Is this an acceptable boar bond?

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MommaPiglet

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Milo and Simon are 2-3 months old. Simon is dominant and I see the behaviors daily. One day, after seeing a scratch on Milo’s lip, I placed a divider between them for 2 days & reintroduced them on neutral territory. Once Simon calmed down in the introduction, they were moved into their new 2x5 c&c cage (they were in Midwest before). They have more space, 2 of everything & multiple exit hideys spaced out in the cage. Simon seemed happier!


About a week later, I noticed another scratch on Milo’s lip, it was super tiny and shallow. However, I thought he might be accidentally doing it to himself, as he scratches a lot and never had a nail trim. So, I trimmed his nails (Side note: They have been to vet recently and are currently on treatment for mites. Still on their 1st out of 3 rounds.)

Milo seems to love being around Simon, however Simon seems to want to be left alone most of the time. They do play occasionally though, especially during floor time if Simon is in the mood to explore with Milo.

Everyday Simon is chasing Milo out of areas or telling Milo to get away from him. However, today he had a little bit of Milo’s fur in his mouth which I believe was from his ear (not behind the ear, I know that area is bald).

I know not to expect a cuddly boar bond with them, and I know to expect dominant behaviors at this age. Also, I have read all of the following more than once:
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
but sheesh, is this an acceptable bond? It would be helpful to hear others experiences. Thanks!
 
is Milo allowed to eat and rest or is is constant chasing?
are they both gaining weight well?
how long have they been togther?

this is the other guide which is helpful in working out whether a bond is functioning

Bonds In Trouble
 
Yes, Milo is allowed to eat and rest. If Simon signals that he wants Milo to leave, Milo will then go to the next eating or resting spot.

I do feel like Milo attempts to learn from Simon and likes being near him, which seems to annoy Simon unless he is the one to initiate the closeness (e.g. floor time: if Simon is in the mood to explore, he has a wonderful time with Milo).

Yes, they are both gaining weight well. Milo is an Abyssinian. He has always been bigger and eats more. Simon is an American and 20g smaller. I was told that they were littermates and together since birth.

Thank you!
 
That’s all sounds fine for now. Obviously you always need to keep an eye on them particularly once they hit their teens as that is when, if there are going to be any, problems will arise. Being littermates will not have any impact on whether they are more likely to get on or not though.
 
Piggies&buns said:
That’s all sounds fine for now. Obviously you always need to keep an eye on them particularly once they hit their teens as that is when, if there are going to be any, problems will arise. Being littermates will not have any impact on whether they are more likely to get on or not though.
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Thank you! I definitely will keep an eye on them. And ah yes, personality compatibility and mutual likeness. I am so thankful for the resources on here.
 
It might all work out fine - but I would start formulating a plan B at this point just in case. Hopefully you'll never have to use it. Maybe treating the mites will make a difference too. Being itchy can make one a bit short tempered sometimes! Good luck ☺
 
Free Ranger said:
It might all work out fine - but I would start formulating a plan B at this point just in case. Hopefully you'll never have to use it. Maybe treating the mites will make a difference too. Being itchy can make one a bit short tempered sometimes! Good luck ☺
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Thank you so much for the response! I do feel as though the mites has had an affect on them, even when it comes down to me handling them. I’m hoping to see improvement once treatment is complete.
They have soooo much fun together during floor time. There is some occasional “mean” dominance behavior from Simon during the time, but more so a lot of fun with all the floor space they get. I plan on turning their 2x5 c&c cage into a 3x5 pretty soon, possibly larger if possible. If it doesn’t work out, there are plenty of modifications I can do to their cage. But hoping for the best 🙏🏾😊
 
If you expand their cage size, you must be careful. Changing cage size constitutes a change in territory and will cause a hierarchy sort out.
in a happily bonded pair, it doesn’t usually cause an issue (youll see an increase in dominance for a short Time and that’ll probably be it), but in a pair where there are potential problems in their bond, then this can tip them over the edge. do read the guide below as it gives advice on this issue. It’s things like ensuring soiled bedding is put back into the cage so they can still see it as their territory.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
 
Piggies&buns said:
If you expand their cage size, you must be careful. Changing cage size constitutes a change in territory and will cause a hierarchy sort out.
in a happily bonded pair, it doesn’t usually cause an issue (youll see an increase in dominance for a short Time and that’ll probably be it), but in a pair where there are potential problems in their bond, then this can tip them over the edge. do read the guide below as it gives advice on this issue. It’s things like ensuring soiled bedding is put back into the cage so they can still see it as their territory.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
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Thank you! Their first cage was a Midwest which I discovered was not enough room, causing Simon to be extremely territorial. The guide you sent is actually what helped me about 2 weeks ago to move them into their 2x5 c&c cage after reintroducing them. I “boarsilized” (I think that’s the term haha) their cage and it seemed to work out.

