is this bullying behaviour?

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Lil-Ninnibig

Lil-Ninnibig

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Further to my post regarding boar issues and bonding 2 boars.. I think my new baby well teenage piggy is bullying ditto my 3 year old.. Firstly last night i noticed it would chase ditto out of the sleeping quarters of there cage by running towards him trying to nip his face resulting in ditto quickly reversing out of the little hole.. Now ive just witnessed the baby teeth chattering and lifting his head and trying to nip ditto when hes eating from the bowl meaning ditto moves from the bowl to a piece of cucumber on the floor and the baby follows him and does the same thing again until my OH makes a noise such as claps his hands. Is this normal for two new boars? As I'm worried that if this little 12 week old baby is bullying ditto now whos twice the size of him whats he going to be like as a fully grown adult... I had the option of a much quieter rex should i have chosen that one instead of this abysinian one... ?
 
It was my younger, smaller boar that challenged my older bigger boar. That's because the young lad had hit his teenage hormonal phase while the older was past it. Size has nothing to do with it. And when your young lad gets older and leaves his teenage phase, he should grow calmer.

Just leave them be unless blood has been drawn, then you will have to separate. In that case they can still have company if you have them close enough to see and hear each other and touch noses through the bars. Also they could still perhaps get along together at neutral places like floor time.
 
Thankyou.. The main problem is the sleeping area of the cage its a ferplast 120 . The baby wont allow ditto my older pig into the sleeping area it chases him out and nips him not hard enough to make ditto squek or draw blood but its upsetting me as it was dittos cage and ive brought this baby in for him as company and now baby is taking over and making dito miserable. I tried buying to igloos yesterday so they have one each but they took up to much room in there cage and really reduced there cage floor space. I'm so torn. Do you think its qorth trying the rex i was offered it seemed more laid back and was younger than my baby it was 10 weeks whereas the abysinian baby i have is 12 weeks.
 
When my older Boar went dating he went to a Piggy Bank recommended rescue and he stayed there for well over a week to make sure they were definitely right for each other.

He has a friend who I think is around 8 months and they get on well - They have the odd "HEY THAT IS MY PIGLOO" argument but they are the best of friends.

Maybe a longer bonding period would have been better.
 
I hope this does not offend. I've read through your posts and to me it seems that you might not have taken with your new pig as much as you would like and would prefer the Rex. Any hints or tips that has been given, you add a problem to it, eg, i cant seperate them as i only have 1 cage. As a make shift home, anything will do so long as the piggy is safe, secure and dry. As important as it is that the piggies get along, your important to, as they will pick up so easily on you feeling stressed. Please dont think i'm having a go at you, because thats the last thing i would do, i am honestly just trying to help. Nicola x
 
As you have identified, they clearly need 2 sleeping areas. But you don't need to buy something, what about a card board box with 2 doors cut in? My boars do not have igloos as they only have 1 door and can get boxed in. 2 doors certainly best for boys.
Think it is a bit hard on the aby baby to give up on the bonding and just swap for another pairing which equally might not work.
 
welshwonderful said:
I hope this does not offend. I've read through your posts and to me it seems that you might not have taken with your new pig as much as you would like and would prefer the Rex. Any hints or tips that has been given, you add a problem to it, eg, i cant seperate them as i only have 1 cage. As a make shift home, anything will do so long as the piggy is safe, secure and dry. As important as it is that the piggies get along, your important to, as they will pick up so easily on you feeling stressed. Please dont think i'm having a go at you, because thats the last thing i would do, i am honestly just trying to help. Nicola x
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you havent offended but i actually had the choice of my pig or the rex and i chose my pig as i preferred him for his coat colour etc and he and the rex seemed fine with ditto at first. Now theyve been together a few days the problems are starting. I have taken to the piggy hes called skitt and I'm growin attached but i have a responsibility to ditto as he was the original pig and i do not want him miserable
 
