Ivermectin Vs Permethrin

[Butterfluf]

Hi there,
I've been trying to cure lice in my Guinea pigs for a while now, they have received 2 doses of topical ivermectin 2 weeks apart and it's 2 weeks after the second dose and they still have visible lice but there are less of them. I'm in the shop and see that they have also a permethrin spray which is meant to be stronger and brushed through their fur. Should I get the spray instead or stick to the ivermectin pipettes? Thanks for any advice!

 

[Siikibam]

Was the ivermectin prescribed by the vet?

 

[Butterfluf]

Was the ivermectin prescribed by the vet?

Yes but the vet wasn't super knowledgeable on piggies. They were mostly a vet for larger animals

 

[PigglePuggle]

Hi, most over the counter products are not strong enough to treat problems like lice and mites, prescription strength veterinary medicines prescribed by the vet are usually much better. If you are 2/3 of the way through a course of ivermectin you should complete the course. What strength ivermectin product are you using? And was your vet sure that this was lice? And have you also taken the correct cage hygeine precautions, hot washing any fleeces, disposing of any hay or cardboard furniture, treating or disposing of any wooden furniture, and deep cleaning the cage with F10 disinfectant? Many over the counter ectoparasitics can be very toxic to guinea pigs so I would only treat based on the vets advice!

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, most over the counter products are not strong enough to treat problems like lice and mites, prescription strength veterinary medicines prescribed by the vet are usually much better. If you are 2/3 of the way through a course of ivermectin you should complete the course. What strength ivermectin product are you using? And was your vet sure that this was lice? And have you also taken the correct cage hygeine precautions, hot washing any fleeces, disposing of any hay or cardboard furniture, treating or disposing of any wooden furniture, and deep cleaning the cage with F10 disinfectant? Many over the counter ectoparasitics can be very toxic to guinea pigs so I would only treat based on the vets advice!

Hi!

Ivermectin or selamectin are the active ingredients used in battling guinea pig skin parasites. Please follow your vet's advice and finish the course properly.
If you find that the ivermectin has not done the trick (some strands of lice can be pretty resistent), then discuss a combination of course of spot-on ivermectin and insecticidal baths with your vet, making sure that any shampoo doesn't contain ingredients that are harmful for rodents. You also need to keep in mind that you need to leave 48 hours between any treatment on the skin to allow the active ingredients to be fully absorbed before you can treat again with something else.

Please be aware that pet shops are NOT licensed to sell medication. Their products ar sold as 'prevention', which means that they are not strong enough to cut through an acute outbreak. They are also often broad spectrum products that are frankly ranging from the useless to the harmful and downright toxic/lethal when it comes to flea powders.

Please don't treat on spec with DIY products that will only cost you a lot of money at the shop, will not do the job and inevitably land you with higher vet cost as you'll have to treat an advanced course - not to mention all the unncessary suffering and discomfort for your guinea pigs! Our warning is coming on the back of some very distressing cases where inappropriate DIY home diagnoses and treatment have led to the agonising death of piggies.
Here is more information on guinea pig parasites and their treatment:
What to check and look out for in new guinea pigs (vet checks, sexing, parasites&illness)

 

[Butterfluf]

Hi, most over the counter products are not strong enough to treat problems like lice and mites, prescription strength veterinary medicines prescribed by the vet are usually much better. If you are 2/3 of the way through a course of ivermectin you should complete the course. What strength ivermectin product are you using? And was your vet sure that this was lice? And have you also taken the correct cage hygeine precautions, hot washing any fleeces, disposing of any hay or cardboard furniture, treating or disposing of any wooden furniture, and deep cleaning the cage with F10 disinfectant? Many over the counter ectoparasitics can be very toxic to guinea pigs so I would only treat based on the vets advice!

Hi there, the vet didn't seem to know a whole lot about Guinea pigs and gave a Xeno-50 ivermectin, it's not very strong for the bigger pigs which may be why they still have them. I got beafar 150 from the pet shop but haven't applied it yet. I have been hot washing fleece and using a small animal safe insecticide on their houses and cage and also a small animal disinfectant to clean the rest. I can see lots of little dusty spots towards their ends in their fur, and they are a lot less now than when I started. They had bald patches and scabs that are cleaning up now. The only issue is that they seem to have dry skin around their ears, I've been using Gorgeous Guineas Neem Gel and it seems to help that problem.

