Long term antibiotic experience?

[CV26]

Hello.
Has anyone had an experience of giving piggies antibiotics for months or even years?

Dash and Spud are on Baytril and have been since January. Before that we tried several courses of ABs but nothing cured their respiratory illness and they had varying symptoms and complications resurface when they weren't on ABs, sometimes within as little as 24 hours after stopping.

As a result two specialist vets recommended to keep them on ABs long term. The alternative was invasive, risky and expensive with no guarantees of a different outcome. We voted for ABs as they seemed happy in themselves and it seemed they had a quality of life as they were.

We tried a short break a few weeks ago on the vets advice, but within 48 hours we started to see symptoms and weight loss so I put them straight back on.

They have a probiotic too and so far no digestive issues. But I'm aware there is a risk of resistance.

I go in every day worried about whether the Baytril is still working for them.

I know it's a crystal ball type thing as to how long the Baytril will work for, and what we'll have to do next if it stops working. But I just wondered if anyone could share their experiences of long term antibiotic use at all?

 

[sport_billy]

@Wiebke ever heard of this?

 

[Wiebke]

I have no personal experience but I know of a few cases where this was the only option. It's not very common, though, so you won't likely find much feedback.

It is one of these situations where you and your vet have to weigh up the longer term benefit/risk balance; it is never quite as clear cut as you think or would wish. Do you want your boy to live with his respiratory symptoms without knowing how long he will live with them or would you rather he had a happy life free of them at the risk that he may or may not develop resistance down the line and may have a somewhat shortened life expectancy?

The problem is that what you are desperately looking for are certainties and assurances, and that is the one thing nobody can give you. You always have to make a choice in good faith and stick with it; that is what it comes down to at the bottom line. Any adult life is full of these kinds of choices you have to make without knowing the outcome, unfortunately... As long as your choice feels right in your heart or in your gut, it is usually one you can live with in the long term, whatever happens; because it is the right choice for you.

Guinea pigs measure their life in happy todays; they are not having a concept for an average life expectancy. When your vet or you are making these kind of decisions, it is always important to also take into account what your piggy would prefer - not just you. Opting for an improved quality of life as a potential trade off for a shorter life span can be well worth it; especially if you concentrate on the quality of life and see every day as an extra bonus and create lots of happy memories.
One of my happiest memories is from a boar I only had for one year; he was already 5 years old when I adopted him but Bryn Oscar the name deaf packed a life time's worth of fun and games into this one year of utter bliss for him that when he died it felt so much longer than the actual time he'd been here. I still have a big grin on my face every time I remember him.

What you can do is to discuss with your vet whether a trial for giving baytril only every second day may be worth if your boy is totally stable on the baytril.

 

[CV26]

Thank you @Wiebke

They both have the same illness but are very happy boys as far as I can tell. The Baytril is stopping their condition worsening and we're currently looking at other options to help manage some of the lingering symptoms a bit better.

I know there is no answer. The alternative to medication is either surgery or to stop and see what happens. Neither of those seem like the right choice when they seem so happy...albeit on twice daily meds. Their weight is doing well and both of them are more affectionate with me than they've ever been.

I did wonder about dropping to one dose a day but the vet wasn't convinced. It seems that no antibiotics isn't an option, but perhaps an altered rhythm is something we could experiment with at least to rule it out if nothing else. I'm seeing him next week so I can ask again.

 

[Freela]

Sundae was on long-term Baytril (a couple of years) for bladder issues. We never saw any ill effects from it... luckily she tolerated Baytril very well, unlike some of my other pigs!

 

[CV26]

Thank you @Freela
My boys are tolerating it well so far. They have a probiotic to help with any tummy issues too just in case, but it's been 12 weeks now and things seem stable. We have a good routine on the go and I'm lucky that they've taken well to all the handling.

 

[Toots33]

Thank you @Freela
My boys are tolerating it well so far. They have a probiotic to help with any tummy issues too just in case, but it's been 12 weeks now and things seem stable. We have a good routine on the go and I'm lucky that they've taken well to all the handling.

I know this an old thread but do you mind me asking what happened in this situation and if you carried on with the Baytril or opted for further tests? We are in exactly the same situation with one of our guinea pigs and unsure what would be the best decision for her.

 

[CV26]

My boys have been on Baytril permanently since Jan 2021, although this year we have managed to drop them down to one dose a day (0.08ml/10% Baytril).

We have tried stopping it completely but their symptoms returned within a day or two. We were worried that eventually we wouldn't be able to bring them back to their current state of health so we haven't tried another stop recently.

But whilst it's kept their respiratory problem at arm's length, it's obviously had other consequences. They were youngsters when we started on the antibiotics and Baytril isn't really recommend for younger pigs, but it seems to be the only thing that's worked for their respiratory problem.

We had blood tests done a few months ago. They're both showing signs of liver problems and are on the path to liver failure thanks to the Baytril. The vet has prescribed some additional medication as support (but not cure).

They're both underweight for an average adult male piggy, and a bit boney too thanks to the liver issues. We've been giving them Emeraid every day since the blood tests and they have gained a bit of weight each which is good to see so the liver support is doing something at least.

All parties are pretty confident that they'll never be cured, so we're just making sure they have the best life possible now. You wouldn't think they were poorly the way they wheek for veggies and speed round their cages!

They'll be two this summer...we never thought we'd get them this far after everything.

 

[Toots33]

My boys have been on Baytril permanently since Jan 2021, although this year we have managed to drop them down to one dose a day (0.08ml/10% Baytril).

We have tried stopping it completely but their symptoms returned within a day or two. We were worried that eventually we wouldn't be able to bring them back to their current state of health so we haven't tried another stop recently.

But whilst it's kept their respiratory problem at arm's length, it's obviously had other consequences. They were youngsters when we started on the antibiotics and Baytril isn't really recommend for younger pigs, but it seems to be the only thing that's worked for their respiratory problem.

We had blood tests done a few months ago. They're both showing signs of liver problems and are on the path to liver failure thanks to the Baytril. The vet has prescribed some additional medication as support (but not cure).

They're both underweight for an average adult male piggy, and a bit boney too thanks to the liver issues. We've been giving them Emeraid every day since the blood tests and they have gained a bit of weight each which is good to see so the liver support is doing something at least.

All parties are pretty confident that they'll never be cured, so we're just making sure they have the best life possible now. You wouldn't think they were poorly the way they wheek for veggies and speed round their cages!

They'll be two this summer...we never thought we'd get them this far after everything.

Thank you, this is so helpful and I’m really pleased to hear your boys have done so well even with long term medication. They sound very happy.

I think this is the route we’re going to take. Daisy is 4 now and has been prescribed Baytril on and off since Jan this year. Exactly the same issue that whenever we’ve tried to stop, she goes downhill again within a few days. I don’t want to put her through tests that may not give us any answers and could stress her out and make things worse. She seems to be ok with the Baytril at the moment so I’m reluctant to do anything that might unsettle her.

Thanks again.

 

[CV26]

I'm sorry to hear about Daisy. I hope you find a path through that's right for you and her.

It's clear from the blood test results that my boys aren't well. But the important thing to me is that they're telling me they're happy - right now I can hear them thundering around their cages upstairs. I'll keep doing what I can for them untill they tell me they've had enough.

Don't forget a good probiotic if you do continue with Baytril. We use Oxbow digestive support tablets too...not sure of they have any real benefit but the boys love them.