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Loosing weight

Guinea Newbie

Guinea Newbie

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi,
Last Thursday (a week ago) I posted asking for advice about Trifle who had blood in his urine. We did 5 days of dog Metacam (0.2ml twice a day). He responded well to this, perked up and started to eat more normally.

When we went to the vet she weighed him and he was 1100grams. She said he felt underweight and to try and feed him separately to his over weight brother (crumble is 1300grams, he does feel podgy). She advised to stop Crumble’s nuggets and only give them to Trifle. We have tried this by placing a temporary divide in their c&c cage but crumble gets rather cross and tries his hardest to break through.

On weighing Trifle again tonight he weighs 1024 grams now. He’s lost 76 grams in a 9 day period.

When we went to the vet she checked his teeth and said they were ok but I have noticed he eats a lot more slowly than his brother. Tonight I have just put the nuggets back in the cage as i’d rather crumble ate them and Trifle had constant access as he needs them.

He happily eats his hay and veggies, is drinking and pooing normally.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Thanks.

Ps They are 18 months old and we have had them 3 weeks now.
 
Hmm..can they not take a blood sample? Maybe just to be safe. I am no vet, but any sign of weight loss for reasons not obvious may need to be looked at
 
Guinea Newbie said:
Hi,
Last Thursday (a week ago) I posted asking for advice about Trifle who had blood in his urine. We did 5 days of dog Metacam (0.2ml twice a day). He responded well to this, perked up and started to eat more normally.

When we went to the vet she weighed him and he was 1100grams. She said he felt underweight and to try and feed him separately to his over weight brother (crumble is 1300grams, he does feel podgy). She advised to stop Crumble’s nuggets and only give them to Trifle. We have tried this by placing a temporary divide in their c&c cage but crumble gets rather cross and tries his hardest to break through.

On weighing Trifle again tonight he weighs 1024 grams now. He’s lost 76 grams in a 9 day period.

When we went to the vet she checked his teeth and said they were ok but I have noticed he eats a lot more slowly than his brother. Tonight I have just put the nuggets back in the cage as i’d rather crumble ate them and Trifle had constant access as he needs them.

He happily eats his hay and veggies, is drinking and pooing normally.

Any advice would be very welcome.

Thanks.

Ps They are 18 months old and we have had them 3 weeks now.
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Hi!

What kind of metacam have you been prescribed, dog or cat (dog metacam is three times stronger than cat metacam) and is that twice daily or once daily? Has your vet prescribed any antibiotics?

Has your vet checked for potential urinary tract infection, bladder or kidney stones or sludge, bacterial cystitis (responds to antibiotics) or sterile interstitial cystitis (sterile IC does not respond to antibiotics)?
All these things can present with bloody urine and cause weight loss; in the case of stones especially if they get stuck in the urethra (bladder to exit) or the ureters (kidneys to bladder). An x-ray may be the next step to eliminate any stones/sludge in the system.
Guinea Lynx :: UTI

Please step in with syringe feeding top up to help keeping the weight up until the culprit as been found and addressed. It is a support measure but not a cure, but it is important as most weight loss is caused by pain issues somewhere in the body. You adjust the top up feed in addition to the normal food intake by weighing daily at the same time.
Please keep in mind that over 80% of what a piggy is eating in a day should be hay, hay and more hay - which you cannot control by eye. Veg and pellets are more in the way of a daily treat and should be only a small part of the daily diet. Also keep in mind that more calcium in the diet can come from hard water and pellets but that overfeeding on calcium righ veg can also contribute to stones.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Weight - Monitoring and Management

I would also recommend a review of the diet as to its calcium content: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
 
Ellie-May said:
Hmm..can they not take a blood sample? Maybe just to be safe. I am no vet, but any sign of weight loss for reasons not obvious may need to be looked at
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Taking a blood sample from guinea pigs often requires anaesthesia as the dont have a tail vein where rodent blood samples are normally taken from- the blood is often taken from a major vessel in the neck, and carries some risk. For a small amount a toe may be snipped, but you would need to be sure what you were testing for.
There are many other things to discuss with the vet first like teeth, gut function, a uti or uri infection, or this most obvious one of not getting a fair share of the food, before opting for any invasive tests.
@Guinea Newbie did your piggy get any antibiotics if a uti was suspected? Or did the vet take a urine sample to look at under the microscope or culture to see if bacteria were present? These would be the obvious and less invasive places to start...
 
