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Mike's baytril - advice please

tabelmabel

tabelmabel

Adult Guinea Pig
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Why do these things always happen at weekends?!

Mike is 3.5 yrs old and normally in excellent health. He is an indoor pig, living in our kitchen not drafty at all.

Just today he seems to have developed very rapid breathing and my daughter said he did a funny cough noise this morning.

So i am thinking chest infection BUT he is eating really well and moving around the cage fast. He was sitting looking ill but i dropped some red pepper in on the lower storey and he practically flew down the ramp to get it and ate it really fast. Now he is at his kibble.

Is he likely to be ok til monday? Are there any other possibilities other than chest?

I gave him 0.2 calpol just in case he has a temperature. I havent any anti biotics in stock. Is there anything else i can be doing?


He has 2 cagemates, both fine.

Thanks
 
Ps there are no other visible signs. Eyes, nose all normal. No discharge, no sneezing.

Rapid breathing is all i can see just now
 
Any breathing issues need to be checked out by a vet straight away.

Please don’t treat on spec, you don’t know illness you are treating and could inadvertently make things harder to diagnose And treat correctly
 
Our biscuit had the same as what you described, a couple weeks ago, and we were told that she had a respiratory infection and had to take antibiotics for a week.

Just keep an eye on his eating as we found that biscuit lost her appetite and we’re still currently syringe feeding her recovery food and probiotic food.

Hope he gets well soon.
 
Please see a vet as soon as possible.

Emergencies mostly happen at the worst time possible in my own experience, not that there is every any good time...
 
Just back from vet. Didnt go to the usual exotics vet as it's an hour away and the weather here in scotland is shocking with flooded roads, torrential rain and high winds.

Took mike to the nearest vet. He has had a baytril injection but they didnt have any liquid baytril in stock.

They gave me tablets and said he can have half a tablet 2x day start tom eve. They said just pop it in his mouth. I cant see that going too well. What does anyone think is the best way to give a tablet?

Also they said seperate from cage mates. Is that necessary? We never did that previously for a pig that had uri and the cagemate never got ill.

Any advice welcome as this emergency vet is not specialised in exotics. Mike was a good weight, not dehydrated and no temperature. So hopefully the prognosis is good
 
What tablet is it? Marbocyl? You can hide it in the tip of a syringe feed of mushed up nuggets and he won't know he's eating it

No don't seperate, cause more stress, stressed pigs take longer to recover. Chances are if it was goinf to spread to the other it will have already
 
The label says baytril flavour tablets. Ah yes that's a good idea re hide in food.
 
tabelmabel said:
Just back from vet. Didnt go to the usual exotics vet as it's an hour away and the weather here in scotland is shocking with flooded roads, torrential rain and high winds.

Took mike to the nearest vet. He has had a baytril injection but they didnt have any liquid baytril in stock.

They gave me tablets and said he can have half a tablet 2x day start tom eve. They said just pop it in his mouth. I cant see that going too well. What does anyone think is the best way to give a tablet?

Also they said seperate from cage mates. Is that necessary? We never did that previously for a pig that had uri and the cagemate never got ill.

Any advice welcome as this emergency vet is not specialised in exotics. Mike was a good weight, not dehydrated and no temperature. So hopefully the prognosis is good
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Hi

Just grind down the tablet and mix/shake it with 1-2 ml of water in a little medicine bottle. Syringe.
Because of the fast metabolism that guinea pigs have, I would give half the prescribed dose every 12 hours. Check with your usual vets on Monday.

Please don't separate. If it is highly infectious, then transmission has likely already happened. Separation is just another added stress factor that can impact on recovery. There has been a change in attitude in recent years that acknowledges the importance of companionship in piggy savvy vets - but you are not necessarily seeing them in an out-of-hours clinic.

Healthy piggies with a fully operational immune system can usually fend off UTI without coming down with it.
It is the young, the old, frail, pregnant or not well protected outdoors piggies that are the ones at risk.
 
Thanks re advice not to seperate - i didnt think it could be right. I cant understand how mike has got ill. He is only 3.5 and an indoor pig. He is eating, really active. I wonder how he got ill and the others havent. (Yet!) Very odd.
 
tabelmabel said:
Thanks re advice not to seperate - i didnt think it could be right. I cant understand how mike has got ill. He is only 3.5 and an indoor pig. He is eating, really active. I wonder how he got ill and the others havent. (Yet!) Very odd.
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All the best!

