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Loosing weight

PigglePuggle said:
Most piggies will pee on demand if the vet presses their bladder a little, that's usually enough to test. In an emergency or to ensure the urine comes straight from the bladder and isnt contaminated with bum bacteria they might sedate the piggy and put a needle into the bladder, but that's quite unusual and for more advanced tests- usually just pressing on the bladder as part of the routine external examination is enough to make piggy pee on the table!
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Red off-on pees and squeaking when peeing is typical for the onset of a UTI or cystitis and not so much for a stone or sludge.
A urine test at the vets will usually check for blood in the pee (note that expressing pee will usually cause a tiny amount of bleeding), protein levely (raised levels are an indication of an infection), and the may also test for the presence of crystals and bacteria. ;)

if you want to bring some collected, preferably fresh urine for testing, here are tips: How To Collect A Urine Sample
 
Thank you for that too Wiebke. That’s exactly as he’s presenting. On-off red pees (hence why it’s taken me a while to work out it was him) and this evening the squeaking also started. Hopefully it’s just a UTI and easily sorted with antibiotics.

It’s such a shame, as we were so excited about getting them, we’ve only had them 3 weeks and they have both had urinary problems and Trifle seems to be loosing weight. Poor little things. They’ve had to cope with moving homes and being ill. It makes me wonder if this is why the lady no longer wanted them, as their health doesn’t seem to be good, but I will give her the benefit of the doubt and assume they were loved and well cared for.
 
Wiebke said:
Red off-on pees and squeaking when peeing is typical for the onset of a UTI or cystitis and not so much for a stone or sludge.
A urine test at the vets will usually check for blood in the pee (note that expressing pee will usually cause a tiny amount of bleeding), protein levely (raised levels are an indication of an infection), and the may also test for the presence of crystals and bacteria. ;)

if you want to bring some collected, preferably fresh urine for testing, here are tips: How To Collect A Urine Sample
Click to expand...
Last time we had a suspected UTI, Blodwen sprayed pee in the vets face while having her bladder felt! And that was enough pee to do the urine tests for blood and protein with a dipstick test, and also to make 2 microscope slides that the vet checked straight away for crystals and for bacteria. Half an hour and we learned there was bacteria in her pee and a bit of protein and blood but no crystals, we got some baytril antibiotic prescribed and thankfully she was fine a week later :)
Please do have the confidence @Guinea Newbie to politely insist that your vet does these basic tests, diagnosing and treating a possible UTI should be quite straightforward, its only if the tests are all negative and/or if treatment fails that you need to consider other options x
 
Thank you, I will do. We are going to see the vet that has the most guinea pig knowledge in the practice so I hope she will know her stuff.
 
The vet today:
Crumble - she said it would be unlikely to be a bacterial infection and to carry on with 0.25ml dog metacam twice a day. He isn’t squeaking anymore and no more blood since starting it yesterday so I will have to see what happens when we finish the metacam. He is alert, eating, drinking and pooing as normal.

Trifle - the prognosis doesn’t look as good unfortunately. He has lost another 6grams over night. He is however eating, coming out for his veggies and drinking. His teeth look good, he had food in his mouth and his heart/breathing were both fine. The vet said it could be a mass somewhere, it’s unlikely to be stones as urine is ok and the blood hasn’t returned, She said to monitor the weight daily and if he gets below 800g we may need to consider putting him to sleep. 🙁
He is the most anxious of the two and in the 3 weeks he has been with us he has moved house, had a UTI and also had a cage upgrade. I asked if it could be stress related and the vet sad possibly. If his weight stabilises then that would be the likely scenario. In their old home they were in a child’s bedroom, with us they are down stairs in our living space. Should I consider moving them to a ‘quieter’ area, if it might be stress related or would another move create even more stress...?
I am going to buy some forage type foods/different hay and vit c supplements to try and help and encourage weight gain.

Does anyone else have any ideas? If it’s stress related I feel syringing him would just cause him more stress. Open to anything to help him gain weight.
Thanks
 
Has Trifle had anti-bioitics? If not then that should be the first port of call. Although he has metacam he will still be in some pain which will result in weight loss. If he is otherwise behaving normal then there is no need to put him down. I would get a second opinion.
 
No, no antibiotics. He had metacam last week and has been fine wee-wise since stopping it.
I am desperate to help him gain weight. At the moment he is behaving normally in all other aspects.
 
Metacam is treating the symptom (pain) rather than the underlying issue. Without treating the pain it will be hard for him to gain weight but you can try to stop him losing more weight with supplementary syringe feeding.

I don't think it's so grave as to put him down without trying antibioitics! I'm very new to this as despite owning guineas for 20 years I have only experienced bladder issues in the past few months. I know how scary it is when they keep dropping weight (Gizmo was 1150g before getting ill and is hovering round 800-850g even 3 months later).

So hopefully someone more knowledgeable will post soon!
 
