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Male contraceptive implant

Jennie_

Jennie_

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Hi I had one of my males "castrated" with an implant on the 11th April I was told he'd get a rush of hormones which he did and still has. Does anyone know how long this aggression lasts? He's constantly annoyed since he had the implant and it's like living with the hannibal lecter and today was the first time I got bit :(
 
I’m afraid I’ve absolutely no experience of implants. How long did the vet say this episode may last? And when you say annoyed, how is he showing his annoyance? What were you doing when he bit you? It sounds like it was nothing out of the ordinary on your part but you don’t know sometimes. And has he been living with another piggy, next door to one or alone?

I’ll also tag @Wiebke @VickiA @PigglePuggle maybe they may have some knowledge of it.
 
Siikibam said:
I’m afraid I’ve absolutely no experience of implants. How long did the vet say this episode may last? And when you say annoyed, how is he showing his annoyance? What were you doing when he bit you? It sounds like it was nothing out of the ordinary on your part but you don’t know sometimes. And has he been living with another piggy, next door to one or alone?

I’ll also tag @Wiebke @VickiA @PigglePuggle maybe they may have some knowledge of it.
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I think she said few weeks but I honestly can't recall, I see her Monday for Morts laser therapy so I'll ask.
He shows his annoyance by tooth clicking which is mostly shown at Morty, when he bit me he was in the mids of going for Mortys behind and I put my hand in to stroke him on the head so he'd leave Morty alone and that's when he bit me, he also went for my partner when he went to stroke him. He's currently living with is step-brother but we are debating on seperating due to the occasional proper fights Spoopy is instagating.
 
Ah, makes sense. You have to be careful. If a piggy is on a ‘warpath’, it’s best not to put your hand in. Has this behaviour only been since having the implant? May I ask why you had it done - were you planning to separate them and put him with a sow?

You say they have had proper fights before. What happened? Were there easy bites or blood drawn? Was Mitty submitting or being defensive?
 
:agr:
If there are proper fights occurring, then they likely need to be separated.

Id also ask if you were planning on putting him with a sow?
Ive never heard of implants being used. Neutering doesn’t change behaviour in that if two boars were not getting on, they won’t get on just because one of them is neutered
 
Siikibam said:
Ah, makes sense. You have to be careful. If a piggy is on a ‘warpath’, it’s best not to put your hand in. Has this behaviour only been since having the implant? May I ask why you had it done - were you planning to separate them and put him with a sow?

You say they have had proper fights before. What happened? Were there easy bites or blood drawn? Was Mitty submitting or being defensive?
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He's only been fighting since the implant, we had the implant done because he was starting to get hormanlly aggressive with Morty so my vet who is a exotic vet suggested getting him done. Morty is the dominant piggy but Spoopy wants that roll. They were and can be best of friends before the implant.
 
Can I ask, genuine curiosity as it’s certainly not something I’ve come across on here
what made you get the implant for him? Is he going to go and live with a sow?
I assume the implant needs to be replaced at certain intervals?
 
Hi

Unfortunately for, this is the first case of a contraceptive implant for boars being used on here, so none of us has any practical experience in this respect.

Personally, I would be rather sceptic since guinea pig boar neutering doesn't work for many of the issues males from other species are being castrated for, so implants are more likely as infective for those purposes as well.

Here is what neutering does and - more crucially - does NOT do for guinea pig boars: Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care

How old are your boys? If they are teenagers experiencing scuffles already, then an extra hormone boost will unfortunately really contribute to upsetting the apple cart. :(
Teenage problems: Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
 
This sounds very experimental, I have never heard of hormone implants for males of any species except male to female transgender humans.
Attempts at male hormonal contraceptives as far as I know are still experimental in all species, and human males who have tested them in clinical trials often report awful mood swings, feeling anxious and depressed and irritable...
We'd be interested to hear of any new research in this area that has led your vet to suggest this option, but it sounds like it isnt working for your boy, and if he and his friend can't settle their differences and agree a friendly hierarchy I'm afraid it isnt really down to hormones, just character compatability- some pigs just dont get along, especially if both want to be the boss- this applies to all ages and genders!
 
Good question about their age. The thing with castrating is it won’t change their behaviour like with other animals. It just removes the risk of pregnancy.

How much space do they have and do they have two of everything in their cage?

