Is this new bonding normal?

Sian25

Sian25

Adult Guinea Pig
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Admittedly, I'm not the most clued up on Guinea pig bonding behaviour. I have read through lots of bonding threads, but this new bonding seems different. We took Effie to a rescue yesterday at 10.30 and at 3pm she was ready to come home with her new pal. Initially all seemed perfect, there was no rumble strutting, nipping, teeth chattering etc- nothing at all and they seemed really happy. About 2 hours later, it changed a little.. nothing major but new pig started to chase Effie out of the hides (mainly one in particular that she seems to have claimed as hers). They also had a few nose to nose situations- occurs if Effie gets too close to new pig as new pig seems to prefer her own space at the moment. I have only ever seen Effie walk away if new pig puts her nose up apart from this little clip that I captured, which it's not letting me upload (I'll try find a way to upload the vid).. effie seemed to retaliate a little, but maybe because she felt cornered. I have since removed the hay tray and just put a pile on the fleece for now so theres less places for them to feel confined.

Just wanting to know if this is normal for the first/second day? I guess I hoped they would be all snuggled up by now.
 
I have attached the video. Most of the time, they are sleeping in seperate hidies and are not communicating lots.

 
Sian25 said:
I have attached the video. Most of the time, they are sleeping in seperate hidies and are not communicating lots.

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Hi!

Your new piggy has obviously come out on top of the pile and is reinforcing her dominance. This is typical behaviour for the post-bonding dominance phase and will stop once the newbie is feeling safe and unchallenged in their role. Ideally you remove any hideys with two exits during this time, have two of the same and either sprinkle feed or feed in two bowls over a body length apart.

The behaviours are on the mild side in the video. Your newbie is just throwing her weight around a little.

Things are bound be much more lively during the first season as that also serves to cement the new hierarchy and the bond.

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
 
Thank you @Wiebke, I find the whole process so confusing and hard to read. They do seem to be getting on fine, but I've not seen any specific positive signs like cleaning themselves together, sleeping close to eachother, grooming of eachother etc. They seem to be keeping more of a distance so I dont know if they have accepted eachother
 
Sian25 said:
Thank you @Wiebke, I find the whole process so confusing and hard to read. They do seem to be getting on fine, but I've not seen any specific positive signs like cleaning themselves together, sleeping close to eachother, grooming of eachother etc. They seem to be keeping more of a distance so I dont know if they have accepted eachother
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They have fully accepted each other and bonded well but they are still in the phase of working out the shape of their relationship.
Making friends comes afterwards once the newbie feels secure in her leadership role and her new home. Keep in mind that she is basically taking over her companion's patch, and that is likely increasing her insecurity. Which means that she is more stand-offish than she would feel necessary on her own home ground.

Please accept that not every bonded is lovey-dovey right from the word go. It is no less valid a bond and relationship!
It is not yet time for any of the behaviours you are looking out for (not that you always see all of those behaviours), and you may never get them as each bond is different and unique.
 
Fab, thankyou! Great reassurance :D we have called new pig Flo and although we have left them to settle with no handling, she seems very confident with humans and a little character :luv:
 
Sian25 said:
Fab, thankyou! Great reassurance :D we have called new pig Flo and although we have left them to settle with no handling, she seems very confident with humans and a little character :luv:
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Just give her time to get her feet fully on the ground. There is nothing to worry about!
 
@Wiebke all was pretty mild until yesterday. New pig Flo started to chase Effie round a lot, rumblestrutting and possibly trying to mount her. She had not done any of these behaviours before, so does it sound typical of a season? She is still doing the same this morning and i can tell that their double ended hidies have been moved all over the cage in the process over night. Effie is making squealing noises and squirted Flo with pee. So does it sound like a season or is something going wrong?
 
Sian25 said:
@Wiebke all was pretty mild until yesterday. New pig Flo started to chase Effie round a lot, rumblestrutting and possibly trying to mount her. She had not done any of these behaviours before, so does it sound typical of a season? She is still doing the same this morning and i can tell that their double ended hidies have been moved all over the cage in the process over night. Effie is making squealing noises and squirted Flo with pee. So does it sound like a season or is something going wrong?
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Yes, that sounds like a season. It is not going to lead to a fight, but the shared experience will bind them together more closely.
 
I think you're right as theres not been any drama this evening so I think her season has passed. Thanks again 😊
 
@Wiebke I spoke too soon! Flo is still chasing Effie frequently around the cage and I've woken up to dramatic noises! Its been about 48 hours now since this started, so I'm guessing it's not her season. I don't understand why it started so suddenly though as she didnt mount/rumbestrut at all for the first 3 days! Effie sounds stressed :(
 
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I've no experience of bonding, but I do know my girls still act like this occasionally. They are from the same litter and are now 3, so I don't think it's anything to worry about. It can be distressing to see/hear but if you remind yourself that guinea pigs are drama queens it makes it easier!
 