Lil-Ninnibig said:
Thankyou.. The main problem is the sleeping area of the cage its a ferplast 120 . The baby wont allow ditto my older pig into the sleeping area it chases him out and nips him not hard enough to make ditto squek or draw blood but its upsetting me as it was dittos cage and ive brought this baby in for him as company and now baby is taking over and making dito miserable. I tried buying to igloos yesterday so they have one each but they took up to much room in there cage and really reduced there cage floor space. I'm so torn. Do you think its qorth trying the rex i was offered it seemed more laid back and was younger than my baby it was 10 weeks whereas the abysinian baby i have is 12 weeks.
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There is no guarantee that things will be any different with the 10 week old rex than they are with the 12 week old aby. Pairing boars is all about matching personalities and that is why these boar dating rescues are so good. However, in my part of the world we don't really have that option so I bonded a baby with an (almost) adult that were previously unknown to each other. I did follow steps advised on this forum and guineapigcages on how to bond. Did you just bring baby home and put him straight into Ditto's cage? I must say though that not having 2 of everything including sleeping hideys is a big problem. I have always had 2 of everything and I do mean absolutely everything. My boys have been together almost a year now and fights are still only avoided because they can each have their own.
 
gplearner said:
As you have identified, they clearly need 2 sleeping areas. But you don't need to buy something, what about a card board box with 2 doors cut in? My boars do not have igloos as they only have 1 door and can get boxed in. 2 doors certainly best for boys.
Think it is a bit hard on the aby baby to give up on the bonding and just swap for another pairing which equally might not work.
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i no this is why I'm so torn i dont want to panic and send the abby baby *** as the rex may end up worse with ditto and he will be back to square one.. I will try the card board box i think maybe try and make it so it is divided with two doors into two seperate sleeping areas.. A little d.i.y is in order i think . Ive rang the rescue lady and she will call me back shortly just want to ask her opinion on situation. Thanku
 
Lilly said:
There is no guarantee that things will be any different with the 10 week old rex than they are with the 12 week old aby. Pairing boars is all about matching personalities and that is why these boar dating rescues are so good. However, in my part of the world we don't really have that option so I bonded a baby with an (almost) adult that were previously unknown to each other. I did follow steps advised on this forum and guineapigcages on how to bond. Did you just bring baby home and put him straight into Ditto's cage? I must say though that not having 2 of everything including sleeping hideys is a big problem. I have always had 2 of everything and I do mean absolutely everything. My boys have been together almost a year now and fights are still only avoided because they can each have their own.
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i am going to try and make a sleeping compartment that fits at the end of the cage i have the ferplast 120 .. That is divided with two holes and a divider panel down the centre and see if this works.. I love the abby baby but dont want ditto to be miserable ... :-( .. Or is ditto bein abit off due to the change and does he just need time to adjust? The lady at the rescue had me bring ditto and she put the young abby in a run with ditto. The same with the rex. After a few rumbles and teeth chattering they just sat eating together thus why i had the choice of either baby.. I just hope i made the right choice ad the abby did nip ditto in the run whereas the rex didnt .does this mean anything? The lady said it was all normal behaviour but I'm wondering if mine and dittos lives would have been made easier had i chosen the lesa feisty rex ....
 
This to me sounds like general dominance behaviour.
My 2 were exactly like this and even now they are.

I introduced a younger pig to an older pig but its my older pig who is showing who is boss.
Baby pig likes to follow big pig around and do what he's doing. Chasing, teeth chattering, little nips and the big pig not wanting little pig around him all sounds normal to me.

I call my older pig a grandad because he's just like a grumpy grandad dealing with a teenager.

Your piggies really need 2 of everything ...... 2 feeding bowls, 2 water bottles, 2 beds/igloo's and 2 play toys.

Dont worry to much just keep a watch on them and unless it gets really agressive like full on fighting then just leave them be, if they do start to properly fight and cause injury to each other then seperate them imediatly.
 