 

[Butterfluf]

Hi!

Ivermectin or selamectin are the active ingredients used in battling guinea pig skin parasites. Please follow your vet's advice and finish the course properly.
If you find that the ivermectin has not done the trick (some strands of lice can be pretty resistent), then discuss a combination of course of spot-on ivermectin and insecticidal baths with your vet, making sure that any shampoo doesn't contain ingredients that are harmful for rodents. You also need to keep in mind that you need to leave 48 hours between any treatment on the skin to allow the active ingredients to be fully absorbed before you can treat again with something else.

Please be aware that pet shops are NOT licensed to sell medication. Their products ar sold as 'prevention', which means that they are not strong enough to cut through an acute outbreak. They are also often broad spectrum products that are frankly ranging from the useless to the harmful and downright toxic/lethal when it comes to flea powders.

Please don't treat on spec with DIY products that will only cost you a lot of money at the shop, will not do the job and inevitably land you with higher vet cost as you'll have to treat an advanced course - not to mention all the unncessary suffering and discomfort for your guinea pigs! Our warning is coming on the back of some very distressing cases where inappropriate DIY home diagnoses and treatment have led to the agonising death of piggies.
Here is more information on guinea pig parasites and their treatment:
What to check and look out for in new guinea pigs (vet checks, sexing, parasites&illness)

Click to expand...

Hi there, the vet didn't seem to know a whole lot about Guinea pigs and gave a Xeno-50 ivermectin, it's not very strong for the bigger pigs which may be why they still have them. I got beafar 150 from the pet shop but haven't applied it yet. I have been hot washing fleece and using a small animal safe insecticide on their houses and cage and also a small animal disinfectant to clean the rest. I can see lots of little dusty spots towards their ends in their fur, and they are a lot less now than when I started. They had bald patches and scabs that are cleaning up now. The only issue is that they seem to have dry skin around their ears, I've been using Gorgeous Guineas Neem Gel and it seems to help that problem. Should i use the beafar 150 it is stronger than the vets.

 

[PigglePuggle]

Xeno 50 is rather low strength, and you need to pour on many pipettes to dose a larger piggy- our vet prefers to prescribe Xeno 450 for any adult piggy, even if you only need half a pipette on the smaller piggies! So you might ask the vet about that x

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hi there, the vet didn't seem to know a whole lot about Guinea pigs and gave a Xeno-50 ivermectin, it's not very strong for the bigger pigs which may be why they still have them. I got beafar 150 from the pet shop but haven't applied it yet. I have been hot washing fleece and using a small animal safe insecticide on their houses and cage and also a small animal disinfectant to clean the rest. I can see lots of little dusty spots towards their ends in their fur, and they are a lot less now than when I started. They had bald patches and scabs that are cleaning up now. The only issue is that they seem to have dry skin around their ears, I've been using Gorgeous Guineas Neem Gel and it seems to help that problem. Should i use the beafar 150 it is stronger than the vets.

I note you say you haven’t used it, but please don’t use the beaphar from the pet shop - products that you can buy from pet shops are not medications and will not deal with problems like this

 

[Siikibam]

First thing I would strongly advise is that you don’t use the beaphar. Those shop sold meds aren’t strong enough to deal with whatever they’ve been designed for.

Secondly, how many treatments were you to apply to the piggies and did you complete the course?

Did they give you any to take home in case they still had the lice? And did they weigh the piggies before stating how much you need to use? How much do they weigh?

I would find a cavy savvy vet and take them there to be checked again. I’ve linked the thread below for recommended vets. Hopefully you can find one nearby.
Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

 

[Siikibam]

Xeno 50 is rather low strength, and you need to pour on many pipettes to dose a larger piggy- our vet prefers to prescribe Xeno 450 for any adult piggy, even if you only need half a pipette on the smaller piggies! So you might ask the vet about that x

Agree. Xeno 50 treats piggies up to 300g with one tube. One tube of xeno 450 treats guinea pigs 800g+

 

[Butterfluf]

First thing I would strongly advise is that you don’t use the beaphar. Those shop sold meds aren’t strong enough to deal with whatever they’ve been designed for.

Secondly, how many treatments were you to apply to the piggies and did you complete the course?

Did they give you any to take home in case they still had the lice? And did they weigh the piggies before stating how much you need to use? How much do they weigh?