UPDATE: Simon used to not explore during floor time. Now that Simon is exploring with Milo and seems to be more involved in enrichment, he seems to be a bit calmer in the cage. They also seem to be healing well from the mites (they are on treatment 2 out of 3 now). However, I will continue to monitor them and educate myself more with all these helpful guides.
 
Unfortunately, I had to separate them. The bullying from Simon became a lot. Simon chases Milo out of every spot even though there’s plenty of everything. Random cuts appeared on Milo’s lip a few times, each time healing in like 3 days (I used saline solution on them) and I thought maybe he was scratching himself or it was a sharp piece or hay. I ended up clipping their nails for the first time and didn’t see any scratches since then. Until it happened again and this time it wasn’t some little scratch, it was a bite to Milo’s mouth. I witnessed it happen. Simon is constantly going after Milo. He wasn’t like this when they first came home with me, but I guess he isn’t skittish to his environment anymore so he doesn’t want to be near Milo anymore. I don’t know if it’s the teenage hormones but this was definitely disappointing for me. As of today, their c&c cage is now a 3x5, split in half.
 
It does happen and I do sympathise. Is Milo sad or relieved?! It might take a few days for things to settle down but I hope they are getting along as neighbours 🤞
I guess you can still try to put hideys/food/hay near the barrier so they can sleep/eat together if they want to.
 
Thank you! And also thank you so much for the advice. Milo seems a bit sad. They both were less active today and stayed in their pet beds longer than usual. Milo tries to climb the divider to get back to Simon. It’s like no matter what Simon does to him, he never hates him. But it’s clear that Simon is going through something and is getting increasingly more aggressive. They have their last round of mites treatment coming up soon. I’m thinking maybe after the treatment is done and maybe a few months apart if hormones calm down, I can possibly reintroduce. They still have floor time together. That is when I give them some of their veggies for the day. Simon doesn’t mind eating veggies with Milo. For now, I only feel comfortable leaving them together when I can supervise so I will continue to do their floor time together.
 
If you’ve separated them then I’m afraid you can’t give them floor time together. They’re either together all the time, or apart all the time. There’s no in between. Separating for a few months will put them into their teenage months. It’s a hard time to try and bond boars during this time.

When you do separate you always make a decision by the behaviour of the under pig. If he seems more relaxed then it may be that the bond is fractious.
 
:agr: And I’m sorry to hear the things haven’t worked out between them. As siikibam has said now theyve been separated you cannot let them have any physical time together. You need to do floor time for each one separately. If you put them together for floor time then separate them again to them each and every meeting is a bonding session. they go through the bonding process only to be separated. This causes stress to them every time and it won’t actually achieve anything. Plus, being repeatedly put together with somebody they don’t like isn’t going to be a nice experience for them.

just to pick up on something - you say reintroduce in a few months when their hormones calm down - hormones won’t settle until they are well over a year old (about 15 months of age)
 
Siikibam said:
If you’ve separated them then I’m afraid you can’t give them floor time together. They’re either together all the time, or apart all the time. There’s no in between. Separating for a few months will put them into their teenage months. It’s a hard time to try and bond boars during this time.

When you do separate you always make a decision by the behaviour of the under pig. If he seems more relaxed then it may be that the bond is fractious.
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Thank you for this advice!

I thought it was ok because the dominant pig does his own thing during floor time and doesn’t pay him much mind.
I am just now seeing the notification for your response however, I actually ended up running into somewhere else on this forum that said the same exact thing, so I just stopped the floor time together. Today, I put grids in between them on the floor/separating them, just like how they are in their c&c cage. Is that ok?

The under pig tries to get to the other side of the cage countless times everyday. Tonight, he finally found a way to get past the divider and I had to make some alterations to ensure it didn’t happen again. If it was up to me, I would have them together but the dominate pig bit his lip like twice in a row. I was hoping in their later teenage months maybe it would simmer down a bit 😩 just wishful thinking.

Thank you for everything!
 
Piggies&buns said:
:agr: And I’m sorry to hear the things haven’t worked out between them. As siikibam has said now theyve been separated you cannot let them have any physical time together. You need to do floor time for each one separately. If you put them together for floor time then separate them again to them each and every meeting is a bonding session. they go through the bonding process only to be separated. This causes stress to them every time and it won’t actually achieve anything. Plus, being repeatedly put together with somebody they don’t like isn’t going to be a nice experience for them.

just to pick up on something - you say reintroduce in a few months when their hormones calm down - hormones won’t settle until they are well over a year old (about 15 months of age)
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Thank you for the advice! I appreciate it and I am listening and applying. With the ample floor space, Simon does his own thing so I initially thought it was fine. As of today, I began to put grids between them/separating them for floor time. Is that acceptable?