I know you had a choice as i read through your posts. How about (just as a 10/15 min thing a few times a day) you put a piece of cardboard or such seperating the home into 2, 1 piggies each side (not much room i know, but for such a short time, it would be ok) then remove the barrier. The next time you put it up, make sure the piggies are on the opposite sides, that will get then used to the scent of each other with out them being in each others faces. Also put in 2 feed bowls. Piggies are really just like children, in the end you just have to sit back and watch them sort it out themselves. I know though just how hard this is, as i am going through a similar problem with my piggy boys. Good luck, hang in there, hopefully skitt will settle and stop harassing Ditto soon. Nicola x
P.S. I love the names
 
Lil-Ninnibig said:
i am going to try and make a sleeping compartment that fits at the end of the cage i have the ferplast 120 .. That is divided with two holes and a divider panel down the centre and see if this works.. I love the abby baby but dont want ditto to be miserable ... :-( .. Or is ditto bein abit off due to the change and does he just need time to adjust? The lady at the rescue had me bring ditto and she put the young abby in a run with ditto. The same with the rex. After a few rumbles and teeth chattering they just sat eating together thus why i had the choice of either baby.. I just hope i made the right choice ad the abby did nip ditto in the run whereas the rex didnt .does this mean anything? The lady said it was all normal behaviour but I'm wondering if mine and dittos lives would have been made easier had i chosen the lesa feisty rex ....
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Good step in providing the 2nd sleeping space. I must say that if it had been me I would have taken the rex if the aby nipped Ditto while "boar dating".
 
Rachel2709 said:
This to me sounds like general dominance behaviour.
My 2 were exactly like this and even now they are.

I introduced a younger pig to an older pig but its my older pig who is showing who is boss.
Baby pig likes to follow big pig around and do what he's doing. Chasing, teeth chattering, little nips and the big pig not wanting little pig around him all sounds normal to me.

I call my older pig a grandad because he's just like a grumpy grandad dealing with a teenager.

Your piggies really need 2 of everything ...... 2 feeding bowls, 2 water bottles, 2 beds/igloo's and 2 play toys.

Dont worry to much just keep a watch on them and unless it gets really agressive like full on fighting then just leave them be, if they do start to properly fight and cause injury to each other then seperate them imediatly.
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thanku. They have a water bottle each and a feeding bowl each and as baby wont leave sleeping compartment ive been putting his veggies in *** with him for now and dittos infront just while they grow accustomed to eachother. Baby is getting braver now and has started coming out unless me or OH make a movement or noise then hes back in like a shot. I just wish they would share sleeping area :-( its big enough.. I'm struglging to get two igloos big enough in the ferplast 120 cage i have as they take up all the floor space of the cage.. I cant fit a c&c cage in my flat. The lady at the rescue said the cage would be easily big enough for two pigs but now they wont share a sleeping area its making the space tight with two sleeping areas.
 
welshwonderful said:
I know you had a choice as i read through your posts. How about (just as a 10/15 min thing a few times a day) you put a piece of cardboard or such seperating the home into 2, 1 piggies each side (not much room i know, but for such a short time, it would be ok) then remove the barrier. The next time you put it up, make sure the piggies are on the opposite sides, that will get then used to the scent of each other with out them being in each others faces. Also put in 2 feed bowls. Piggies are really just like children, in the end you just have to sit back and watch them sort it out themselves. I know though just how hard this is, as i am going through a similar problem with my piggy boys. Good luck, hang in there, hopefully skitt will settle and stop harassing Ditto soon. Nicola x
P.S. I love the names
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thankyou hun :-) yes my OH chose skitt as hes skitsy (mental,crazy) lol
 
Lilly said:
Good step in providing the 2nd sleeping space. I must say that if it had been me I would have taken the rex if the aby nipped Ditto while "boar dating".
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hmmm this is my predicament. I just want ditto to be happy and to have the best pairing i can get.. Il speak to the lady i got skitt off and see what she says
 
Lil-Ninnibig said:
thanku. They have a water bottle each and a feeding bowl each and as baby wont leave sleeping compartment ive been putting his veggies in *** with him for now and dittos infront just while they grow accustomed to eachother. Baby is getting braver now and has started coming out unless me or OH make a movement or noise then hes back in like a shot. I just wish they would share sleeping area :-( its big enough.. I'm struglging to get two igloos big enough in the ferplast 120 cage i have as they take up all the floor space of the cage.. I cant fit a c&c cage in my flat. The lady at the rescue said the cage would be easily big enough for two pigs but now they wont share a sleeping area its making the space tight with two sleeping areas.
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have you tried getting them snuggle beds instead of solid igloos etc? All mine has them and loves lolling on them all day. They also have wicker domes each, but i am fortunate as i have big rooms and in my human childrens room there are also 3 large piggy cages. Nicola x
 
