Here is our full step-by-step bonding guide,which guides you through all phases (including the ca. 2 weeks post-intro dominance phase) with the attendant behaviours and dynamics and also has chapters on baby and sow bonding.
Here is the link: Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Our sow guide also has a chapter on typical sow dominance behaviours, which you are bound to see in the coming weeks: Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

Thank you, Wiebke!

I will take a look through these guides. Thank you for your advice on this, I appreciate this. X

 

[Wiebke]

PS: Here is our link for the most common problems that can come with piggies not from a good welfare standard rescue with mandatory quarantine. Welfare regulations in the breeder world do unfortunately only cover shows but not conditions and practices at home, which cannot be necessarily up to RSPCA welfare recommendations (and sadly often aren't). There are however a few shining examples to the contrary but you will often only find out what you have been dealing with afterwards.
New Guinea Pig Problems: Sexing & Pregnancy; URI, Ringworm & Parasites; Vet Checks & Customer Rights

 

[Siikibam]

As they are in a pair, you can quarantine them in a separate room for two weeks. How old are they? I would also recommend you double check that they are both sows. I would also book them in for a vet check in a weeks’ time.

When introducing, you don’t put straight into the sow’s cage as it can be seen as an invasion. Bonding needs to be in a neutral area with a pile of hay (and veg) and no hides. The other thing is you can’t put them together then separate them. If you are bonding you need to do so and see it out.

Have a read of the guides below and see.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[Siikibam]

As well as the fabulous advice above, I would strongly recommend you double check the sex of the new piggies and get them booked in with a vet in a weeks’ time.

 

[WoodleyGP]

As they are in a pair, you can quarantine them in a separate room for two weeks. How old are they? I would also recommend you double check that they are both sows. I would also book them in for a vet check in a weeks’ time.

When introducing, you don’t put straight into the sow’s cage as it can be seen as an invasion. Bonding needs to be in a neutral area with a pile of hay (and veg) and no hides. The other thing is you can’t put them together then separate them. If you are bonding you need to do so and see it out.

Have a read of the guides below and see.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

The babies are just over 6 weeks and the bereaved one is over 2 years. They are bonding as we speak and seem to be getting on quite well together. Thanks for the advice. X

 

[Piggies&buns]

You wouldnt want to quarantine them at such a young age (piggies under four months need to be bonded straight away)

Keep us posted on how things go!

 

[WoodleyGP]

Honey (2 year old sow) seems to be licking around the bottom area of both babies. They don't seem phased. I'm guessing it is a positive bonding experience. Maybe a scent thing? They're all eating happily and washing their little faces and also a bit of popcorning from the youngsters.

 

[Piggies&buns]

All sounds very positive! Great news!

 

[Deleted member 146903]

We got a couple of babies as company for our bereaved sow some weeks ago. We didn't know about the need to introduce them in neutral territory, so we didn't, but it worked out anyway. (It does make sense, though. We'll try to add a neutered boar to the flock in a few weeks, and that introduction will be done in a different room).

There was a fair bit of rumbling, teeth chattering, chasing, etc for the first 1-2 weeks, but never anything serious and things are much calmer now. They all get along well, although the older sow definitely has a favorite.

There were times when we felt sorry for a baby being chased, but we kept away and let them get on with it. We just weighed the babies daily to make sure that they put on weight as expected.

Good luck, hope it all works out!

 

[Merab]

Can’t add to the bonding advice except to say congratulations on your 2 new additions and hope the bonding works well.
When Merab was left alone I got a young pair of sows and the bonding was so easy as Merab was desperate for the company.
Hope yours works out as easily.

So sorry your surgery was cancelled at the last minute - that is so frustrating when you psych yourself up for is and rearrange your life to get it done.
Hope they get you a new date soon

 

[WoodleyGP]

We got a couple of babies as company for our bereaved sow some weeks ago. We didn't know about the need to introduce them in neutral territory, so we didn't, but it worked out anyway. (It does make sense, though. We'll try to add a neutered boar to the flock in a few weeks, and that introduction will be done in a different room).

There was a fair bit of rumbling, teeth chattering, chasing, etc for the first 1-2 weeks, but never anything serious and things are much calmer now. They all get along well, although the older sow definitely has a favorite.

There were times when we felt sorry for a baby being chased, but we kept away and let them get on with it. We just weighed the babies daily to make sure that they put on weight as expected.

Good luck, hope it all works ou

We got a couple of babies as company for our bereaved sow some weeks ago. We didn't know about the need to introduce them in neutral territory, so we didn't, but it worked out anyway. (It does make sense, though. We'll try to add a neutered boar to the flock in a few weeks, and that introduction will be done in a different room).

There was a fair bit of rumbling, teeth chattering, chasing, etc for the first 1-2 weeks, but never anything serious and things are much calmer now. They all get along well, although the older sow definitely has a favorite.

There were times when we felt sorry for a baby being chased, but we kept away and let them get on with it. We just weighed the babies daily to make sure that they put on weight as expected.

Good luck, hope it all works out!

Thanks for sharing your story, Sikorsky!
It's good to hear how it went with other guinea-pig families. All the best with introducing your boar. X

 

[WoodleyGP]

Can’t add to the bonding advice except to say congratulations on your 2 new additions and hope the bonding works well.
When Merab was left alone I got a young pair of sows and the bonding was so easy as Merab was desperate for the company.
Hope yours works out as easily.

So sorry your surgery was cancelled at the last minute - that is so frustrating when you psych yourself up for is and rearrange your life to get it done.
Hope they get you a new date soon

Thank you! I'm glad your bonding experience went really well. I am really pleased with how today has gone. They are all getting on so well and eating well. Let's hope it continues. Here's to happy guinea-pigs! Thanks for the well wishes too! Here's to a great weekend for all! X

 

[Stewybus]

I do lots of this type of bonding ie babies with adults. Chdcking the sex of the babies is a must as lots of breeders get this wrong. No quarantine for babies unless there is an obvious problem. A neutral area is always best but you can often get away with bonding in the older girls cage especial if the babies have been transported home with hay in which will have their scent on and can be scattered around the older girls cage. A few veggie treats or a little grass should get them eating together then it's just a case of watching them to see that everything is going well. Good luck

 

[WoodleyGP]

I do lots of this type of bonding ie babies with adults. Chdcking the sex of the babies is a must as lots of breeders get this wrong. No quarantine for babies unless there is an obvious problem. A neutral area is always best but you can often get away with bonding in the older girls cage especial if the babies have been transported home with hay in which will have their scent on and can be scattered around the older girls cage. A few veggie treats or a little grass should get them eating together then it's just a case of watching them to see that everything is going well. Good luck

Thanks for sharing your advice! I have just transferred them all to the cage and it seems to be ok. The older one has taken to them very well, like they are her own. They are still happily munching away. I am confident they are both females. The breeder is very experienced. Part of me wishes they have it wrong so there's more babies but no, pretty confident they have that right! X