With the blood in the urine were you not given any antibiotics in case of infection? Metacam will only deal with pain but blood in urine is likely to be an infection or stones which are highly unlikely to disappear on their own
 
Ellie-May said:
Hmm..can they not take a blood sample? Maybe just to be safe. I am no vet, but any sign of weight loss for reasons not obvious may need to be looked at
Click to expand...

Hi!

Taking blood samples in guinea pigs is anything but easy and not necessary in this case.

We have designated members with a special signature in this section that monitor it regularly and whose knowledge we fully trust in order to make sure that any members looking for help get good advice.

Please post your support or sympathy; or - if you have them - any personal experiences on the same problem in this section but do not throw things into the round you are not familiar with. This in order to not confuse worried members looking for support unnecessarily. ;)
 
Wiebke said:
Hi!

Taking blood samples in guinea pigs is anything but easy and not necessary in this case.

We have designated members in this section with a special signature whose knowledge we fully trust in order to make sure that any members looking for help get good advice.

Please post your support or sympathy; or - if you have them - any personal experiences on the same problem in this section but do not throw things into the round you are not familiar with. This in order to not confuse worried members looking for support unnecessarily. ;)
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Sorry, did not mean to come across as though I was throwing things around. I did say that I wasn’t a vet, but I would just say anything (big or small) that you are uncertain about it is best to just go straight to a vet as it helps to not waste time, but the people on this forum helped me today with Ernie so it is good to listen
 
It was the dog metacam. We finished the 5 days on Tuesday and at the moment his pee looks fine. The vet meant to give him pellets to try and help him gain weight.

Since we found out about the UTI I have been reading the advice re the longterm diets and lower calcium options for the veg. They have loads of hay in constant supply and he appears to be eating it ok.

I think a return to the vet might be on the cards.

Should I keep permanent grids in their c&c cage to keep them separate (but able to see each other) so I can monitor what’s being eaten? It’s the less dominant piggie who is loosing weight and I suspect he’s not being allowed to eat as much as he should too. When they are separated it just results in a couple of hours of on off dominance behaviour though.
 
Hi,
No we weren’t given antibiotics and no urine samples were taken. She said to call back if there was no improvement and we could x-Ray to check for stones. The blood stopped and he perked up, so I thought all was ok. He’s just still loosing weight. I do also feel that he’s not being allowed to eat his fair share too though. Although, it could also be related to being unwell.
The vet did also suggested that the blood in the urine may have been brought on by the stress of moving to a new home and I didn’t realise at the time but my youngest child had held him (with my husband) the day before the blood started, this could also have stressed him out. He’s the one that doesn’t like to be held really.
 
I think its quite unusual that a vet wouldnt take a urine sample and also prescribe a week's worth of baytril just in case of an infection as a starting point for urinary problems... an xray would be helpful to check for stones, but much easier to test for/assume a bladder infection first... is your vet experienced with guinea pigs? I think you should be asking about testing for and/or treating a minor infection first, if that doesnt help then an xray for stones, assuming a diagnosis of stress related rather than infection or stone related cystitis is rather a last resort after the more common and curable urinary problems have been ruled out I think...
 
Ok, thank you so much. I will phone the vets and get to see someone to rule out an infection.
 
