Is Septrin Needed For Cystitis Caused By Stress?

[Lily & Rose]

My guinea pig, Lily, has been taking Septrin (0.7ml twice a day) for the last 7 days. She is also taking 0.4ml of Loxicom. A urine sample was taken at the vets and was sent away for testing, which showed no bacterial growth. The vet thinks that Lily's cystitis must be caused by stress, which I think too, as it always seems to coincide with stressful situations, such as her sister dying and bonding with her new cagemate. This has all happened within the last 7 weeks and Lily has had cystitis on and off for the whole of that time. Lily first started getting cystitis last April and that was after a mild respiratory infection and I was told that the stress of that probably brought the Cystitis on.

The vet advised me to give Lily Septrin for about a week, but if she is still bleeding to give it to her for longer. I really would like to stop the Septrin as soon as possible, as when the vet prescribed it, she wrote the wrong dosage down, so Lily had double the amount on one of the days. I have been worrying constantly since then about what affect this has had on Lily. She seems fine, but I still keep worrying. I won't be going back to that vet again.

Lily still squeaks occasionally when going to the toilet, but when I tested her urine yesterday there was less blood than before. I just wondered if it's necessary to keep going with the Septrin, even though the Cystitis is caused by stress? The vet thought that I should keep going with it, until the blood has gone, so that Lily doesn't pick up a secondary infection. Thanks.

 

[Tiamolly123]

I think I would carry on with it, until the bleeding stops. Even if it is caused by stress, she will still bleed & be in pain. As a previous sufferer it's agony. There may be something you can give her to lessen the attacks, maybe @Adelle would know

 

[Lily & Rose]

I think I would carry on with it, until the bleeding stops. Even if it is caused by stress, she will still bleed & be in pain. As a previous sufferer it's agony. There may be something you can give her to lessen the attacks, maybe @Adelle would know

Thank you. I was going to continue with the Loxicom as that helps with the pain and reduces inflammation. I just keep worrying about the Septrin. I am giving Lily Pro C Probiotic and she has an Oxbow Urinary Support tablet everyday - not sure if that really helps, but Lily loves them. I was also thinking of making her some barley water tomorrow.

 

[Beans&Toast]

Toast has cystitis constantly brought on by stress. She gets so stressed by going to the vets or if anyone but me holds her that she ends up squealing loudly when she does the toilet and it looks and sounds so distressing. My vet won't prescribe antibiotics for Cystitis unless a urine sample shows an infection. She's on 2 Cystophan capsules (for cats) a day and 0.4 loxicom daily too, both have helped but nothing has completed stopped it as she's such a nervous animal. She's also on Amitriptyline daily which helps with anxiety as well as urinary issues. might be worth asking your vet for Cystophan, or cystese also.

 

[Lily & Rose]

Toast has cystitis constantly brought on by stress. She gets so stressed by going to the vets or if anyone but me holds her that she ends up squealing loudly when she does the toilet and it looks and sounds so distressing. My vet won't prescribe antibiotics for Cystitis unless a urine sample shows an infection. She's on 2 Cystophan capsules (for cats) a day and 0.4 loxicom daily too, both have helped but nothing has completed stopped it as she's such a nervous animal. She's also on Amitriptyline daily which helps with anxiety as well as urinary issues. might be worth asking your vet for Cystophan, or cystese also.

Thank you. I will look into those things. The only thing that seems to be making Lily stressed at the moment is having septrin. It seems to really upset her as she hates it so much.

 

[Adelle]

It's just one of those things that's usually prescribed but it will take some time to figure out what course of treatment helps her best during a flare.

Crunchie has IC and was always prescribed Septrin and Metacam during a flare. It always worked... Until the next time. It was only after several courses of Septrin and negative urine cultures that she was put on Metacam daily, with a higher dose during a flare and no antibiotics. This was just as effective showing the Septrin wasn't needed.

However since every pig is different and you have started the course, I would continue as advised by your vet until her course is up. You say there is less blood and squeaking so she is improving and it's impossible to say wether the Septrin is helping or not since she has a two pronged treatment plan. Stopping it too soon could make it come back worse.

Maybe if she has another flare up further down the line you could discuss trying her with Metacam only if her urine culture is still clear.

Have you adjusted er diet at all? A reduced calcium diet can help in these cases, and supplements such as Cystease daily I have found to be very effective.

We are around 18 months into Crunchies IC; with monthly flares and dentals needed due to her bladder pain being so severe he wasn't eating properly.. And she is now doing so much better, potentially looking like her cystitis is finally gone. She is now on half the dose of Metacam and Cystease that she used to be, is back on pellets (these were stopped because of her IC), she can eat veg now that used to trigger a bladder flare and she is now back to her normal weight which she hasn't weighed in 18 months.