I would speak to the vet on Monday to see how long this behaviour may go on. But also be aware that his behaviour could possibly be the norm and not because of the implant. I think this because you say he was becoming aggressive with Morty. Age may also be a factor.

I think if you are planning to put him with a sow then I would consider full neutering. Is there any reason the vet suggested an implant rather than full neuter? If he’s to live with Morty (if their bond isn’t in trouble) then I would consider whether the implant is necessary.

Out of curiosity, where is the implant inserted? And how many times have they used this procedure with other piggies?
 
I've come across this a lot in pet dogs, I think either injection like Tardak, or implant such as suprelorin, but never heard of it in guinea pigs! Though I think it's used in ferrets and also for treating some tumours. It does quite commonly have side effects of aggression in dogs.
 
Spoopy is 7months old now and Morty is 2 years implant was inserted between the shoulder blades. She gave us the option of surgery or implant an we choice implant as we thought it would be easier for him as its done with no GA. She said this is what they do with on zoo animals and has a high success rate, again him n Morty were best buddies then he started getting hormonally aggressive that's when she suggested this or surgery. I've no idea what the implant is, she may if mentioned the name but I don't remember.
 
Snoopy is right at the highest hormone output in his teens and this may well be the cause of Morty becoming aggressive. Youve said that Snoopy wants the dominant role, so he will be trying to take over and Morty is now defending his position as dominant piggy hence you seeing an increase in dominance and aggression.
This sounds like a potential character mis-match between them to me.
Neutering (even the surgical route) will not make them character compatible. All neutering does is prevent pregnancy

How long have they been together?
 
Do we know what the hormones in the implant actually are? Are they 'female' hormones? Has he got permanent PMT!?!

I'd be interested to know how long these have been used for piggies by the specialist and whether they have been successful in other pigs. If it's something used in other species that is just starting to be tried in piggies the initial surge and final effects might not be as in other species. I'm just thinking about the use of dog metacam which is given in higher doses to pigs and also more frequently per 24 hours as they burn through it with their fast metabolism. I can understand you wanting to give it a try - it just doesn't sound like anyone is particularly happy about the situation.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Snoopy is right at the highest hormone output in his teens and this may well be the cause of Morty becoming aggressive. Youve said that Snoopy wants the dominant role, so he will be trying to take over and Morty is now defending his position as dominant piggy hence you seeing an increase in dominance and aggression.
This sounds like a potential character mis-match between them to me.
Neutering (even the surgical route) will not make them character compatible. All neutering does is prevent pregnancy

How long have they been together?
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Morts not becoming aggressive only spoops, morts only snapping back when he's getting fed up.
 
Spoopy is just experiencing his teens, as mentioned above. What he was doing is hormonal but not aggressive. Rather he was behaving as teenage boars sometimes do. It’s natural to them and not something I would call aggression.

As mentioned above, I would consider whether their bond will make it through his teens or they need to live as neighbours.

If the implant has not been trialed on other guinea pigs I would question it’s effectiveness. Zoo animals and guinea pigs are entirely different. Both their physiological and behavioural nature.

I’m sorry if we’ve been overwhelming. We’ve just not come across this option for (temporarily) neutering piggies. Have a read of guides below to see where they both were before Spoopy had the implant.

Can you also give some more info on them - how long have they been together (as mentioned above) and how big is their cage?

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
 
PS is your vet experienced in treating guinea pigs?
 
Siikibam said:
Spoopy is just experiencing his teens, as mentioned above. What he was doing is hormonal but not aggressive. Rather he was behaving as teenage boars sometimes do. It’s natural to them and not something I would call aggression.

As mentioned above, I would consider whether their bond will make it through his teens or they need to live as neighbours.

If the implant has not been trialed on other guinea pigs I would question it’s effectiveness. Zoo animals and guinea pigs are entirely different. Both their physiological and behavioural nature.

I’m sorry if we’ve been overwhelming. We’ve just not come across this option for (temporarily) neutering piggies. Have a read of guides below to see where they both were before Spoopy had the implant.

Can you also give some more info on them - how long have they been together (as mentioned above) and how big is their cage?

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Click to expand...
They've been together since 10th Novemeber 2021 there cage is Ferplast Plaza 140 but with floor time (upgrading to a CC cage)

she is an exotic vet
[HEADING=2][/HEADING]
 
So you got snoopy as a baby. At that point he couldn’t challenge for dominance, he would have been desperate for company and morty willingly accepted him.
Now things have changed, snoopy is a teenager and he is challenging for dominance and morty is snapping at him. This is crunch time as to whether their bond can make it through.