Yes I totally agree, but as Trifle isn’t the one presenting with uti symptoms at the moment the vet was reluctant to give him antibiotics.

I have just got back from picking up food supplies for them and trifle is trying to eat but Crumble (the dominant piggy) keeps chasing him off the food. There is food at both ends of the cage and we have 2 of everything. They are in a 2x4 c&c, I can make it a 2x5 when the extra fixings arrive. There’s a lot of dominance behaviour going on. I wonder if food hogging has
a lot to do with Trifle’s weight loss too.
Does it ever get to the point that they can’t live together without actually having a proper falling out...? Ie one being so dominant that the other is too stressed by it to properly thrive? Whenever Trifle tries to eat Crumble chases him or mounts him etc.
Hopefully it will calm down, I daren’t leave them alone at the moment!

Foodwise - they were on a meadow and Timothy mix from pets at home. I have switched this to a Burgess Timothy hay and a Burgess feeding hay with marigold and dandelion. I also bought them a Burgess mountain meadow herbs mix to sprinkle into their hay and a woodlands summer meadow box to try and give variety.

They are on science selective pellets, should I change to a different one...?

Finally, Crumble has exhausted himself and passed out so Trifle is finally able to eat in peace!
 
Hi, Trifle is still loosing weight. When we got him 3 weeks ago he was 1,100g (weighed at the vets). I then weighed him on Saturday and realised he was loosing weight.
Last week - 1,100g
Saturday - 1,024g
Sunday - 986g
Monday - 990g
Tuesday - 984g
Wednesday - 978g

I took him to the vet on Monday and she said he may have a tumour, she couldn't find anything specific to suggest a tumour but said it could explain weight loss. He appears to be eating, but obviously not enough to maintain his weight. I have syringed him a bit but he gets so anxious (I can feel his heart going really fast) that I wonder if it’s actually helpful to him.

Could there be any other reasons for weight loss?

They have meadow and Timothy hay all the time, veggies in the morning and pellets in the evening.

Thanks
 
What was he at the vets for last week?

There are lots of reasons for weight loss. Pain, physically unable to take in enough food, unable to eat due to other needs (need to breathe and need to drink comes first).
 
He had blood in his urine last week. They gave him Metacam for that and he’s been fine for 8 days now. He’s drinking lots and eating but seems to be gradually loosing weight. The vet said his teeth, breathing and heart were all fine. He is the less dominant pig and I also wonder if he’s not being allowed to eat as much as he should. He was just out eating and when my other piggy came out he shot into his house. There always seems to be dominance behaviour going on. Low pitched rumbling, mounting, chasing etc.
 
Do you have two bowls? And put them at least a body length apart so dominant pig can’t hog both at the same time. Another alternative is to hand feed them.
 
What checks were done for the blood in his urine and has his urine been checked again? ( Blood isn't always visible). I'm sorry to say but metacam alone won't do anything, it's just a pain relief. Blood in urine usually indicates a UTI which would also need an antibiotic to clear up or stones which need an x-ray to confirm. Most knowledgeable vets will treat with antibiotics in the first instance if the piggy is doing ok before an x-ray and only x-ray if things don't improve. When my Donald had stones he was running over to his food and eating eagerly but would quickly stop eating because of the pain so he wasn't eating enough even though he wanted to
 
Yes they have two of everything at opposite ends of the cage. There is blood in the cage again this morning so I will have to go back to the vets.
 
Lady Kelly said:
What checks were done for the blood in his urine and has his urine been checked again? ( Blood isn't always visible). I'm sorry to say but metacam alone won't do anything, it's just a pain relief. Blood in urine usually indicates a UTI which would also need an antibiotic to clear up or stones which need an x-ray to confirm. Most knowledgeable vets will treat with antibiotics in the first instance if the piggy is doing ok before an x-ray and only x-ray if things don't improve. When my Donald had stones he was running over to his food and eating eagerly but would quickly stop eating because of the pain so he wasn't eating enough even though he wanted to
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If it’s an inflammatory cystitis and not infection based, then Metacam alone will do the trick!
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
If it’s an inflammatory cystitis and not infection based, then Metacam alone will do the trick!
Click to expand...

Ok, I just meant usually but was typing early in the morning. For most common conditions metacam will not solve the problem.

@Guinea Newbie unfortunately when it's not obvious what's causing the problem it does become a process of elimination to narrow down the possibilities. I would pop him back to the vets to look at next steps. In the meantime maybe start separating them briefly at veggie time so you can monitor how much he is eating and whether he's stopping quickly which could be from discomfort or whether he's just not getting enough access
 
Thanks both for your replies. Both pigs seem improved now, and Trifle who was loosing weight has slowly started to gain again. As of last night and tonight we are up 20 grams!
Crumble - no more blood (it was just a small one off piece of wood shavings) and he is happily eating all foods and as I type is destroying a carrot cottage. I spoke to the vet and they wanted to carry on with Metacam a while longer. I need to keep a close eye on him, over the last 24hrs there has not been anymore blood either. I am beginning to wonder if I could I have mistaken a red patch for red pepper residue?!?!
 
