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Lump, And Some Weight Loss/depression?

Froggerella

Froggerella

Junior Guinea Pig
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Oct 30, 2015
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Location
Wirral, UK
Before anyone asks - I have a vet appointment in less than an hour, so will update after that!

I noticed at the weekend that Cube (my last remaining rescue pig, who used to be cagemates with Rubix who passed away in December) has a lump near his bum. It doesn't appear to hurt him when I touch it, but he's not a fan of it being touched (then again, that's just him with his hind area in general). Last time I felt a lump like this, it was on Rubix and turned out to be an abscess.

Additionally, I've noticed Cube has been a bit withdrawn since Bix died. He's still eating fine, but I notice now that food is being left - I've obviously adjusted the amount of food I'm putting in there, since there's only one of them now as opposed to two, but Cube is usually my most active 'food hoover' - it's rare he leaves anything! I weighed him yesterday and, while he's still a very healthy weight and still close to his normal weight, he has lost a little - not yet enough to be concerned about, but I'm definitely going to mention it to the vet later on today.

Obviously, I don't know what the lump is yet, and I really hope it's nothing too serious. However, I also believe that Cube may be grieving/depressed after losing Bix.

I'm gradually trying to introduce Cube to my other lone boar, Etch - they're now housed in the same room, so can hear/smell each other, and they get on fine on neutral ground, I just haven't got to the point yet where I feel confident putting them in the same hutch - especially as I know I'll need to be around to monitor that for a while, so it's also about finding a day when I won't be in and out the house! I think next week will be my week, as I don't have any appointments and have annual leave, so fingers crossed... But I'm wondering if other owners who have lost one part of a piggy pair have seen similar behaviour in their remaining pig?

Anyway, I'll update this thread once I've come back from the vets... Please keep your fingers crossed for Cube.
 
UPDATE: It was an abscess. The vet said it seemed like it may have already burst itself and was already clearing up, and that the lump was mostly just thickening of the skin around it now. She drained it, and I'm to wash it with warm salty water for the next few days to keep the wound clean. Cube is on Baytril twice daily, and Metacam once daily - other than his bald patch where he was shaved, he seems fine!

She agreed he's probably missing Bix, and that it's a good idea for me to wait until next week when I'm on annual leave to give Cube and Etch the proper time to hopefully bond.

As I was paying, it felt like I had about half the vets surgery crowded around Cube's carrier to coo over him and his pink eyes! He was pretty relaxed about the whole thing, as he is about life in general - definitely my most docile pig!
 
So we're on day 6 of Cube's meds now - Baytril twice a day, and Metacam once a day. He's normally got a very good appetite (he's a chunk!), but I've noticed the last few days he's leaving most of the veg I put out for him, and his hay and kibble aren't cleared out the way they usually are. He's still a good weight, and he is eating some things, just not his usual amount. I'm just wondering if either of the meds he's on can affect a pig's appetite?

If it continues, I've got critical care left over from when I was nursing Bix, so I have that as an option. Also have a follow up appointment at the vets on Wednesday if I need it. I'm just wondering if the meds are affecting his appetite as a side effect, or if this could be something more.
 
I've just been doing some googling and searching old posts on here, and can see Baytril has had a lot of comments about loss of appetite in pigs. I've just weighed Cube and he has lost weight, although is still a good weight... I'm going to syringe feed him cc fine grind for the next couple of days and see if that kickstarts his appetite/stabilises his weight.

He left the broccoli and rocket I gave him yesterday, but still seems keen on lettuce, and carrots to an extent, so he's still eating - just not as much as normal.

I can tell already that syringe feeding will be fun with him... He despises the medication, even the metacam, which my late pig Bix (his old cagemate) ADORED - I think it was the sweet taste of it. Bix was great for accepting the syringes, Cube not so much. Weirdly, he seems a little calmer about it if I sing Linkin Park or Ed Shereen to him while doing it though :))
 
Yes, Baytril can suppress appetite in piggies. The usual recommendation is to give probiotics (Pro-C, Avipro or similar) an hour or so before or after a dose of Baytril. Fibreplex can also help.
I'm currently syringe feeding a poorly pig too, and have discovered that though he will take Critical Care, he loves Supreme Science Recovery Food - nearly falls off my lap trying to reach for it when I'm hand feeding him! Perhaps you could try some of that and see if he takes it more easily than meds or CC.
 
Ha, I'll give that a go if I don't get any joy from the CC! I think Cube just generally objects to anything being forced on him at the moment, but unfortunately that's just tough for him - only a couple more days of his meds anyway. I've got a probiotic on order from Amazon prime now, so that should be here tomorrow - I'll add that in to his routine to see if it helps.