welshwonderful said:
have you tried getting them snuggle beds instead of solid igloos etc? All mine has them and loves lolling on them all day. They also have wicker domes each, but i am fortunate as i have big rooms and in my human childrens room there are also 3 large piggy cages. Nicola x
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ive seen in pets @ home like sticks that can be shaped into a dome and there piggys had them . But they dont seem to be able to hide in them like they can in igloos so i dont know whether to try these..do they need somewhere to sleep? Cos ditto since having skitt has been sleeping in the front of the cage? He never used to though. Feel realy sorry for him .
 
Lil-Ninnibig said:
thanku. They have a water bottle each and a feeding bowl each and as baby wont leave sleeping compartment ive been putting his veggies in *** with him for now and dittos infront just while they grow accustomed to eachother. Baby is getting braver now and has started coming out unless me or OH make a movement or noise then hes back in like a shot. I just wish they would share sleeping area :-( its big enough.. I'm struglging to get two igloos big enough in the ferplast 120 cage i have as they take up all the floor space of the cage.. I cant fit a c&c cage in my flat. The lady at the rescue said the cage would be easily big enough for two pigs but now they wont share a sleeping area its making the space tight with two sleeping areas.
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Yes, technically a 120 is supposed to be big enough for 2 boars, but as everything I have read says each boy must have their own hidey, I soon realised my 120 store bought cage was not big enough for doubles of everything. Like you, I discovered 2 pigloos took up too much floor space. I ended up getting an outdoor 2 story hutch with attached run (that I use inside). They now have a bottom area of 120 x 90 and a top area of 120 x 45. The hutch cost me less than the pet shop cage. Even if you exchanged the aby for the rex I think you are still going to have to provide 2 hideys for 2 boars.
 
you could try the snuggle beds in the day and see how they go. My 4 girls all snuggle in 1 in the day, but then all go to seperate parts of the enclosure at night. They have 2 igloos, a big bridge thing and a step up thing (i am great at describing things arent i lol), at night Bella sleeps under the step up thing, Daffodil under the bridge, Meadow in huge pile of hay and Trixie dosses down anywhere (again lucky, big room, lovely ex father in law that does DIY). None of them use the igloo's at night.
I bought my snuggle beds on EBAY think they were £3.99 each inc p&p. If i find the link I'll send it to you. Nicola x
 
Lil-Ninnibig said:
ive seen in pets @ home like sticks that can be shaped into a dome and there piggys had them . But they dont seem to be able to hide in them like they can in igloos so i dont know whether to try these..do they need somewhere to sleep? Cos ditto since having skitt has been sleeping in the front of the cage? He never used to though. Feel realy sorry for him .
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P.S. meant to add that my girls sometimes go under the snuggle bed or flip it over so they are covered. BTW, i'm not on commisision in any way, shape or form for the snuggle beds lol Nicola x
 
Lilly said:
Yes, technically a 120 is supposed to be big enough for 2 boars, but as everything I have read says each boy must have their own hidey, I soon realised my 120 store bought cage was not big enough for doubles of everything. Like you, I discovered 2 pigloos took up too much floor space. I ended up getting an outdoor 2 story hutch with attached run (that I use inside). They now have a bottom area of 120 x 90 and a top area of 120 x 45. The hutch cost me less than the pet shop cage. Even if you exchanged the aby for the rex I think you are still going to have to provide 2 hideys for 2 boars.
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I did the same as you, got a 2 storey cage which i use indoors. £82.00 it cost which was alot less than the original cage i got which was supposed to be big enough for 2 adult piggies ( they forgot to add only if they was dwarf and anorexic). Nicola x
 
welshwonderful said:
P.S. meant to add that my girls sometimes go under the snuggle bed or flip it over so they are covered. BTW, i'm not on commisision in any way, shape or form for the snuggle beds lol Nicola x
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haha. Ok thanks for all your help. I'm going to try a bit of d.i.y and try and give them seperate sleeping areas if the baby still appears to bully ditto il take him back and probably keep ditto alone as thinking about it he actually seemed happier when it was just him not so lethargic.. This morn he didnt even get excited or beg for his vegs which is so not ditto :'( i thought i was doing the best thing for ditto now i think i am making his life miserable
 
This is one of the problems with going to a breeder over a reputable rescue - any reputable rescue that offers boar dating would have found your boy a friend based upon personality and would have monitored them for a few days to ensure there is a friendship between the two - they would have also been able to offer your boar a wide variety of friends to meet before allowing him to choose his own mate.