I would find a cavy savvy vet and take them there to be checked again. I’ve linked the thread below for recommended vets. Hopefully you can find one nearby.
Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

Hi, that's a pity I thought it would be good to get as it looked like the exact same stuff. I'll have a look at the thread thank you, I live in Ireland and it's really hard to find a vet nearby that knows about Guinea pigs. They gave me two 450 for my two big ones at the start and only gave 50 for the re application. I have 3 piggies who are roughly 2-3 months old. When I weighed last week the 2 small girls were roughly 300grams but they look bigger since. I didn't weigh the little boy recently but he is bigger than the girls. The adults I didn't weight and one is actually pregnant and I didn't realise, I asked the vet at the time and she said she didn't think she was pregnant but she is definitely I have since found, I did not give her the second dose (so I have 1 50 xeno left). They were very expensive for such small amounts

 

[Butterfluf]

Agree. Xeno 50 treats piggies up to 300g with one tube. One tube of xeno 450 treats guinea pigs 800g+

At the time I did have 3 piggies who were under 300 g and they had 2 tubes each at this stage, the adults had one tube of 450 each and still have lice and I was given another 50 for a follow up for the adults but one is pregnant so I didn't give her her second dose all the rest have had seconds.

 

[Butterfluf]

That's the both of them together the pet shop one even says it has ivermectin I really thought it would be good to use

 

[Siikibam]

I’m not too sure about the use of xeno in pregnant piggies so will tag @VickiA (sorry hope you don’t mind), @Abi_nurse @PigglePuggle @furryfriends (TEAS) and see if they can help on that point.

As an aside, was your girl pregnant when you got her? Is she inaccessible from the boy (if he’s still intact)?

They should theoretically not have lice anymore unless it was a bad case. I would check them again (including pregnant girl) and then decide how to move forward.

 

[Piggies&buns]

That's the both of them together the pet shop one even says it has ivermectin I really thought it would be good to use

It may contain ivermectin but it won’t be prescription strength, so won’t really do anything to help

 

[PigglePuggle]

OK well Xeno 50 does sound appropriate for such small piggies, and I do think you need to be careful using ivermectin on pregnant animals, as it is absorbed into the body through the skin. Best check with the vet if you still think there are lice, get them to clarify the safety during pregnancy and the repeat dosing, usually Xeno 50 and Xeno 450 is 3 seperate doses 2 weeks apart. You do need to be careful with under-dosing as it will select for ivermectin resistant lice, the more naturally resistant ones will survive a low dose then breed, and any future ivermectin treatments may not be effective!

 

[Butterfluf]

I’m not too sure about the use of xeno in pregnant piggies so will tag @VickiA (sorry hope you don’t mind), @Abi_nurse @PigglePuggle @furryfriends (TEAS) and see if they can help on that point.

As an aside, was your girl pregnant when you got her? Is she inaccessible from the boy (if he’s still intact)?

They should theoretically not have lice anymore unless it was a bad case. I would check them again (including pregnant girl) and then decide how to move forward.

Hi, she was pregnant when I got her and had her babies and she was in with a boy for her pregnancy and she gave birth earlier than expected and unfortunately I don't think I was quick enough to separate them he was with her for a couple of hours before I woke up. I separated them straight away after that. If it wasn't him she had a baby boy but I think i separated him in time that he couldn't have been the culprit. It's a pity but I think she's health besides the lice she eats and moves around (she's the only one I can't visibly see the lice on because of her fur colour). It said on the back of the packet not to use on pregnant or lactating Guinea pigs possibly because the ivermectin goes into the blood stream and might Harm the babies. When I looked it up there's an 8% chance they would still have lice it's typical luck one of the little ones has a sore on the side of her mouth I can attach a picture if it helps. I checked in her mouth and couldn't find any lodged food so I'm not sure but I may have to bring her to the vet anyway if it doesn't clear up.

 

[Siikibam]

One if my girls had black hair but I did see the lice on her. Check carefully to make sure. Or take them to a vet for a general check. I would also take the young one(s) to the vet to be checked over.

