Jasmine and Leo not getting along very well

HeatherW

Forum Donator 2019/20
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,673
Points
1,125
Location
Manchester
I'm not sure if I'm noticing it more because I'm now in the same room as them, but there have been some flare-ups between Jasmine and Leo. I never see what caused it to start; I usually hear clacking teeth and then witness the behaviour afterwards.

This is a video I took of it this morning. Leo seems to be very defensive. Jasmine doesn't usually go for him, or at least that I've seen.


Do you have any thoughts? Are they no longer compatible and/or should I consider separating them? I took Jasmine out just now to chill them both out.
 
Last edited:

HeatherW

Forum Donator 2019/20
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,673
Points
1,125
Location
Manchester
I've put them both back together now and they're behaving fine with each other. No drama! However, it's happened a few times now, so it'd be good to understand why they're stressing each other out!
 

Siikibam

Forum Donator 2020/21
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Messages
11,455
Reaction score
13,869
Points
2,125
Location
Home
Oh I felt that tenseness just from watching... It seems Jasmine is the instigator. Is she in season at all, or it’s just random? And when did you start noticing it? What has happened in the past when these flare ups happen - did they calm down themselves or did you have to intervene?

I would maybe separate them for a day or two to calm down then re-introduce. I’ve no experience at all with a boar/sow pairing but if any of my pairs were like that then that’s what I would consider doing.

ETA: seeing your second post I would keep a close eye on them and see.
 

HeatherW

Forum Donator 2019/20
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,673
Points
1,125
Location
Manchester
Oh I felt that tenseness just from watching... It seems Jasmine is the instigator. Is she in season at all, or it’s just random? And when did you start noticing it? What has happened in the past when these flare ups happen - did they calm down themselves or did you have to intervene?

I would maybe separate them for a day or two to calm down then re-introduce. I’ve no experience at all with a boar/sow pairing but if any of my pairs were like that then that’s what I would consider doing.

ETA: seeing your second post I would keep a close eye on them and see.
That was my thought as well. Jasmine has had ovarian cysts, so perhaps some of it is hormonal. Most of the time they get on fine and are very loving with lots of eye licks, but then there are moments like this and it makes me wonder!

Leo seems to clack his teeth at some invisible signal (to me) from Jasmine, but he's clearly on the defensive here. I wondered if Leo may have pushed some boundaries and tried to become lead pig, and Jasmine wanted to make it very clear that wasn't going to happen!

This particular episode was much more tense than previous ones they've had; it was very similar to their first attempt at bonding.
 

Siikibam

Forum Donator 2020/21
Joined
Jul 31, 2017
Messages
11,455
Reaction score
13,869
Points
2,125
Location
Home
I was going to ask how they were in the beginning with regards their relationship. Did you have to separate and try bonding again or did it settle down? I’m wondering if there was ‘something’ there from the beginning...how long have they lived together now?

You say she has had ovarian cysts, was she spayed then?
 

Wiebke

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
74,278
Reaction score
49,222
Points
3,466
Location
Coventry UK
I'm not sure if I'm noticing it more because I'm now in the same room as them, but there have been some flare-ups between Jasmine and Leo. I never see what caused it to start; I usually hear clacking teeth and then witness the behaviour afterwards.

This is a video I took of it this morning. Leo seems to be very defensive. Jasmine doesn't usually go for him, or at least that I've seen.


Do you have any thoughts? Are they no longer compatible and/or should I consider separating them? I took Jasmine out just now to chill them both out.
Jasmine (I assume that she is the white piggy?) doesn't seem to like Leo in her personal space. Leo is clearly not happy and is doing his best to stay out of her way. Personally I would consider it a failed bonding if it was one of mine unless you are dealing with an ovarian cyst problem that can be sorted as quickly as possible before the relationship deteriorates any further. Ovarian cysts are one of the issues that can lead to one of the fall-outs in mixed gender pairs.
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
 

VickiA

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
24,310
Reaction score
32,860
Points
2,465
Location
Cheshire, England
Oh that’s uncomfortable to watch. Has Jasmine always been so aggressive? Is she on any treatment for her cysts? Poor Leo doesn’t look like he wants to cause trouble - he’s just trying to stay out of her way.
 

HeatherW

Forum Donator 2019/20
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,673
Points
1,125
Location
Manchester
Yes, Jasmine is the white pig. This is the most aggressive I've seen it. I've come downstairs again this morning to disgruntled noises, but not to anywhere near the same degree as yesterday. Jasmine had treatment for ovarian cysts in March/April and they've apparently gone after three weeks of hormonal injections and a scan (28 July). Even if they seem to get on most of the time, you wouldn't consider these two to be compatible anymore?
 

HeatherW

Forum Donator 2019/20
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,673
Points
1,125
Location
Manchester
It used to be just Jasmine and Pickle, but not long after I got Leo (they'd been living with a divider for three weeks and had only been together for a total of five days), Pickle died after an operation to remove her ovarian cysts. Leo seemed to have joined at the right time!

Jasmine and Leo seemed to have been getting on so well (see the videos here: Current mood), but maybe Jasmine is a bit too dominant for him? To be fair, Leo isn't the best at personal space having previously been kept with five other boars in too small a cage and he's had to learn some manners!
 

VickiA

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
24,310
Reaction score
32,860
Points
2,465
Location
Cheshire, England
When was she last seen by the vet? It may be worth discussing this behaviour with them. When I’ve had sows rampaging like that we have opted to spay them and the behaviour has improved immediately. It may be that the hormone treatments are no longer as effective for her as they once were?
 

HeatherW

Forum Donator 2019/20
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,673
Points
1,125
Location
Manchester
When was she last seen by the vet? It may be worth discussing this behaviour with them. When I’ve had sows rampaging like that we have opted to spay them and the behaviour has improved immediately. It may be that the hormone treatments are no longer as effective for her as they once were?
The hormonal injections were given end of March/beginning of April, but she only had a scan in late July to check they'd worked because of lockdown. I was told to monitor her behaviour and see if she's uncomfortable going to the toilet as the hormones have thickened her uterus. The vet said he thought this would be better for now than a spay, and she should have a scan every six months unless I notice any change before then. She's now on 0.4ml of dog metacam twice a day long term too.

Here's a video of them after I put them back together about 30 mins ago. This is how it normally is. There's been more disgruntled noises since with a bit of teeth clacking when I cam back to check up on them, but I didn't have to interfere and it's since calmed down again.


I don't know if you can hear Leo's rumblings! He seems to cut her off and get in her way a lot. Perhaps Jasmine's just a bit fed up every now and then, or am I being too anthropomorphic?

And it's started up again! Time to separate...
 

HeatherW

Forum Donator 2019/20
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,673
Points
1,125
Location
Manchester
So, I've put up a divider and their initial reaction was confusion. Leo doesn't seem to like it! He's got a short memory, bless him. ;) Their behaviour is similar to when I first introduced them to each other in this way, albeit nowhere near as frantic or relentless on Leo's part.


They're both currently sat eating their piles of hay and all is calm.

20200829_120245.jpg
 

HeatherW

Forum Donator 2019/20
Joined
Feb 9, 2018
Messages
1,288
Reaction score
4,673
Points
1,125
Location
Manchester
My OH has since seen Jasmine licking Leo and chewing his hair through the bars, as is their normal behaviour! Maybe Jasmine is currently experiencing a strong season, and it's caused a bit of upset. I'm going to continue to keep them separate until tomorrow and see how it goes in the morning.
 
Top