Boar dating is also very much about them choosing one another as opposed to us choosing them one we like best - boars are very much like us humans, and not every pairing will get along - there are people i dont much like and choose to stay away from them - it's the same with boars.

Two of my boys had to be separated and if I'm honest their relationship had always been a bit 'strained/tense' even though they were father and son, they were not matched on personality but rather put together for convenience (unplanned pregnancy and the only option was to rehome him or put him with his dad).

My other two boys are perfectly matched - one is very dominant while the other couldn't care less - they frequently kiss/wash one another and always sleep together.

I would give it some time - they may end up the best of friends or they may always have a tense relationship - you know your pigs, if you feel there is obvious bullying going on, then i would separate and consider getting each their own friend from a reputable rescue.

A bigger cage could help - i personally wouldn't house a pair of boys in anything less than a 140

Good luck :)
 
Lil-Ninnibig said:
haha. Ok thanks for all your help. I'm going to try a bit of d.i.y and try and give them seperate sleeping areas if the baby still appears to bully ditto il take him back and probably keep ditto alone as thinking about it he actually seemed happier when it was just him not so lethargic.. This morn he didnt even get excited or beg for his vegs which is so not ditto :'( i thought i was doing the best thing for ditto now i think i am making his life miserable
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I know what you mean, we have the 3 boys Ant, Dec & Charlie and was thinking about trying to re-bond them, but i think they are happier with the set up we have. Ant is on bottom bunk, Dec on top and Charlie by the side, they chatter away to each other constantly and i put Dec and Charlie in the run outside together (under a v watchful eye). Ant has the complete run of the house. But i felt so sorry for them being on their own (especially after seeing the 4 girls run around together), that i thought they would be happier if i meddled with the arrangements. They wasnt so i think i will let them be. Anyhow good luck, i have my fingers crossed that Skitt and Ditto can call some kind of truce. Keep me posted (if you don't mind) Nicola x
 
Ok, I'm going to be a bit blunt here. Firstly a 120 is a minimum. Boys generally need MUCH more space than that. Have you got a run, this space is in my opinion a bit small for boars thta are clearly very, well Boarish lol and like to asert thier mannylyness. A run will give them space to exercise and play togetehr without the need for being territorial.
So they arent getting along swimmingly....most boars will always have little attempts to dominate even a submissive boar will try his luck now and again. You need to prevent attempts to dominate not encourage it. That mens remove any pigloos that dont have two entrances and make sure there is two and in this case possibly three of everything. Botter bottles, food dishes, tunnels etc. To create shelter and security you can just lay a towel over one half of the cage. That way there will be enough room for both to have a sleeping area.
With boars you only call it a day when there is serious agressions, I mean lunging and blood drawn. It is likely the younger boar has a surge of hormones he doesnt know how to deal with at the moment.
 
Replace the pigloo with playsticks. The playsticks are open at both ends, so neither pig can get cornered. Plus you can see them when they're hiding ;) The other thing to try is a cardboard tube, ours seem to like hiding and even sleeping in those too :)
 
welshwonderful said:
I did the same as you, got a 2 storey cage which i use indoors. £82.00 it cost which was alot less than the original cage i got which was supposed to be big enough for 2 adult piggies ( they forgot to add only if they was dwarf and anorexic). Nicola x
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Funny, same problem on different sides of the world:)). My 120 x 50 store bought cage cost me $169. The 2 story hutch cost me $99, the top level is about the same size as the previous cage and the bottom level is twice as wide as the previous cage. So really they have 3 times the space now. I did have to get a male to put it together though (it was flat pack) and that cost me $12 in beer!
 
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