Guinea Newbie said:
Hi,
No we weren’t given antibiotics and no urine samples were taken. She said to call back if there was no improvement and we could x-Ray to check for stones. The blood stopped and he perked up, so I thought all was ok. He’s just still loosing weight. I do also feel that he’s not being allowed to eat his fair share too though. Although, it could also be related to being unwell.
The vet did also suggested that the blood in the urine may have been brought on by the stress of moving to a new home and I didn’t realise at the time but my youngest child had held him (with my husband) the day before the blood started, this could also have stressed him out. He’s the one that doesn’t like to be held really.
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Boars need to re-establish their hierarchy in any new surroundings, so you will inevitably see some dominance behaviour after a move to a new home or a change in the cage.
Sudden dominance behaviour has also often alerted me to an illness. In my experience it is much more often a reaction to illness and not bullying (before you consider the latter you always need to close out any medical angles).

Please see your vet again for further examinations. The loss of weight means that something is not right. A semen rod in the penis shaft may also be looked at.

Please have a look at the front teeth: in a healthy dental system these are self-sharpening and have an even edge. Slanted or jagged edges point to uneven chewing with the molars at the back that are ground down by the very abrasive silica in hay and grass.
Inward pointing incisors mean that the premolars and molars at the back are overgrown and are bridging the tongue so that the incisors no longer meet. This is a quick dental check you can do at home.

But it is good that you have been given dog and not cat metacam because the cat metacam dose would be so low as to be ineffective. Please always split any metacam and give one half every 12 hours to accommodate the much faster metabolism in guinea pigs. In severe pain you can even safely give your daily dosage twice daily.

We have got a recommended UK vet locator on the top bar, by the way. Recommended Guinea Pig Vets
 
Guinea Newbie said:
Thank you for all your help, I will contact the vets to get him checked over and raise the points mentioned above.
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All the best! I hope that you can get to the bottom of this and allow your boy to get better.

Please keep any further questions and updates to this thread so we have all the pertinent information together and can tailor any further recommendations and support to what is really relevant for you without repeating ourselves or giving potentially misleading advice without being able to refer back to what has happened so far. This thread will accompany you and your piggy for as long you need any support. ;)
 
I would say don’t separate them. Do they have two bowls and two feeding areas?

Perhaps try hand feed everything in the meantime, dominant piggy first of course. Or take them both out and sit them on opposite sides to you. Or give them their food at opposite ends of the cage. Does the dominant pig steal his friend’s food?
 
Yes, they have two of everything and yes the dominant one will try and steel the other one’s food! The dominant one eats much faster than the other one, so when he has finished his food he then tries to take the other one’s food. They each have a house, food bowl, hay rack and water bottle at opposite ends of the cage.
 
Update - this morning there is blood in his pee again. We are definitely looking at a bladder / UTI related issue. The trouble is being Sunday the vet ‘on call’ is very unlikely to be a piggie experienced vet. My thoughts are to start him on the Metacam again to relive any pain (I have some left), it’s dog Metacam at 0.2ml x 2 daily. He’s eaten his morning veg, some hand fed pellets and is happily munching hay this morning. He came to see me when I went to say good morning, so he’s alert and eating and drinking.

Would a stop gap of Metacam for 24 hours be ok until I can see someone who actually knows what they are doing?

Thanks
 
Ps - I can’t work out how to add my location but I am in Bath. My vet which is a big branch with many satellite centres does apparently have someone who is more experienced with piggies than the vet he saw the week before last.
 
Personally I would continue with the metacam but I would be tempted to see the emergency vet for antibiotics especially if he is showing signs of pain. An unknowledgeable vet is much more likely to give a prescription of baytril as it's the only licenced antibiotic for piggies. You could try that for several days-1 week and see whether it changes. If not or his pain gets worse then you can book him in earlier
 
Hi there - your story sounds very similar to what I experienced with Gizmo earlier this year. If your pig is eating/drinking/pooping normally I think should be ok to wait until tomorrow although keep a close eye all day.

