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Is it against the law to give dosages - herbal drugs.

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Thought I should expand so people know I was asking - I found a herbal site and it was giving dosages for Guinea Pigs. Now this is all well and good but if they haven't tried the drug on the Guinea Pig with the illness how can they give a dosage or know it works?
 
flintstones said:
Thought I should expand so people know I was asking - I found a herbal site and it was giving dosages for Guinea Pigs. Now this is all well and good but if they haven't tried the drug on the Guinea Pig with the illness how can they give a dosage or know it works?
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The short answer hun is they can't. I personally wouldn't try it.
 
I emailed the company to ask how they can give dosages - I'm sure it's against the law if it's not tested will see if they reply.
 
I'm guessing the products are probably pretty safe, so the dosages are safe (probably, but I don't know what they are), but that doesn't mean they'll work or do anything to help really.
 
CiaraPatricia said:
I'm guessing the products are probably pretty safe, so the dosages are safe (probably, but I don't know what they are), but that doesn't mean they'll work or do anything to help really.
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To be fair what they are claiming is a bit odd they have a Guinea Pig dose for a Guinea Pig suffering from Cushings disease - There hasn't been a pigs in the uk 'veterinary world' diagnosed except Vienna and they didn't use a herbal drug. What I'm intrigued by is the fact they say Guinea Pigs can get Cushings and have a dosage - I do wonder where the information has came from and I did ask them.
 
you have to be reeeally careful with herbal stuff - some of it works, and thus can be dangerous if wrong! The only way I can see that they could have tested it is by trial and error, which is something I certainly wouldn't advocate! Do you have a link to the site? I'm quite interested in seeing what they're promoting! You can pm it to me if you don't think it's safe to publicise, which it sounds like it might not be!
 
Amanda1801 said:
you have to be reeeally careful with herbal stuff - some of it works, and thus can be dangerous if wrong! The only way I can see that they could have tested it is by trial and error, which is something I certainly wouldn't advocate! Do you have a link to the site? I'm quite interested in seeing what they're promoting! You can pm it to me if you don't think it's safe to publicise, which it sounds like it might not be!
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I'm not going to publicise the site as I don't want them getting sudden hits and coming back to this thread before I get my answer :)).

Some of the products seem a bit to good to be true.
 
I'd love to see the site too. Just to see what they recommend for different illnesses . . . not that I would use them, unless they were actually recommended by an expert in small animals :)
 
Don't try it. It may kill or harm your piggies if it has not been tested. When you get your awnser can you post the link to the site?
 
I wasn't going to try it on my animals I just wanted to know if it was legal to give dosages without testing it.
 
Drugs prescribed for small animals by vets are often not licenced for use on them. Small pets, like the rodent group tend to make up a very tiny proportion of the market, so it isn't profitable for drugs companies to test on them. Obviously I mean testing for the drugs suitability to treat a particular condition in a particular animal, rather then the other type of animal testing. Many drugs given to smaller animals have only been licenced for popular pets like dogs and cats. I have a skin cream that the vet gave my for my african pygmy doormouse, its licenced for dogs, and not rodents.

Herbal stuff for humans isn't subject to anything close to the same level of regulation as prescription drugs, I imagine its the same for the small animal drugs.
 
redd1800 said:
Drugs prescribed for small animals by vets are often not licenced for use on them. Small pets, like the rodent group tend to make up a very tiny proportion of the market, so it isn't profitable for drugs companies to test on them. Obviously I mean testing for the drugs suitability to treat a particular condition in a particular animal, rather then the other type of animal testing. Many drugs given to smaller animals have only been licenced for popular pets like dogs and cats. I have a skin cream that the vet gave my for my african pygmy doormouse, its licenced for dogs, and not rodents.

Herbal stuff for humans isn't subject to anything close to the same level of regulation as prescription drugs, I imagine its the same for the small animal drugs.
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Yes - I understand this but vets don't often they know the dose it's more trial and error this site is telling you the dose.
 
redd1800 said:
Drugs prescribed for small animals by vets are often not licenced for use on them. Small pets, like the rodent group tend to make up a very tiny proportion of the market, so it isn't profitable for drugs companies to test on them. Obviously I mean testing for the drugs suitability to treat a particular condition in a particular animal, rather then the other type of animal testing. Many drugs given to smaller animals have only been licenced for popular pets like dogs and cats. I have a skin cream that the vet gave my for my african pygmy doormouse, its licenced for dogs, and not rodents.

Herbal stuff for humans isn't subject to anything close to the same level of regulation as prescription drugs, I imagine its the same for the small animal drugs.
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Only a vet can give prescription medications, licensed or not. Any idiot can make up a herbal dose and dish it out
 
Peter Gurney the great guinea pig guru (now deceased) was a retired vet and he was actually pro herbal remedies and he had a remedy for treating fungal infections in guinea pigs using neem oil and carrier oil. It is actually quite interesting to read his views on vets and their misdiagnosis of skin problems in guinea pigs.

Anyway, herbal rememdies used on skin is generally harmless, i would be worried about giving it as a oral intake, i dont think that herbal remedies are governed by law because as i said in humans they are quite harmless.