Hope this helps x

 

[Wiebke]

Please continue unless and until you have got a diagnosis for IC (interstitial cystitis), which is currently not curable, only manageable. It is at the time still a matter of finding out what works best for your piggy in terms of medication and diet to cap the acute flare ups as much as possible.

The good news is that IC will eventually go away on its own, but we are talking years rather than months. My Nerys had it for about three years; thankfully she reacted extremely well to cystease after half a year of chronic cystitis, which nearly drove me to desperation! She then enjoyed another over 3 three entirely cystitis-free years of life and died at the respectable age of 8 years from age-related causes. Her IC happened at a time when even less was yet known about it and about things like trigger foods, for instance, and when cystease was a very new thing on the block... My Caron's IC passed after about a good year (for good!), so length and severity can vary.

 

[Lily & Rose]

It's just one of those things that's usually prescribed but it will take some time to figure out what course of treatment helps her best during a flare.

Crunchie has IC and was always prescribed Septrin and Metacam during a flare. It always worked... Until the next time. It was only after several courses of Septrin and negative urine cultures that she was put on Metacam daily, with a higher dose during a flare and no antibiotics. This was just as effective showing the Septrin wasn't needed.

However since every pig is different and you have started the course, I would continue as advised by your vet until her course is up. You say there is less blood and squeaking so she is improving and it's impossible to say wether the Septrin is helping or not since she has a two pronged treatment plan. Stopping it too soon could make it come back worse.

Maybe if she has another flare up further down the line you could discuss trying her with Metacam only if her urine culture is still clear.

Have you adjusted er diet at all? A reduced calcium diet can help in these cases, and supplements such as Cystease daily I have found to be very effective.

We are around 18 months into Crunchies IC; with monthly flares and dentals needed due to her bladder pain being so severe he wasn't eating properly.. And she is now doing so much better, potentially looking like her cystitis is finally gone. She is now on half the dose of Metacam and Cystease that she used to be, is back on pellets (these were stopped because of her IC), she can eat veg now that used to trigger a bladder flare and she is now back to her normal weight which she hasn't weighed in 18 months.

Hope this helps x

Thank you for your advice. Lily is normally just treated with Loxicom and that usually works, but this time the Cystitis keeps coming back. The vet did prescribe 0.8ml of Loxicom a day, but I have been worried about giving her this high dosage and 0.4ml has always been fine with Lily in the past.

I have tried reducing the calcium in her diet, although sometimes I give her a high calcium herb/veggie in with her salad, so that she doesn't become deficient in anything and so that the phosporus isn't too high in her diet. I'm always confused about what I should do regarding diet. She has filtered water and grain-free pellets which don't contain calcium carbonate and I also syringe feed her Pro C Probiotic each day, so that she gets extra fluid as she rarely drinks out of her bottle.

I will ask the vet about Cystease. Thank you again for your help x

 

[Lily & Rose]

Please continue unless and until you have got a diagnosis for IC (interstitial cystitis), which is currently not curable, only manageable. It is at the time still a matter of finding out what works best for your piggy in terms of medication and diet to cap the acute flare ups as much as possible.

The good news is that IC will eventually go away on its own, but we are talking years rather than months. My Nerys had it for about three years; thankfully she reacted extremely well to cystease after half a year of chronic cystitis, which nearly drove me to desperation! She then enjoyed another over 3 three entirely cystitis-free years of life and died at the respectable age of 8 years from age-related causes. Her IC happened at a time when even less was yet known about it and about things like trigger foods, for instance, and when cystease was a very new thing on the block... My Caron's IC passed after about a good year (for good!), so length and severity can vary.

Thank you. Normally I wouldn't be worried about giving Septrin, it's just that she had an overdose of it last Friday when the vet gave me the wrong dosage. Since then I keep worrying about her poos, as I've noticed a few squashed ones in the cage. Although, these might be from my other pig who has had problems with her tummy recently. I haven't been able to sleep properly since Lily had the 2.4ml of Seprin (paediatric) last Friday and I feel like I'm going mad analysing poos everyday.

I will continue with the Septrin, but I will ask the vet about Cystease if the cystitis doesn't go away.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you. Normally I wouldn't be worried about giving Septrin, it's just that she had an overdose of it last Friday when the vet gave me the wrong dosage. Since then I keep worrying about her poos, as I've noticed a few squashed ones in the cage. Although, these might be from my other pig who has had problems with her tummy recently. I haven't been able to sleep properly since Lily had the 2.4ml of Seprin (paediatric) last Friday and I feel like I'm going mad analysing poos everyday.

I will continue with the Septrin, but I will ask the vet about Cystease if the cystitis doesn't go away.

Cystease and similar glucosamine-based products are classed at food supplements, not as medication. By far not all guinea pigs react quite as strongly as Nerys did, but it helps to strengthen the natural glucosamine coating of the irritated bladder walls.
If she hasn't yet, @helen105281 can counsel you on which veg are currently recommended you stay away from.

