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Jesse Has Pneumonia

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He's really off his food today :( only taking 1-2ml of food in one sitting :(
 
You could ring them and see if they will arrange a payment plan. I have heard a few vets will allow this if it helps the cost I do hope he pulls through. Healing vibes being sent your way x
 
Thanks - have suggested this to my other half. The RVC vet (Jo, a guinea pig specialist) is off today and not back until Monday however the receptionist called her and then she called our vet, who have supplied the GP specialist with his treatment plan so far.
She'll then call our current vet back with an advised treatment plan if this makes any sense - whether this involves any further treatment, PTS or going to see her in London we have no idea, but at least she's going to have more answers for us I hope.
 
Still no call back from the vet. I'm home now so it's my feeding shift. He's a bit squeaky which could be good or bad. Normally when we hold him he's very chatty and squeaky but since he got ill it just breathing we hear. Now there's half squeaks making me wonder if the clicking was part that too as if he lost his voice. he keeps laying on his side on me n I panicked then realised he does that when comfy. He's never done it on me before so hope he's comfy and not leaving us! He does occasionally get up and wriggle through and does put up a fight when needing the loo. Surely enough strength to get out of our feeding hands means he's not wholly a lost cause.
 
It does sound like he has some fight still.

My Buzz had pneumonia and was left with a very husky wheek, hardly came out at all.
 
Hi db
I have to admit i am concerned to learn today of the lack of Jesses's progress over thursday/friday especially looking at the video
I am hoping today that his breathing has improved - please update

In the video he really is struggling to get enough oxygen. (Also - please be aware that Head lolling and "shifting onto his side" can also be signs that there is insufficient lung function owing to fluid or other pressure on the lungs and he keeps altering position to increase what little lung capacity he currently has)

Now in some cases, respiratory issues involving fluid (especially in heart pigs) can be exacerbated with higher room temperatures or sudden large variations in temperature. Our weather has been really up and down over the last few days depending where in the country you were when the recent low/front was over us. Here in East Sussex temperatures dropped suddenly to 13deg C Thurs whilst 25miles further west in Guildford they were still sunshine and 22deg C. So this "may" account for the lack of improvement in breathing thurs/fri but it may not. However please ensure the room temperature where he is currently residing is kept relatively constant (18-21deg C is best)

Looking at where you can go from here in terms of your discussion with the vets - and assuming his breathing hasn't improved by today - there are 3 areas in order of importance.
a) Most importantly - Breathing issues
This is the main life-threatening problem atm. Jesse had injectable diuretic on Day 2 and 3. I can understand the vet not wanting to give a third injection in view of the fact re-hydration (subcut fluids) was necessary on Thursday and as Helen has said it is always a balancing act in thee cirumstances. However - for information/discussion with your vet - With extremely fluidy pigs in acute respiratory distress, my vet opts for a high dose daily for 2 days (10mg/kg injectable) to kick-start the fluid removal process. At the same time I am under instructions to get as much fluid into the piggie as possible (5-10 ml fluids every 2 hours). If they show signs of dehydration (pinch/tent skin at back of neck - it it doesn't return and instead stays standing then piggie is dehydrated) then its back to the vet for sub-cut fluid injections. The diuretic is reduced stepwise (normally by 2mg/kg each day over the next 3-4 days either injection or oral) by which time the lung should be relatively clear and the bacteria being killed off by the antibiotic.

I would suggest you discuss with the vet the logistics of re-instating the diuretics (perhaps more agressively depending upon what dosage he was previously given). I would however add the proviso that if you and bf feel you can't realistically get enough fluid into him then perhaps consider boarding a couple of days at a 24hr vet hospital so that subcut fluids can be administered if required. You are both already knackered form the last 5 days, can't keep travelling back and forth to vets (possibly paying out of hours bills) and I can assure you it is not an admission of failure to ask to board a sick guinea pig, especially if they may need Oxygen, fluids or regular feeding during the night. Even with my skills and experience, I have boarded sick pigs for a few days with my vets for a brief "respite" or because I know they are in the best place if other interventions may be needed.

b) Bacterial resistance/Guinea pig superbugs:
Jesse is now on Day 6 of marbocyl which should have kicked in by now and started to reduce the bacterial burden. In doing so I would have expected his breathing to improve also (although this may be a separate issue - see below). Although marbocyl is a heavier hitter than baytril, it still is the same family of antibiotics. In my own experience, my vet now prefers if possible to take nasal/throat swabs and culture before deciding on an antibiotic - because over the years we have found a high prevalence of baytril- and septrin-resistant staphylococcus and streptococcus. (The two bugs most likely bugs to cause URI's in piggies). If the pigs is so ill that we can't wait for a culture (i.e. pneumonia) and need to start treatment straight away, then my vet routinely uses doxycycline now as first choice antibiotic for URI's in piggies...because it is also used to treat Bordetella which is also often the cause of a URI/pneumonia in piggies (especially with fluid accumulation) but difficult to isolate on culture.