Hope your poorly pig is feeling better soon.
 
Another update: after Cube's nighttime dose of baytril and metacam last night, he began to have diarrhoea. I spent a while last night syringe feeding him critical care since he's not eating a great deal at the moment, and also liquids as I know diarrhoea can dehydrate him. I'm waiting on a call back from the vets at the moment - I won't give him any more baytril until I've spoken to her about this. The probiotic I ordered is due to arrive today, but I'm guessing that's not going to be much good if Cube has an intolerance to baytril (which I've read is common).

His energy levels are still fine for now, and he was munching a bit on his hay last night. He also seemed to quite enjoy his syringe feeding last night... I'm keeping an eye on him and will keep topping up his fluids for now. Any advice is welcome while I wait for the vet to return my call!
 
Thanks, @Froggerella .

I've not had to treat diarrhoea, but I guess that some probiotics would help his tummy get back to normal even if you do take him off Baytril. If the Baytril is to treat infection in the abscess, you could perhaps ask for Zithromax instead - it's usually better than Baytril at clearing that sort of infection. Hope Cube gets better soon.
 
I've spoken to the vet now - she said this is a known side effect of both the baytril AND the metacam, and that she suspects it may be the metacam causing it. She's advised I don't give any more of that, but continue with the baytril (only two doses left, both today) and keep his fluid intake up. I've got the probiotics now and mentioned them to her - she was about to advise them, which is good! Any further issues I'm to get back in touch immediately, otherwise we can wait until the follow up appointment on Wednesday to see how he's doing.
 
Great advice from @Qualcast&Flymo , @Froggerella . If he's struggling with the Baytril then the vet will be able to provide a different antibiotic for you to swap too.

The probiotics will help, even if he's still on Baytril. You're doing a great job, keep up with the handfeeding of food and water
 
***URGENT REQUEST FOR HELP***

I've just given Cube the last of his baytril, as recommended by the vets (NO metacam), and have also been giving him a probiotic via syringing him water today, since he's had diarrhoea since last night. He's pretty much refused the critical care tonight, but has been keen on the water with the probiotic so has had a fair amount of that.

However, I've just put him back in his hutch, and within a couple of minutes I noticed a patch of bright red blood. This seems to be diarrhoea that has turned bloody.

I've read some things very quickly that this could be due to his gut working overtime at the moment fighting the infection and the effect of the antibiotics. I also read the thread of when it's an out-of-hours vet emergency, and it doesn't meet any of those criteria - the bleeding isn't uncontrolled, it was just one patch. However, I'm freaking out right now.

Please advise. Do I need to get an out of hours vet right now, or is this something where I just keep an eye on him and phone them in the morning?
 
Next morning update, so that last night's post doesn't alarm anyone: Cube has seen a vet today. While the vet is concerned that there's blood (he thinks it's more likely to be from his urine than poo/diarrhoea, judging by the sample I took in), he's more concerned that Cube isn't eating at the moment.

He's had two injections today - B12 to stimulate appetite, and a painkiller named vetergesic. These should kick in by lunchtime, and then I've got a new pack of critical care fine grind to start trying to feed him. I mentioned how aggressive/bitey Cube has become the last day or so, which the vet thought may be pain related, hence the painkiller injection. He's also suggested to me giving Cube some fresh orange or pineapple juice - he says it's an old wives tale but has some scientific backing to it, in that it can also help stimulate appetite in pigs due to vitamin c and sugar.

Fingers crossed...
 
Froggerella said:
Next morning update, so that last night's post doesn't alarm anyone: Cube has seen a vet today. While the vet is concerned that there's blood (he thinks it's more likely to be from his urine than poo/diarrhoea, judging by the sample I took in), he's more concerned that Cube isn't eating at the moment.

He's had two injections today - B12 to stimulate appetite, and a painkiller named vetergesic. These should kick in by lunchtime, and then I've got a new pack of critical care fine grind to start trying to feed him. I mentioned how aggressive/bitey Cube has become the last day or so, which the vet thought may be pain related, hence the painkiller injection. He's also suggested to me giving Cube some fresh orange or pineapple juice - he says it's an old wives tale but has some scientific backing to it, in that it can also help stimulate appetite in pigs due to vitamin c and sugar.

Fingers crossed...
Click to expand...
Sending healing vibes for cube xx
 
Thanks. He's still pretty much just sat in his little house, not doing a great deal. Although he's had diarrhoea, the vet told me that if giving him some veg means he's eating something, to do that - his diarrhoea has stopped, but the main aim right now is to get some food in him. I've given him a couple of small bits of lettuce which he was quite enthusiastic for, so fingers crossed - I just need him to be that enthusiastic for his kibble and hay again now!