 

[Lily & Rose]

Cystease and similar glucosamine-based products are classed at food supplements, not as medication. By far not all guinea pigs react quite as strongly as Nerys did, but it helps to strengthen the natural glucosamine coating of the irritated bladder walls.
If she hasn't yet, @helen105281 can counsel you on which veg are currently recommended you stay away from.

Is this the Cystease which you get or is it best to get it from the vets? Thanks.

 

[Wiebke]

Yes, it is the cat supplement; they are the other pet species prone to urinary tract problems.
I would still recommend to make your vets aware that you are giving it. You give about 1/2-1 tablet, depending on the severity. @Adelle @helen105281

 

[Lily & Rose]

Yes, it is the cat supplement; they are the other pet species prone to urinary tract problems.
I would still recommend to make your vets aware that you are giving it. You give about 1/2-1 tablet, depending on the severity. @Adelle @helen105281

Thank you. So far I haven't heard Lily cry when going to the toilet today, but there is still blood in her urine.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you. So far I haven't heard Lily cry when going to the toilet today, but there is still blood in her urine.

Then it is on the mild side. Hopefully, things are going to settle down again for a while soon once this flare-up is over.

 

[helen105281]

My Amy has interstitial cystitis and is on vegan glucosamine (one of the ingredients in Cystease). She is on 250mg a day but we worked up to that dose. I believe one capsule of Cystease is 125mg.

 

[Adelle]

Crunchie was started on 1/2 capsule twice a day of Cystease, improved further after a few weeks of upping to 1 capsule twice daily. Been on this for around 6/7 months, now down to 1 capsule once a day as things seem to be calming down now

 

[Lily & Rose]

My Amy has interstitial cystitis and is on vegan glucosamine (one of the ingredients in Cystease). She is on 250mg a day but we worked up to that dose. I believe one capsule of Cystease is 125mg.

Hi, I've seen the IC diet from one of your older posts and I have started it with Lily. I just wondered how much cucumber, pepper and celery you give? I just want to get the proportions right, as at the moment I'm not sure if I'm giving enough of each thing. Also, is Oxbow orchard grass okay for pigs with IC? Thanks.

 

[acapae]

Just a head up, but if you need to buy more, this is the best value cat bladder supplement. It has all the active ingredients at the same doses as the branded products (of which there are about 5) but is about 10% of the cost. It was only released last year though, hence why it's less well known
VetUK Bladder Supplement Sprinkle Capsules - From £5.11

 

[Lily & Rose]

Just a head up, but if you need to buy more, this is the best value cat bladder supplement. It has all the active ingredients at the same doses as the branded products (of which there are about 5) but is about 10% of the cost. It was only released last year though, hence why it's less well known
VetUK Bladder Supplement Sprinkle Capsules - From £5.11

Just a head up, but if you need to buy more, this is the best value cat bladder supplement. It has all the active ingredients at the same doses as the branded products (of which there are about 5) but is about 10% of the cost. It was only released last year though, hence why it's less well known
VetUK Bladder Supplement Sprinkle Capsules - From £5.11

Thank you. Those are liver flavoured so I don't think they can be given to guinea pigs. When I'm on my computer I will check to see if they do plain ones.

 

[acapae]

They must have changed the recipe - the leftover tub I have here from my last cat who was on them permanently isn't (she wouldn't have been able to have them if so due to intollerances). How annoying.

 

[Lily & Rose]

They must have changed the recipe - the leftover tub I have here from my last cat who was on them permanently isn't (she wouldn't have been able to have them if so due to intollerances). How annoying.

I know I don't know why they would make them flavoured when they would normally be mixed in with the cat's food.

 

[helen105281]

Hi, I've seen the IC diet from one of your older posts and I have started it with Lily. I just wondered how much cucumber, pepper and celery you give? I just want to get the proportions right, as at the moment I'm not sure if I'm giving enough of each thing. Also, is Oxbow orchard grass okay for pigs with IC? Thanks.

Yes mine have orchard grass but they also have meadow and timothy too. Ideally for cucumber it is one piece, pepper is one piece and the same with celery and they can have all that twice a day. It can be a bit more tricky if you have more than one pig though as they tend to take what they want.

 

[Lily & Rose]

Yes mine have orchard grass but they also have meadow and timothy too. Ideally for cucumber it is one piece, pepper is one piece and the same with celery and they can have all that twice a day. It can be a bit more tricky if you have more than one pig though as they tend to take what they want.

Thank you. How big are the pieces you give? For example, do you give a quarter of a slice of cucumber? My pigs like to run off with their food, so I put their food into separate piles. One of my pigs has been having trouble with her poos, so I'm not giving her spring greens or green beans at the moment, so it can get a bit stressful when she finishes before Lily.