Their cage is a little too small for a boar pair. Floor time doesn’t count I’m afraid. However, upgrading cage size if there is a problem with their bond will not help.

Have actual fights and injuries occurred? If so, then that is immediate game over for their relationship.

If it is dominance, then you need to gauge the scale at which it is occurring, whether their bond is going to survive snoopy’s teens.

The two guides @Siikibam linked in will help, along with this one below. However, as we have said, neutering will not change guinea pig behaviour like it does for other animals. It doesn’t calm them down and it doesn’t make them get on.

Bonds In Trouble
 
Jennie_ said:
They've been together since 10th Novemeber 2021 there cage is Ferplast Plaza 140 but with floor time (upgrading to a CC cage)

she is an exotic vet
[HEADING=2][/HEADING]
Click to expand...
So since Spoopy was younger. It does sound like incompatibility and not anything else I’m afraid. Morty was top pig with Spoop accepting it. But now Spoopy wants to try his luck and Morty isn’t having it. Unfortunately you can only have one dominant piggy in a pair.

Just for information, a 140cm cage is unfortunately too small for boars. It’s recommended they have a 150 minimum, preferably 180cm.

Have you ever done a trial separation to see? I would perhaps consider that. Cages side by side. The problem is that their bond sounds tenuous but that trial separation can sometimes give a piggy time to calm down from the ‘hormonal high’. But if Spoopy is pushing boundaries then it may not be enough. @Piggies&buns what do you think?
 
Siikibam said:
PS is your vet experienced in treating guinea pigs?
Click to expand...

Piggies&buns said:
So you got snoopy as a baby. At that point he couldn’t challenge for dominance, he would have been desperate for company and morty willingly accepted him.
Now things have changed, snoopy is a teenager and he is challenging for dominance and morty is snapping at him. This is crunch time as to whether their bond can make it through.

Their cage is a little too small for a boar pair. Floor time doesn’t count I’m afraid. However, upgrading cage size if there is a problem with their bond will not help.

Have actual fights and injuries occurred? If so, then that is immediate game over for their relationship.

If it is dominance, then you need to gauge the scale at which it is occurring, whether their bond is going to survive snoopy’s teens.

The two guides @Siikibam linked in will help, along with this one below. However, as we have said, neutering will not change guinea pig behaviour like it does for other animals. It doesn’t calm them down and it doesn’t make them get on.

Bonds In Trouble
Click to expand...
Yeah we agree the cage is too small and are looking into CC cage for them. No injuries to them so far, well part from fur pulling last week but that's stopped and that only happened two times.. Ushally happened around the time I cleaned the cage out when spoopy gets overally excited and tries to mount to morty so mort would snip him on the butt, but no blood injury (only to me)
 
Siikibam said:
So since Spoopy was younger. It does sound like incompatibility and not anything else I’m afraid. Morty was top pig with Spoop accepting it. But now Spoopy wants to try his luck and Morty isn’t having it. Unfortunately you can only have one dominant piggy in a pair.

Just for information, a 140cm cage is unfortunately too small for boars. It’s recommended they have a 150 minimum, preferably 180cm.

Have you ever done a trial separation to see? I would perhaps consider that. Cages side by side. The problem is that their bond sounds tenuous but that trial separation can sometimes give a piggy time to calm down from the ‘hormonal high’. But if Spoopy is pushing boundaries then it may not be enough. @Piggies&buns what do you think?
Click to expand...
Even if you take Morty out for lap time to give him is medication Spoopy will call him constantly, he hates seperated from Mort it's such a confusing relationship with him
 
When cleaning the cage you are removing territorial markers. It’s normal that yo will see an increase in dominance at cage cleaning with a teenage boar. Therefore It is recommended to only clean half the cage each time so some of it still smells of them and they recognise it as their territory. This can help reduce dominance at cage clean time.

Changing the cage to a c&c will only help if they are character compatible and want to be together. A 5x2 is needed for a boar pair, but should the bond fail, then they will each need their own minimum of 2x3.

When changing cage size, you are changing territory. You will need to do so carefully and ensuring you use soiled bedding in the new cage. (The comprehensive guide to boars explains further)
Also bear in mind that changing cage for an unstable pairing can be the final straw and be the thing which breaks the bond.