Any tips on syringe feeding a pig who REALLY doesn't want to be fed are appreciated, I've looked at the guide, and done it with other pigs - but Cube seems to take particular offence to it.
 
Froggerella said:
Thanks. He's still pretty much just sat in his little house, not doing a great deal. Although he's had diarrhoea, the vet told me that if giving him some veg means he's eating something, to do that - his diarrhoea has stopped, but the main aim right now is to get some food in him. I've given him a couple of small bits of lettuce which he was quite enthusiastic for, so fingers crossed - I just need him to be that enthusiastic for his kibble and hay again now!

Any tips on syringe feeding a pig who REALLY doesn't want to be fed are appreciated, I've looked at the guide, and done it with other pigs - but Cube seems to take particular offence to it.
Click to expand...
I’ll tag @Wiebke who has more experience than me.It can be very difficult, I sometimes get someone to hold my pigs when I’ve had to do it x
 
Froggerella said:
Thanks. He's still pretty much just sat in his little house, not doing a great deal. Although he's had diarrhoea, the vet told me that if giving him some veg means he's eating something, to do that - his diarrhoea has stopped, but the main aim right now is to get some food in him. I've given him a couple of small bits of lettuce which he was quite enthusiastic for, so fingers crossed - I just need him to be that enthusiastic for his kibble and hay again now!

Any tips on syringe feeding a pig who REALLY doesn't want to be fed are appreciated, I've looked at the guide, and done it with other pigs - but Cube seems to take particular offence to it.
Click to expand...

Just persist with the feeding, little but often. If a guinea pig is REALLY unwell, they will fight it. Have you tried a mix of mushed up pellets and critical care? The familiar taste can mean that it is a little more easily accepted. You need to cut off the syringe tip as shown in our guide. In your situation, there is just one rule - anything goes that you can get into him.

The less you can get in, the more often you need to feed round the clock. It is a very dispiriting job, especially when you are getting very exhausted, too, and can't get more than a snatch of sleep before you need to be up to feed again.
If it is any consolation - it can make all the difference in some cases. If it doesn't work out, then at least you know that you have tried your very best. Would your vet be prepared to give him a gut stimulant?

Please beware if Cube gets apathetic and no longer fights the feed - it can be a sign that the body is closing down. :(

Here are our medicating tips including uncooperative piggies. Personally, I have found wrapping useless. How to hold an uncooperative piggy is a picture of my Pili Pala. I've been there with her last October when she had a massive gut stasis and getting food into her was a week long challenge. :(
Administering Medications
 
Thank you! He's been eating the little fluffy bits in his hay today, although I've not caught him eating the rest of it.

It's just such a difference from when I was feeding Bix - he was quite willing for it, whereas Cube really fights it. I'll definitely try the mushed up pellets this evening.

What kind of gut stimulants are there? I know he gave him two injections today, one of which was B12 which he explained would help bring back his appetite. I'm also giving him probiotics in water to try and help his system.

I'm wary of giving him more veg at the moment because of his recent diarrhoea, but that seems to be the thing he's most likely to eat - in the situation of
anything goes, is there anything I should bear in mind re: giving veg so soon after diarrhoea?
 
Metacam won't have caused diarrhoea and lack of appetite but baytril is very likely to cause this. Baytril is also pretty much useless for dealing with abscesses. How is the abscess looking now? Was it definitely an abscess or a sebaceous cyst? Does it smell horrible? You can't miss the smell of an abscess. Vetergesic, although a very good pain killer, does make the guinea pigs very flat and uninterested in wanting to move around or eat. How does he seem now?
 
The abscess is ok - it was inspected again today, seems to be healing, just thick skin around there now.

I've had him out this evening - he's had a little bit of critical care mixed with mushed up kibble, a couple of small lettuce leaves, and some orange juice as per the vet's advice (which I thought odd, but I'll try it!) He wasn't fighting me as much with the syringe feeding, although he was still resistent - just calmer, less bitey. I hope that's a result of the vetergesic reducing any pain he's in, rather than a sign of something bad. He's been quite cuddly this evening - I had him on a pet bed on my lap while feeding him, but a couple of times he jumped up me to cuddle into my neck. He's moving around his cage a bit.

I'm going to continue with feeding him little bits every few hours. I'm due to call the vet tomorrow morning with an update.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Some fibreplex could be a good idea. Gut stimulants such as Zantac and Emeprid are the recommended ones for guinea pigs.
Click to expand...