 

[Butterfluf]

OK well Xeno 50 does sound appropriate for such small piggies, and I do think you need to be careful using ivermectin on pregnant animals, as it is absorbed into the body through the skin. Best check with the vet if you still think there are lice, get them to clarify the safety during pregnancy and the repeat dosing, usually Xeno 50 and Xeno 450 is 3 seperate doses 2 weeks apart. You do need to be careful with under-dosing as it will select for ivermectin resistant lice, the more naturally resistant ones will survive a low dose then breed, and any future ivermectin treatments may not be effective!

I really hate lice! Thank you i just said in a different post that I might need to bring them back to the vet anyway because one of the little ones has a sore on the side of her mouth. (I can attach a pic if it helps). I don't want to move the pregnant one at the moment because I think she might be close I can visibly see things moving around a lot inside.

 

[Siikibam]

How far long do you think she is? If I remember correctly it’s roughly a 72 day pregnancy.

You can post a phot if you want but we really can’t diagnose through that. Let us know how you get on at the vets.

I have to get some sleep so will catch up later tonight.

 

[Butterfluf]

One if my girls had black hair but I did see the lice on her. Check carefully to make sure. Or take them to a vet for a general check. I would also take the young one(s) to the vet to be checked over.

Really? I will have to look at her again. I think she's close now to giving birth because I see movement so I don't want to cause her any stress by picking her up and pawing her. She just does a little vibrating purr when I touch her and tries to kick my hand away so I don't want to be annoying her so close. I have a feeling it will be in the next few days cuz I see very strong visible movement

 

[Butterfluf]

How far long do you think she is? If I remember correctly it’s roughly a 72 day pregnancy.

You can post a phot if you want but we really can’t diagnose through that. Let us know how you get on at the vets.

I have to get some sleep so will catch up later tonight.

I think roughly 60 days by guessing.

 

[Siikibam]

Ok then possibly wait and see. Is she on the ‘pregnancy’ diet? I would start a thread in that section of the forum for any worries you have about the pregnancy and subsequent birth and newborns. Please make sure that any boars can’t get to her, and are not in the cage with her.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Please take the little one with the sore on her mouth to the vet. We obviously cannot diagnose any problems, but a sore around the mouth would be a concern for cheilitis which can be very nasty and needs to be treated.

 

[PigglePuggle]

Well lice may be very unpleasant and irritating but they are not immediately life threatening, and I think ivermectin would be passed on in mum's milk and could harm the babies- so if you think she is close to giving birth it may be better to leave her in peace and go back to the vet about the lice issue with the whole new family when the babies are a couple of weeks old and should have a routine vet check anyway, assuming and hoping she has a straightforward birth without complications. The piggy with the sore mouth should see the vet though, but regarding the lice if these piggies live together please explain clearly to the vet who lives with who and what treatment each has had when, as you will need to co-ordinate your lice treatments so they are all treated together!

 

[Butterfluf]

Hi I was just reading the packaging of both the vet prescribed spot on and the pet shop one and they both say on the box "this is not a veterinary medicine which is subjected to authorisation by the health products regulatory agency

 

[Siikibam]

Xeno is prescribed by vets - if it wasn’t appropriate it would be withdrawn. I would avoid beaphar and see what to do once they’ve seen the vet again.

 

[Butterfluf]

Well lice may be very unpleasant and irritating but they are not immediately life threatening, and I think ivermectin would be passed on in mum's milk and could harm the babies- so if you think she is close to giving birth it may be better to leave her in peace and go back to the vet about the lice issue with the whole new family when the babies are a couple of weeks old and should have a routine vet check anyway, assuming and hoping she has a straightforward birth without complications. The piggy with the sore mouth should see the vet though, but regarding the lice if these piggies live together please explain clearly to the vet who lives with who and what treatment each has had when, as you will need to co-ordinate your lice treatments so they are all treated together!

I understand if the mum still has the lice the little ones will still have them even if I treat them. They are all doing so much better than they were originally and the Neem gel from gorgeous guineas really helps with the dry skin. I'll wait for them to see a vet but I might take the little one with the sore (Nami) to the vet. I had a feeling it could be chelitis :/ all the rest don't seem to have mouth sores it's just one thing after another I hope I can get them all healthy soon!

 

[Butterfluf]

Xeno is prescribed by vets - if it wasn’t appropriate it would be withdrawn. I would avoid beaphar and see what to do once they’ve seen the vet again.

I will take them both to the vets and see its just weird that they say the same disclaimer on the packaging. But I won't use the beaphar anyways.