Calling for the other does not necessarily mean a compatible bond - they can be can’t live together, can’t live apart.

If you read the guides linked in and see if they provide any further insight into what you are seeing - whether its normal teen dominance or whether there are deeper issues. A temporary separation can help but it’s not something you can do repeatedly - a separation for a few days, neutral territory reintroduction and then let them make their mind up about whether they want to be together.
 
Piggies&buns said:
When cleaning the cage you are removing territorial markers. It’s normal that yo will see an increase in dominance at cage cleaning with a teenage boar. Therefore It is recommended to only clean half the cage each time so some of it still smells of them and they recognise it as their territory. This can help reduce dominance at cage clean time.

Changing the cage to a c&c will only help if they are character compatible and want to be together. A 5x2 is needed for a boar pair, but should the bond fail, then they will each need their own minimum of 2x3.

When changing cage size, you are changing territory. You will need to do so carefully and ensuring you use soiled bedding in the new cage. (The comprehensive guide to boars explains further)
Also bear in mind that changing cage for an unstable pairing can be the final straw and be the thing which breaks the bond.

Calling for the other does not necessarily mean a compatible bond - they can be can’t live together, can’t live apart.

If you read the guides linked in and see if they provide any further insight into what you are seeing - whether its normal teen dominance or whether there are deeper issues. A temporary separation can help but it’s not something you can do repeatedly - a separation for a few days, neutral territory reintroduction and then let them make their mind up about whether they want to be together.
Click to expand...
We were going for 5x2 cc.
When cleaning I clean one side first then the other, Spoops just popcorns then get mounty then popcorns. 70% of the time they are grooming each other, sharing the same greens, popcorning together then the rest is just a noisey nightmare.
 
Jennie_ said:
We were going for 5x2 cc.
When cleaning I clean one side first then the other, Spoops just popcorns then get mounty then popcorns. 70% of the time they are grooming each other, sharing the same greens, popcorning together then the rest is just a noisey nightmare.
Click to expand...

How long of a gap do you leave between cleaning each side?
the alternative if you don’t want to leave a few days between cleaning each half is to wipe soiled bedding on the new bedding so to transfer scent

Aggression and dominance are not the same thing. Do read the guides to work out what you are seeing.
As we said though, if Snoopy does not back down and accept his position as submissive and allow Morty to remain dominant, then this is when things can escalate and break a bond
 
Piggies&buns said:
How long of a gap do you leave between cleaning each side?
the alternative if you don’t want to leave a few days between cleaning each half is to wipe soiled bedding on the new bedding so to transfer scent

Aggression and dominance are not the same thing. Do read the guides to work out what you are seeing.
As we said though, if Snoopy does not back down and accept his position as submissive and allow Morty to remain dominant, then this is when things can escalate and break a bond
Click to expand...
We have mainly a stroppy teenage/dominance going on and last week we had aggression with side walking and kicking to the face (as my partner just reminded me) they havnt done that for 6 days though so I'm hoping that's settled. All we get now is teeth chattering and bickering.
With the cleaning I tend to wait 10mins between cleaning side as I have health issues so I need to pace, but cleaning the cage I clean every few days an deep clean every saturday.
 
Jennie_ said:
We have mainly a stroppy teenage/dominance going on and last week we had aggression with side walking and kicking to the face (as my partner just reminded me) they havnt done that for 6 days though so I'm hoping that's settled. All we get now is teeth chattering and bickering.
With the cleaning I tend to wait 10mins between cleaning side as I have health issues so I need to pace, but cleaning the cage I clean every few days an deep clean every saturday.
Click to expand...

It’s something you will need to keep an eye on. As mentioned, if they cannot work things out between them, if things escalate etc then you need to be prepared to separate.
Do all your hides have two exits?

What you do about the implant is another issue. Its not going to make any difference to their relationship though.

The more you clean, the more you remove scent.
It may be best to fully clean one half of the cage on one day. Then fully clean the other half a few days later (Poop picking/removing wet areas/wet hay on both sides daily)
 
All hideys have two exits.
I got into a routing of keeping the cage fully clean due to Morty having bumble then having half his foot removed, but I'll tone it down a bit. I'll see what the vet says Monday regarding the implant and find out what the implant is.
 
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