Quite an interesting debate though because i have tried the Peter Gurney fungal recipe on my own pigs in the past and although they smealt like a chinese restaurant for a few days, it did seem to do the trick, although i would always recommend a vet and would have taken mine if things had not improved xx
 
JoBo said:
Peter Gurney the great guinea pig guru (now deceased) was a retired vet and he was actually pro herbal remedies and he had a remedy for treating fungal infections in guinea pigs using neem oil and carrier oil. It is actually quite interesting to read his views on vets and their misdiagnosis of skin problems in guinea pigs.

Anyway, herbal rememdies used on skin is generally harmless, i would be worried about giving it as a oral intake, i dont think that herbal remedies are governed by law because as i said in humans they are quite harmless.

Quite an interesting debate though because i have tried the Peter Gurney fungal recipe on my own pigs in the past and although they smealt like a chinese restaurant for a few days, it did seem to do the trick, although i would always recommend a vet and would have taken mine if things had not improved xx
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Herbal stuff isn't harmless. Take too much and you've got serious stuff going on. Homeopathy on the other hand is harmless
 
JoBo said:
Peter Gurney the great guinea pig guru (now deceased) was a retired vet and he was actually pro herbal remedies and he had a remedy for treating fungal infections in guinea pigs using neem oil and carrier oil. It is actually quite interesting to read his views on vets and their misdiagnosis of skin problems in guinea pigs.
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Afaik he wasn't a vet, I thought after leaving the Navy he became a lorry & bus driver but had to quit due to ill health?
 
Bailey said:
Afaik he wasn't a vet, I thought after leaving the Navy he became a lorry & bus driver but had to quit due to ill health?
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Yeah I don't think he was a vet either, just loads of experience with pigs, mainly learned over the years through trial and error as vets were a LOT less knowledgeable back then...

Personally I think that herbal treatments should not be taken lightly, especially for pigs. They can have great effects... I would only try on the recommendations of someone I trusted like my vet, or Peter Gurney or some other very pig savvy person.
 
herbal remedies even for humans can have a great effect on the body, you would think a natural herbal remedy would be harmless but this is not the case.

St johns wort for humans is herbal but it is powerful enough to interfere with contraception pills etc

It can be powerful stuff and I would think giving it to animals when not tested could be dangerous:(
 
Just to Clarify - I wanted to know if it was illegal for them to advise dosages as I'm fairly certain the herb they are advising has not been tested on Guinea Pigs, so therefore the information they are supplying maybe incorrect.
 
flintstones said:
Just to Clarify - I wanted to know if it was illegal for them to advise dosages as I'm fairly certain the herb they are advising has not been tested on Guinea Pigs, so therefore the information they are supplying maybe incorrect.
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Yes sorry I went off on a bit of a tangent there and didn’t really answer the question.

I don’t think it's illegal as herbal remedies are not regulated in the same way traditional drugs.

That does not mean to say that the information is correct thought - as you have quite rightly pointed out how can they have tested it with no pig having been diagnosed with this condition...

It's quite shocking really that they are making such bold claims!
 
flintstones said:
Just to Clarify - I wanted to know if it was illegal for them to advise dosages as I'm fairly certain the herb they are advising has not been tested on Guinea Pigs, so therefore the information they are supplying maybe incorrect.
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I think the answer you're looking for is yes, it's legal. You don't need a license to give someone parsley, or any other herb. Is it safe? Probably not...
 
Bailey said:
Afaik he wasn't a vet, I thought after leaving the Navy he became a lorry & bus driver but had to quit due to ill health?
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weird i am sure that i read somewhere that he was a vet, been a long time since i did read about him though, i do agree though that i would not play around with herbal remedies unless i had been advised first by an expert such as him or a vet.

I am a paediatric nurse and many of the drugs that we give to children on a regular and common basis are not licenced for them, it does not mean that it is not safe as long as the dosage is right.

I think that advise from an expert is key here and i would use remedies for small ailments such as skin problems if i thought it would do the trick. I really dont know about the dosage query, there may be some calculation that they have used to work out the dosages without having to test it first but i really could not say xx

Again though quite an interesting subject to discuss xx

sorry if this has posted more than once because my internet keeps kicking me out when i press post xx
 
The information they are giving out is wrong. I have my reply and I am certain they have no clinical evidence the claims are completely false.
 
Agree, very very worrying if someone less aware got hold of this info...Jo would you PM me the site? I want to talk to my OH about the legalities of this, he is a web geek and knows a lot about what you can legally stick on the web these days (new OFCOM regs have come in recently)

Re Peter Guerny, he wasn't a vet AFAIK, but had over 70 piggies, and as my vet told me today had them trained so when he rang a bell they all wheeked amongst other things! My vet new him personally and learnt an awful lot from him, hence her being very cavy savvy.
 
Doeylicious said:
Agree, very very worrying if someone less aware got hold of this info...Jo would you PM me the site? I want to talk to my OH about the legalities of this, he is a web geek and knows a lot about what you can legally stick on the web these days (new OFCOM regs have come in recently)

Re Peter Guerny, he wasn't a vet AFAIK, but had over 70 piggies, and as my vet told me today had them trained so when he rang a bell they all wheeked amongst other things! My vet new him personally and learnt an awful lot from him, hence her being very cavy savvy.
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The new EU regulations, that are set to come in. Should put a stop to these sites.

Unfortunately with herbal medicine if people want to try it they can - but no one actually know's what is in it or what effects it will have if any.
 
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