Given there is no nasal discharge - I suggest you discuss with the vet the merits of taking a throat swab for culture to try and identify the organism and which antibiotics it is sensitive to. Bear in mind however that, given Jesse has been on marbocyl for 6 days, this approach may be not be considered as a good use of time/resources/money as it may not show up anything useful now. As an alternative however, now is the time to consider either swapping antibiotics when marbocyl hits it's 7th day of administration... or introducing a second in conjunction with a lengthier time of marbocyl administration

c) Is anything else going on? i.e. Complications/Interference of pre-existing conditions
Possibly yes. Often persistent or chronic fluid/URI-type issues can be indicative of heart problems - but Jesse is presenting slightly differently from normal in that his current condition has clearly developed over an acute period of a few days and is most probably initiated by a URI leading to pneumonia with fluid in the lungs - and that might still be all it is.
Nevertheless, seeing the video of Jesse's breathing recalled to mind my little Alan Maggots. He showed very similar breathing issues to Jesse - also head lolling/shifting position/lying on his side when he was at his worst. But he didn;t have an ongoing URI/pneumonia....and his heart sounded fine by stethoscope and looked fine on Xray. He was an outwardly healthy pig that just couldn't breathe. After many months/lots of tests including Xrays, ultrasound etc (whilst he had very laboured breathing episodes that were very sensitive to elevated temperatures) he was finally diagnosed via Echocardiogram with chronic endocarditis. This is where a previous URI infection (often Streptococcus) gets into the blood stream and as a result damages one of the heart valves. Although the bug has long gone, the condition essentially becomes a chronic heart issue treatable with heart meds. (Alan M had an extra 12 months on heart meds before, despite cooling fans etc, a heat wave last year overloaded his little heart and after he suddenly keeled over for a few seconds, we felt that the best thing was for him to then be helped to The Bridge)

It could be that the marbocyl is not halting the spread of the bug and it is now in the blood stream affecting the heart. OR.....It could be that Jesse already had a sub-clinical heart issues that has now arisen to complicate/exacerbate his current infection and that is why he is not making as much progress as expected.

I agree with Helen that further imaging diagnostics might be necessary to find out exactly what is going on in his cardiovascular/respiratory systems given Jesse's slow response to current treatment. However, given his current respiratory symptoms I think whatever is done should be done without the necessity for a GA and therefore I would suggest you need to talk to the vets about their "procedures" for various tests , and their experience and ability to interpret the results and cost vs benefit. An ultrasound rather than X ray may be your best bet (because that can be done without GA - my vets do it) - but if your vets (partic at Camden) are prepared to do an Echo without GA then that might be better still.

I'm guessing you may be now having to "wait it out" til monday and Jo's return
Over the weekend I suggest that
a) you aim to get as much fluids and food into Jesse as regularly as possible - aggressively if needs be. 20-30ml food and the same in fluids 4hourly (can stagge them if you wish. Also Dandelion leaves are a great natural diuretic. Grass helps stimulate the apetite/keep the teeth worn down
b) ensure his gut keep moving/poos are coming out - do you have any more metoclopramide to give him? If not please PM me.
c) iF...... his breathing gets any worse .... you need to go to a decent emergency vet - have you identified one - would that be Camden? And regrettably you "may" need to prepare yourselves about helping Jesse to The Bridge. A piggie dying from acute respiratory failure is not something that can be "left" to cuddles.....helping to The Bridge would be the best option to avoid further suffering. I apologise if this seems a bit blunt/in your face..but you need to be prepred.
d) Please don;t lose heart - you've done incredibly well to get Jesse this far.....and you still have options.

Warm hugs to you all
x
 
Hi Pebble. Thanks for your reply.. On phone atm and only slept in 2hr slots last night to feed etc. We got 41ml of Critical Care in him yest and it's a struggle to get him to swallow. Our vet opens for an hour tomorrow, do you think we should ask for him to stay there for hydration and feeding? Will they do it by iv or syringe like us? He won't touch any food now so no dandelion unfortunately, which is one of his favourites. He does have poos which are solid and seemingly quite frequent although a lot smaller. He is on 0.1ml metoclopramide twice a day (as well as marbocyl 0.4ml a day and metacam 0.3ml once a day, but worried the latter might be affecting his appetite more?) we started a probiotic today.

He has been on our living room and we put heating on yest due to drop in temp. Trying to keep it 19c in here. He's been on the marbocyl since Monday btw, the other 2 drugs were started on Thursday.

BTW wondering about you knowledge, where do you learn all this? Thanks so much for this input.

I do worry what we have done to make him this sick. Thankfully his brother (nicknamed adhd pig) is completely fine. Ooh on Thurs the vet also gave him some saline fluid under his skin in little lumps if that makes any sense? Thanks for your support. This really isn't helping my own ongoing illness but Jesse is our only priority x
 
Hi db
I'm assuming no news today means good news and the lovely Jesse is still with us.... so "C'mon little man"!
Just want you to know that all the piggies (and me) are thinking of you all today and sending positive vibes to Jesse.
x
 
Thank you all! Jesse passed away earlier this afternoon and is now on his way to Rainbow Bridge where he is no longer suffering and doesn't get Critical Care shoved down his throat.