One of the vets mentioned fibreplex on the phone to me the other day, but then said that the probiotic I've got should help in the same way - is that right?
 
Froggerella said:
One of the vets mentioned fibreplex on the phone to me the other day, but then said that the probiotic I've got should help in the same way - is that right?
Click to expand...

Fibreplex does contain probiotics but also other stuff. It is much more effective than plain probiotics. I prefer to use it when a piggy is really off their food. It can do the trick where normal antibiotics can't. It has helped me when my Hafren recently lost her appetite completely while on strong antibiotics - she started eating again even though required top up feeding support during the whole period.
 
I'll look into getting my hands on some fibreplex as well, then - can see it's on Amazon, and I've got Prime delivery, so that's an option.

Cube is eating a bit today - mainly veg, rather than hay/kibble, but at least it's something! Lettuce leaves and pepper seem to be his go-to foods at the moment, so I'm giving him little bits every few hours. He's still quite quiet, although he is moving around his cage a bit more - even if it's just to go from sitting in his bedroom to sitting by his food bowl. He also rumbled at me both last night and this morning for daring to touch his bum, which is much more like himself - I'm hoping these are all good signs. And he emptied his water bottle, so I know he's getting fluids by himself in addition to me giving him some fluids along with his cc syringes.

I'll post here if there's any other updates, and will keep on with the crit care, etc, for the time being. Thank you so much for all the advice, everyone - it's been so helpful, and really reassuring that I can come here for advice as well.
 
He's eating a little tonight, but not much... he mainly seems quite low in mood, and doesn't want to do a lot. This might seem like a silly question but it's one that's crossed my mind - with Cube's cagemate, Bix, having passed away recently, is there any chance any of this is depression/bereavement related? I did have plans to move Cube in with my other single boar, Etch, although I put them on hold when Cube got meds. I thought moving the two of them in together while Cube is ill would stress him out or make things worse. However, I thought the question was worth asking - am I doing the right thing in delaying them living together right now?
 
Hi I’ve just caught up with this thread. I’m so sorry but I’m not experienced enough to advise you properly. I’m thinking that it’s cos he’s poorly, getting over his abscess & coping with feeding support that’s the main reason why he doesn’t want to move or do a lot. But I don’t know really.... sorry. But I do want to wish dear little Cube a speedy recovery. :wub: x
 
How's he doing this morning? I am really concerned about this. I deal with a lot of abscesses and this isn't a typical recovery response. Would you mind reiterating which medications he is currently taking and doses? Also is the abscess doing well? Is it still discharging any pus?
 
He's still quite quiet this morning - I've given him a bit of critical care, and the fibreplex I ordered yesterday has arrived so he's had one dose of that already.

The abscess is fine, it seems to be healed over, and the vet checked it over the other day and wasn't concerned. I think that although this started with an abscess, it's no longer about that - I believe the meds he was on affected his appetite and digestive system, which has led to this.

Medications - I'm no longer administering any meds. He finished his 7 day course of baytril (0.5ml twice a day) on Monday, and I took him off the metacam (0.4ml per day) prior to that on the advice of the vet, due to his diarrhoea. At the vets on Tuesday, he received an injection of vetergesic for pain, and one of B12 to stimulate his appetite. Following this, I'm on instructions from the vet to try and get any food I can into him - I'm feeding critical care fine grind (mixed with crushed up pellets of his normal food), and he's accepting veg a few times a day (although not this morning). I've also got him on a probiotic, which is in his drinking water and which I was syringing into him when he had diarrhoea. Finally, I'm now also giving him fibreplex.

Right now, the vet wanted me to focus on just getting some food into him and trying to get his weight up a bit first, to see how he goes with that. If it doesn't work, the vet said he can do x rays, etc, to see what else is wrong, although nothing obvious was leaping out at him on examination... I'm struggling financially at the moment and I'm just wondering how far to take this, how many tests to run, and how successful it might be in the end. I guess I'm feeling quite pessimistic about the whole thing at the moment. This isn't Cube as I know him, and I feel like anything I do isn't helping in the long run.
 
I am surprised that the vet has told you to stop the metacam. Baytril would've been what was causing the diarrhoea and not the metacam. Also I am surprised that the vet hasn't prescribed some gut motility drugs (Zantac, Emeprid and maybe Cisapride as well). I think his gut has been badly affected by the Baytril and it is going to take a while before getting back to normal.

It may well be that he doesn't like Critical Care. I see this very often and I tend not to use it, but just mush up their normal guinea pig nuggets instead. Put some in a cup and pour boiling water over them and mix them up with a fork. Allow to cool and then feed. Often the piggies like them still warm
 
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