Is it normal for weight to fluctuate daily? Last night Trifle was 1,000g and tonight he is 976g. He was 1,100g when we got him 4 weeks ago. He steadily lost weight going down to 978g, then started to gain and last night we hit the 1,000g mark which I was relieved about. Then tonight he’s back down to 976g.
 
Yes it can fluctuate. The difference can be a full or empty bladder. Do you weigh him at the same time every day? I try and weigh in the morning before veg.
 
Ok thanks, yes I do weigh at the same time every day, usually it’s in the evenings for us. When we reached 1,000g I was so pleased that he seemed to be gaining again, but now we are back down to where we started. He appears to be eating normally so we will just keep going and see what happens.
 
24g down isn’t too too bad. If he’s eating and more importantly pooping, then that’s good.
 
Yes, he’s eating and pooing normally, just cleared out a load of poos from his corner of the cage!
I will monitor and see how he goes and maybe give him some porridge oats to try and help.
Thank you!
 
UPDATE / ADVICE
Finally our adopted guinea pigs Crumble and Trifle are off all medication and their urine seems normal. However, Trifle is still loosing weight. He started off at 1,100g when we got him and is now 944g, the lowest he has been. He’s been seen by the vet twice who can’t find anything wrong. She said he may have a tumour that’s not obviously showing through examination. He is alert, eating, getting excited for veggies etc but just loosing weight. His teeth are also apparently fine. What could we do to help bulk him back up?

His brother was at 1,300g when we got him and went down to 1,019g when he had his uti, but is gaining now and at 1,142g this evening. Should I just up the pellets to help weight gain, they have hay all the time and veggies once a day. 1 tablespoon of pellets each a day too.

Not sure what to do to help him put weight back on. It worries me that it’s not stabilising and is still dropping.
 
I'm not sure that upping the pellets is the right way to go about it - it’s not the right kind of nutrition. I know that some feed oats as a way of getting weight back on. Is he being syringe fed?
The problem of course is even if you can get weight on him, whatever is the cause of the problems is still going to be there
 
If the vet cant find anything wrong I should just continue to monitor his weight, especially if you havent had him for that long- possibly he gets more exercise and a healthier diet with you and this is the weight he should be? You could try some oats or grated sweet potato as bulking up foods, but if the vet says he's ok and he still seems to be happy and well in himself I would see how his weight goes over the next couple of weeks, its quite normal for piggies to gain or lose a bit of weight with a new home that brings a new activity and diet regime, is his heft (the feel of how much fat over the ribs and hips, you should still be able to feel the bones under a nice layer of fat and muscle but without them being visible) ok? Or is he becoming noticably bony?
 
Thank you both - Unfortunately I think he’s now boney. He’s Peruvian which makes it tricky to see but when handled he does feel boney. In their old home they were in a 120x60 cage, I have got them in a 2x4 c&c with the view to moving them into a double 6ft (I know levels don’t count) hutch in April/May when it’s warmer. So they do have more space to move around than they did. I am also feeding them less pellets and different veg. They used to have kale and spinach as their daily diet. They now have red pepper, cucumber and romaine lettuce as their main staples and i’ve also been giving some sweet potato to try and help with weight. I have tried oats but they just get ignored. I have also moved them onto Burgess Timothy hay as they were on Pets at home meadow and it didn’t look that appetising/nutritious.
I suppose all I can do is monitor, they vet said if he’s gets to 800g then that would be cause for concern.

Piggies&Buns - As far as syringe feeding goes, I haven’t been doing it recently but did a couple of weeks ago with mushed up pellets. Wouldn’t that just be filling him up on pellets though which you said wouldn’t be the right kind of food...?
He is eating on his own though and he’s the more nervy of the two so haven’t wanted to stress him out more than needed.

Perhaps it’s a ‘watch and wait’ or more a ‘watch and hope’.
 
Best of luck- we are all just guessing and hoping along with you, unexplained weight loss is always a worry and very tricky to diagnose if it isnt teeth or obvious illness, we would always say consult the vet but you've obviously invested a lot in vet care for your piggies, and if you trust the vet and they have successfully treated your other piggy, unless you wanted to seek a second opinion from another vet, I think it is just watch and wait and hope his weight stabilises!
 
Pellets aren’t overly good for them so I meant that filling up on pellets would be like us using pizza to gain weight. We’d gain but it would be the wrong kind. There is a difference between overfeeding pellets and syringe feeding (as an emergency type measure) to keep their system going if it is lack of food intake. You say he’s eating though so that is obviously a good thing!
Perhaps though if there has been a change in diet between their old home and being with you and the medical issues then things just need to stabilise and it is just watch and wait.
 
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