The second vet we saw (Seers Croft nr Horsham) in Sussex were amazing, we took him there last night for a second opinion and straight away he had an xray, diuretic injection, subcutaneous fluids and a nebuliser. He made it through the night staying at the vet and his breathing started to calm.

At lunchtime he was stable but about half an hour ago we got the call saying nature had made the choice so we didn't have to. My little chronic illness therapy baby is coming home and we'll bury him under a rose called 'Happy Times'.

Unsure if we should show our other pig his body so he can grieve too. I worry we should have taken him to a gp specialist sooner but we can't do anything now. If love could have saved him it would have a thousand times over.

He was such a gentle, sweet, loving little guy, and clever too. He toilet-trained himself, he had a Sheldon Cooper-style 'spot' on my chest and I will never forget his eager little face whenever I put him on my knee where he'd climb me as fast as he could, shuffling his bum into the position for optimum comfort.

We're relieved it's over for him but so, so sad. He was very special to us both in his short life. Again - thank you to everyone for your support and help this week. He held on for 6 days, stubborn and refusing to give up just like his mummy! x

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I'm In tears writing this...

I'm so so sorry db that little Jesse didn't make it. Rest assured, you did EVERYTHING you possibly could for dear little Jesse...and then went above and beyond yesterday evening.getting him to another vets. If ONLY there were more owners like you...and more importantly more cavy savvy vets.

Jesse is now at peace at Rainbow Bridge with a lovely rose to remember him by. By all means introduce his body to his cage-mate - but don;t be surprised if there is no reaction.
Please don;t blame yourselves for anything ....even with hindsight!

Happy Times Jesse

x
 
So very sorry to hear Jesse passed away. He was lucky to have such kind & loving owners like you & be so well cared for.
 
I am so sorry to read this :( You did everything you possibly could for your little guy. Sadly pneumonia is very serious in piggies & quite a few don't make it unfortunately. Hope you are ok x
 
Thank you everyone. The support I/we have found here has been amazing. I have been a member for ages but never really posted until I was googling and saw the support/knowledge here which resulted in this massive thread. Now you're stuck with me and I hope I can help other owners in my position in the future.

I'm the mad animal lover in the house - I grew up with dogs, chickens, hamsters, guinea pigs, lizards, rats and a rabbit but as an adult moving to London I never was in a position to responsibly own a pet. My boyfriend had gerbils as a child but that's it, his family have pet allergies so it was amazing to see how he warmed to our little pet family. We moved out to Surrey a year ago and after our hamster, we decided guinea pigs were a nice commitment upgrade. They're the sweetest little beings and have been an amazing comfort through a year of health diagnosis etc. Jesse was more of a lap pig and loved cuddles - he'd lick and nudge and nuzzle unlike his brother Machete "ADHD pig" who can't sit still. We keep our pigs outdoors on the patio (with cover on hutch) but bring them into the house every night, and they sleep in the bath sometimes when the weather gets too cold.

We brought Jesse home from the vet yesterday and placed his dear little body in our garden run, then brought his brother to see. It was odd to watch - we kept his face mostly covered as seeing his lifeless little body was so hard for us. Machete (do read my profile for the name explanation!) had a sniff of Jesse's bum and face, then walked onto him, he was standing on Jesse which was a bit upsetting, then seemed to lick his side. Then he just walked off and ate grass. Hmmm. Machete is definitely the pack leader, and if Jesse would have been the survivor we think he would be the upset one.

We then buried him with his rose, I kept getting him out of the box and stroking him beautiful soft fur one last time, but then we had to bury him. Then my fiancé and I had a cuddle and a cry, then removed all his medical paraphenalia from the living room where we'd been camping with Jesse on a rota basis for the past week in a 'little but often' feeding plan and constantly monitoring his breathing. It's been an exhausting week and watching the little dude suffer has been horrible.

If anyone's a music fan, I love this song...I'm called Kim and I have been known to dance around the living room with Jesse on my shoulder singing this to him like the saddo I am haha:


At the start of the week Machete was clearly missing Jesse (as we separated Jesse into his 'hospital box') and was sitting in his place, going in Jesse's tube and squeaking the place down, but as he's seen him ill for a week he may have already started grieving before he died.

Now we need to get another piggie for company. It's hard thinking we're already replacing Jesse so so soon (less than 24h after he passed to the big carrot in the sky) but then we realise we are not replacing him. He is irreplaceable, we are merely seeking another friend who will enrich our lives in a different way and be the little brother that Machete needs. Looking around rescue websites feels terrible though.

I cannot recommend Seers Croft vets enough and as soon as our next ill piggy shows signs of not feeling too great, we'll be taking him there despite the hour's drive. Their care, kindness, professionalism, efficiency and compassion is unparalleled - thanks @Pebble for recommending them to us.

Thank you ALL for your support xxxxxx
 
Absolutely gutted for you both, so very sorry. You did everything you could for him and are a credit to him, you really are.
I love that song too, you'll never forget little Jesse and please don't think you are replacing him it is a natural part of the grieving process you are going through by looking for a friend for Machete.

Jesse has left his paw print on your heart forever.

Massive hugs to you both x x
 
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