Gizmo was prescribed baytril which upset his stomach and didn't solve the problem. We then tried a 4 week course of sulfatrim which has cleared up the blood although we are still battling to put the weight back on (he also had an X-ray to rule out possibility of stones)

If you don't already have some it would be a good idea to have some critical care (or similar support food) to hand in case any anti-biotics upset the gut.

Healing vibes to Trifle!
 
Ok, thank you. I have spoken to the vets this morning and they recommended seeing their piggie experienced vet tomorrow and said to continue on the Metacam in the first instance and to call in the morning for an emergency appointment. I will ask for a sample to be taken tomorrow. But... in the mean time I am now not convinced it is Trifle peeing blood as crumble came out of the house and there was blood in the corner of it. I have cleaned the cage out and put one piggie in the carrier to try to determine exactly who it is. I think I just assumed it was Trifle as he has had he problem before. The carrier is in the cage with them so they can still see each other. Hopefully before long they will both pee and I can reunite them! Once I know for sure who it is I will start the metacam.
 
Which type of emergency care food would be recommended for a piggie who has bladder issues and may possibly have stones ie - low calcium.
 
Guinea Newbie said:
Which type of emergency care food would be recommended for a piggie who has bladder issues and may possibly have stones ie - low calcium.
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Until you are sure that calcium/stones are the problem, I would just feed as normal, especially until you see the vet- if they need syringe feeding you can use mushed up pellets, or Critical Care, or Science Selective Revovery Plus. Best of luck with the vet tomorrow x
 
Another update - It took me most of the day to work it out but it’s actually Crumble who is peeing blood, not Trifle as suspected. He’s squeaking when he pees too. So I have started him on 0.2ml metacam twice daily, 12 hrs apart. Vet appt tomorrow.
A question - last night he gorged himself on pellets, could this have anything to do with the blood in his pee today? He hasn’t had any pellets for a week as the vet told me to stop him having them as he is supposedly over weight. Having read a recent thread on weight with a very useful comment by Wiebke I now think perhaps this is just his ‘normal’. Trifle who is loosing weight is more of a concern. I put the pellets back in the cage last night to allow him easy access and crumble literally pigged out on them. Could it be linked or is it unlikely?
 
Guinea Newbie said:
Another update - It took me most of the day to work it out but it’s actually Crumble who is peeing blood, not Trifle as suspected. He’s squeaking when he pees too. So I have started him on 0.2ml metacam twice daily, 12 hrs apart. Vet appt tomorrow.
A question - last night he gorged himself on pellets, could this have anything to do with the blood in his pee today? He hasn’t had any pellets for a week as the vet told me to stop him having them as he is supposedly over weight. Having read a recent thread on weight with a very useful comment by Wiebke I now think perhaps this is just his ‘normal’. Trifle who is loosing weight is more of a concern. I put the pellets back in the cage last night to allow him easy access and crumble literally pigged out on them. Could it be linked or is it unlikely?
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I think the link is unlikely, for pellets to cause blood in the pee then the excess calcium would need to build up in the kidneys and bladder over time to form stones, a process taking weeks or months. But sudden diet changes are not a good idea, rather than going all or nothing with the pellets maybe a small portion (we do about 12 pellets each piggy per meal) that you hand feed to make sure they both get a fair share?
Hope your vet is amenable to doing the proper tests tomorrow to rule out any infection before anything else x
 
Umm, I thought that probably wasn’t the most case, thank you PigglePuggle. Out of interest how do they test Guinea Pig urine, i.e. how do they collect some?
 
Guinea Newbie said:
Umm, I thought that probably wasn’t the most case, thank you PigglePuggle. Out of interest how do they test Guinea Pig urine, i.e. how do they collect some?
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Most piggies will pee on demand if the vet presses their bladder a little, that's usually enough to test. In an emergency or to ensure the urine comes straight from the bladder and isnt contaminated with bum bacteria they might sedate the piggy and put a needle into the bladder, but that's quite unusual and for more advanced tests- usually just pressing on the bladder as part of the routine external examination is enough to make piggy pee on the table!
 
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