It’s difficult to accept that Simon doesn’t like Milo. Milo is so sweet and nice, but I understand guinea pigs have a whole different way of life and communication. I thought it was the beginning of the teenage years getting to Simon’s head.

I thought with behavior (in regards to hormones), it can be more intense during different points of the teenage years. I was hoping it wouldn’t be rough all 15 months LOL. It’s just wishful thinking on my end. But of course, I’m prepared to accommodate whatever decisions the piggies make.

Thanks for everything!
 
MommaPiglet said:
Thank you for the advice! I appreciate it and I am listening and applying. With the ample floor space, Simon does his own thing so I initially thought it was fine. As of today, I began to put grids between them/separating them for floor time. Is that acceptable?

It’s difficult to accept that Simon doesn’t like Milo. Milo is so sweet and nice, but I understand guinea pigs have a whole different way of life and communication. I thought it was the beginning of the teenage years getting to Simon’s head.

I thought with behavior (in regards to hormones), it can be more intense during different points of the teenage years. I was hoping it wouldn’t be rough all 15 months LOL. It’s just wishful thinking on my end. But of course, I’m prepared to accommodate whatever decisions the piggies make.

Thanks for everything!
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yes the grids between are fine

there are larger hormone spikes during the teens but they are hormonal throughout all the period. But, if they don’t like each other than it doesn’t make any difference whether they are teens or adults.

Milo may like Simon but they need to like each other for it to be able to work out. It may be that Milo needs to be bonded and live with another character compatible piggy - would getting him a new live in friend be an option? Simon of course can be bonded with another as well. If space is an issue, once they are both living with another piggy, then their cages can be stacked to Save space
 
Piggies&buns said:
yes the grids between are fine

there are larger hormone spikes during the teens but they are hormonal throughout all the period. But, if they don’t like each other than it doesn’t make any difference whether they are teens or adults.

Milo may like Simon but they need to like each other for it to be able to work out. It may be that Milo needs to be bonded and live with another character compatible piggy - would getting him a new live in friend be an option? Simon of course can be bonded with another as well. If space is an issue, once they are both living with another piggy, then their cages can be stacked to Save space
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Thanks!

Yes, I understand mutual liking is key, which is why I have separated them because suddenly I see Simon doesn’t like Milo 😩. I do like the idea of taking them to a rescue for some dating so they can pick out new buddies. However, I just got them a little under 2 months ago and at this moment I am not ready for 4 piggies or any other fall outs. I want to do what’s best for them so I will definitely take your advice into consideration and prepare to give them the best living conditions. Thank you!
 
George is alone at the moment, waiting for new companions, and we got a 'snuggle-safe' microwavable heat pad and a hot water bottle for him at night. We put them outside the bedroom part of the cage and it warms the plastic wall. George is indoors, so it's not like he really needs this but as a lone pig he takes comfort from the heat and when I say goodnight he is always lying pressed against the warm wall of the cage. Perhaps your boys - especially Milo - might like something similar for comfort. Or perhaps they are happy enough in hideys near each other next to the barrier? Unless Simon is trying to bite Milo's face through the bars! Sending hugs x
 
Free Ranger said:
George is alone at the moment, waiting for new companions, and we got a 'snuggle-safe' microwavable heat pad and a hot water bottle for him at night. We put them outside the bedroom part of the cage and it warms the plastic wall. George is indoors, so it's not like he really needs this but as a lone pig he takes comfort from the heat and when I say goodnight he is always lying pressed against the warm wall of the cage. Perhaps your boys - especially Milo - might like something similar for comfort. Or perhaps they are happy enough in hideys near each other next to the barrier? Unless Simon is trying to bite Milo's face through the bars! Sending hugs x
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Awww that is so sweet and adorable. That’s a nice idea. I love buying things for them so I will check it out.

Haha, thankfully no biting through the bars 🙏🏾 but they do rumble strut and Simon still shows he’s boss 🤣. They also seem to hang out sometimes. They pass pieces of hay through the bars to each other, do zoomies at the same time, and they sleep in the same exact areas. If they aren’t both sleeping by the bars then they are both in the same spot of their respective parts of the cage.

Thank you so much for everything! There’s so many resources on this forum, but I secretly come here for the moral support as well 🤣 I appreciate you all.
 
I’m glad they are doing well with through the bar interaction. Some piggies are just better off as neighbours!

do be aware that sleeping by the bars isn’t always a friendly gesture - it can sometimes be an exercise in marking their own territories
 
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