 

[helen105281]

Yes about a quarter of a slice, sometimes a bit bigger if the OH is chopping and not me.

 

[Adelle]

Personally I found orchard grass , other "close to grass" hays like readigrass and actual grass in particular to be the cause of major flares in my IC sow. However her case was very bad with a thickened and scarred bladder and she was extremely sensitive to foods.. Couldn't even give her coriander as it set it off.

Thankfully she now seems to be out of her IC over 18 months later, eating readi grass and orchard grass, having a range of herbs for tea and back on normal pellets too...so don't lose hope!

 

[Lily & Rose]

Personally I found orchard grass , other "close to grass" hays like readigrass and actual grass in particular to be the cause of major flares in my IC sow. However her case was very bad with a thickened and scarred bladder and she was extremely sensitive to foods.. Couldn't even give her coriander as it set it off.

Thankfully she now seems to be out of her IC over 18 months later, eating readi grass and orchard grass, having a range of herbs for tea and back on normal pellets too...so don't lose hope!

I have taken the orchard grass out of the cage now! I was going to give it to my piggies as a treat every now and again, but I think I will leave it for now. Luckily they prefer timothy hay.

When you gave your girl a high dose of Loxicom when she had a bad flare, how much did you give? My vet advised 0.8ml of Loxicom (dog version) once a day, but I am still giving Lily 0.4ml once a day, as I thought 0.8ml seemed a bit too high. I asked my vet if I could split the dosage up, so that she could have it twice a day, but the vet said that it could cause problems with her kidneys. However, I've noticed that other people on the forum give it to their pigs twice a day.

Lily has been having half a capsule of Cystease twice a day for the past week, as well as the 0.4ml of Loxicom each day and she still squeaks occasionally when going to the toilet. I had to stop giving her Septrin after 10 days, as it was causing problems with her stomach. Her poos are back to normal again now and I was wondering whether I should go back to giving her Septrin again. I think the reason why it made her ill before was because she had 2.4ml of Septrin on the first day, as the vet made a mistake with the dosage.

 

[Adelle]

I have taken the orchard grass out of the cage now! I was going to give it to my piggies as a treat every now and again, but I think I will leave it for now. Luckily they prefer timothy hay.

When you gave your girl a high dose of Loxicom when she had a bad flare, how much did you give? My vet advised 0.8ml of Loxicom (dog version) once a day, but I am still giving Lily 0.4ml once a day, as I thought 0.8ml seemed a bit too high. I asked my vet if I could split the dosage up, so that she could have it twice a day, but the vet said that it could cause problems with her kidneys. However, I've noticed that other people on the forum give it to their pigs twice a day.

Lily has been having half a capsule of Cystease twice a day for the past week, as well as the 0.4ml of Loxicom each day and she still squeaks occasionally when going to the toilet. I had to stop giving her Septrin after 10 days, as it was causing problems with her stomach. Her poos are back to normal again now and I was wondering whether I should go back to giving her Septrin again. I think the reason why it made her ill before was because she had 2.4ml of Septrin on the first day, as the vet made a mistake with the dosage.

If there was no bacteria on the culture then there shouldn't e any need to restart the Septrin. Metacam is once daily in other animals so twice daily is technically an overdose (this is what your vet will be meaning) but since Guinea pigs have such a fast metabolism it doesn't stay in their systems for a full day hence why it's usually split into two doses. Crunchie was on 0.1ml twice a day normally then 0.2ml twice a day during a flare- this is dog Metacam though which is stronger than the cat one: what do u have?

 

[Lily & Rose]

If there was no bacteria on the culture then there shouldn't e any need to restart the Septrin. Metacam is once daily in other animals so twice daily is technically an overdose (this is what your vet will be meaning) but since Guinea pigs have such a fast metabolism it doesn't stay in their systems for a full day hence why it's usually split into two doses. Crunchie was on 0.1ml twice a day normally then 0.2ml twice a day during a flare- this is dog Metacam though which is stronger than the cat one: what do you have?

Lily has the dog Loxicom 1.5 mg/ml (meloxicam).

 

[Adelle]

Personally I wouldn't give 0.8ml
Regardless

Lily has the dog Loxicom 1.5 mg/ml (meloxicam).

Personally I give 0.2ml dog Metacam twice a day during a flare which provides better coverage than a once daily dose. I would make sure your vet is on board though x

 

[Lily & Rose]

Personally I wouldn't give 0.8ml
Regardless


Personally I give 0.2ml dog Metacam twice a day during a flare which provides better coverage than a once daily dose. I would make sure your vet is on board though x

Thank you. Sorry to ask another question, but when did you start noticing that the Cystease was working? I was wondering whether I should give Lily 1 capsule twice a day, instead of half a capsule twice a day, then reducing it once she is a lot better. She has only been taking it for a week though, so I wasn't sure whether to wait a while.