Sian25 said:
@Wiebke I spoke too soon! Flo is still chasing Effie frequently around the cage and I've woken up to dramatic noises! Its been about 48 hours now since this started, so I'm guessing it's not her season. I don't understand why it started so suddenly though as she didnt mount/rumbestrut at all for the first 3 days! Effie sounds stressed :(
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Hi! It rather looks like the newbie is reinforcing her dominance but please do not interfere. It should settle hopefully down again.
It is not on the level of severe and really forcefully 'get off my patch' chasing and the protest is vocal but not highly distressed; just what you'd expect from an underpiggy in this situation.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi! It rather looks like the newbie is reinforcing her dominance but please do not interfere. It should settle hopefully down again.
It is not on the level of severe and really forcefully 'get off my patch' chasing and the protest is vocal but not highly distressed; just what you'd expect from an underpiggy in this situation.
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Thank you! Is there a rough time frame for how long it should take to ease? It seems pretty constant so I'm starting to get worried. Effie seemed so happy initially.. now she seems quite quiet as pretty much everytime she moves, she gets rumblestrutted at 😔
 
Jingle and Mistletoe (sisters) went through this when I first brought them home. I cant remember how long it lasted but I never see it now.
 
Sian25 said:
Thank you! Is there a rough time frame for how long it should take to ease? It seems pretty constant so I'm starting to get worried. Effie seemed so happy initially.. now she seems quite quiet as pretty much everytime she moves, she gets rumblestrutted at 😔
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It takes as long as it takes.

But if it continues to get worse, then would see whether a trial separation with a dividing grid will bring an answer. If Effie still wants to be with her new friend, then she will make that clear. If she is ignoring her new partner and is perking up noticeably away from her, then you'll know that the bonding has failed. However, it is not in the range of a full-on 'I don't want you in my space' chase and persecution.
Rather in the range where the newbie is still feeling insecure in her new position but the bond is there.

It has taken longer with ex-single Beryn and her new partner Betsan, to settle down, too.
 
flowerfairy said:
Jingle and Mistletoe (sisters) went through this when I first brought them home. I cant remember how long it lasted but I never see it now.
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Was it constant? There was nothing at all for the first 3 or so days, which is confusing me as it came on so suddenly and now it's all the time! Its giving me a headache :xd: but most importantly, I want my girls to be happy!
 
Sian25 said:
Was it constant? There was nothing at all for the first 3 or so days, which is confusing me as it came on so suddenly and now it's all the time! Its giving me a headache :xd: but most importantly, I want my girls to be happy!
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The first three days were when your newbie was still trying to get her bearings; they don't count towards the the post-bonding dominance phase that lasts around two weeks on average.
 
I was going to say that most of my sow bondings have taken a couple of weeks to settle down. But they are all different. Flo has found her feet and is now stamping them all over the place to show she wants to be boss. It’s piggy hierarchy!
 
When Pippin was bonded with new pig Winny - it has taken weeks to settle down and even now they still have the odd fall out.... Its quite stressful especially when one screams and you think what the hell has happened .... to find they are no where near each other ! Hopefully your girls will settle down soon..
 
Thanks all. I knew bonding was pretty stressful, but I forgot that it was *this* stressful!

I cant see them having a fight -touch wood- because there has still not been anything more than rumblestrutting and chasing out of hidies. Ive not heard any teeth chattering etc, so it's more that I'm concerned about Effies happiness at the moment with the rumblestrutting being so constant. I feel it is getting her down.

Also, with being inexperienced with bonding, it's hard to judge when enough is enough.. like how long do you wait this out before trying a divider?
 
Sian25 said:
Thanks all. I knew bonding was pretty stressful, but I forgot that it was *this* stressful!

I cant see them having a fight -touch wood- because there has still not been anything more than rumblestrutting and chasing out of hidies. Ive not heard any teeth chattering etc, so it's more that I'm concerned about Effies happiness at the moment with the rumblestrutting being so constant. I feel it is getting her down.

Also, with being inexperienced with bonding, it's hard to judge when enough is enough.. like how long do you wait this out before trying a divider?
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The dominance phase is never pleasant, but hopefully it is starting to settle down more over the coming days. It lasts on average 2 weeks until all the dust is settled, but it can go from just a few days to over a month.

See whether taking hideys out of the cage and just leaving two tunnels side by side either right next to each other or at opposite ends will help with the possessiveness.
 
Thank you @Wiebke ive taken the other hidies out for now.

Its been a week since they were first introduced and Flo is still at it 😔 Poor Effie doesnt get a break

 
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From that video @Sian25 it looks like Effie is getting some peace. Flo looked in her tunnel a few times but then left her alone. And Effie isn’t looking distressed or like she’s going to snap. Flo does look a bit like she’s “patrolling” which can be a sign of stress but that’s not looking like that here. She’s just settling in.
Ralph “patrols” in our cage. And i have to say it’s livelier than this at mine. Charlotte has been in with Ralph and Holly for 2 weeks and she and Ralph are still a lot like this. I think it’s just normal.
 
I agree with @VickiA . Flo is a pest, but she keeps well within limits. She is NOT chasing Effie, just what I call 'dominance driving' her at Effie's pace and she is haring off whenever Effie is making it clear that she's had enough. Effie may be rather fed up by now, but the bond is not broken.

I've had this when bonding Beryn and Betsan. It took a goodly while to settle. Beryn still has her moments occasionally and I have to make sure that there are two fabric tunnels so they can't get into a dispute over one as that has been declared the most desirable property.
 
Thanks again as always @VickiA and @Wiebke. Sorry for so many questions/comments/videos, I just worry about them and the last thing I want is them to be unhappy. I'll try and lay off now and see how they go.

@Tiamolly123 they did have more hidies in but tried taking some out to see if it helped Flo's posessiveness
 
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