It is always difficult when you haven't yet got all pieces of a medical jigsaw...
 
I dont like those little dots trailing off after your final words @Wiebke !

I'm keeping everything crossed that this isnt symptomatic of a bigger issue. It doesnt seem that long since i nursed benson through his final weeks . . .:hmm:
 
tabelmabel said:
I dont like those little dots trailing off after your final words @Wiebke !

I'm keeping everything crossed that this isnt symptomatic of a bigger issue. It doesnt seem that long since i nursed benson through his final weeks . . .:hmm:
Click to expand...

These things always seem to come in a multipack, unfortunately! :(
 
Wiebke said:
These things always seem to come in a multipack, unfortunately! :(
Click to expand...


Oh @Wiebke ! I cant even like your post though i have little doubt you're right :(

Mike is still breathing a bit faster today i think. It is quite hard to tell as I'm comparing him to his cage mates but they arent the same kind of pig. Mike is a Dutch and he does have a much faster metabolism, speed around the cage, eating rate. He is mr super speedy, quite mouse like. Anyway he is eating well, running around and washing his face so, apart from the breathing, he looks well.

Time will tell
 
tabelmabel said:
Oh @Wiebke ! I cant even like your post though i have little doubt you're right :(

Mike is still breathing a bit faster today i think. It is quite hard to tell as I'm comparing him to his cage mates but they arent the same kind of pig. Mike is a Dutch and he does have a much faster metabolism, speed around the cage, eating rate. He is mr super speedy, quite mouse like. Anyway he is eating well, running around and washing his face so, apart from the breathing, he looks well.

Time will tell
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Please keep in mind that it takes at least a day or several for the antibiotic to kick in. In the first two days you want to see a stabilisation of the symtoms before you are looking for a noticeable improvement, which can sometimes take a week with URI in my experience. Antibiotic effectiveness is not instant as they build up over several days to reach a lasting maximum efficiency.
That is also the reason why you always need to finish a course even if you or your piggy are looking and feeling healthy again. And why we have such a problem with resistency from overuse and not properly finished courses that have not cleared out a reservoir of bacteria.

I feel for you! I already had Begw with an ulcerated hay poke that penetrated into the out chamber (of course it had to happen on a weekend!) when Briallen suddenly died totally out of the blue and without having had any noticeable health issues around 2 weeks ago. Which of course has not helped with her widower's IBS symptoms he is on long term treatment for... :(

All the best! It is GOOD that symptoms have not got worse overnight!
 
Yes will definitely finish the course. At this time of year the pigs wouldnt be going outside anyway but i know from past experience that it takes a long long time til they are fully over these things. When our old boy stan came down with a chest infection back in 2016, it was high summer. We kept him in whilst he was on anti biotics and he responded really well - eating and looking really great.

Put him out on grass far too soon and his symptoms were back within days. He never made it through that 2nd time.

Do you know how many weeks it takes until they get back to full fitness @Wiebke - or will mike always have a weak chest now?

Sorry to hear about Briallen - i dont know how you manage with so many pigs; at least i have only 3 to look out for! It is all easy when they are well but expensive and time consuming, as well as stressful and worrying when they are ill.
 
tabelmabel said:
Yes will definitely finish the course. At this time of year the pigs wouldnt be going outside anyway but i know from past experience that it takes a long long time til they are fully over these things. When our old boy stan came down with a chest infection back in 2016, it was high summer. We kept him in whilst he was on anti biotics and he responded really well - eating and looking really great.

Put him out on grass far too soon and his symptoms were back within days. He never made it through that 2nd time.

Do you know how many weeks it takes until they get back to full fitness @Wiebke - or will mike always have a weak chest now?

Sorry to hear about Briallen - i dont know how you manage with so many pigs; at least i have only 3 to look out for! It is all easy when they are well but expensive and time consuming, as well as stressful and worrying when they are ill.
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Hi!

Recovery from illness or an operation is very individual. Some sail through it, others take a long time.
Soft poos are often a side effect of antibiotics, especially if it combines with dental issues. You can counter that with poo soup, fibreplex or probiotics. That usually should correct within a matter of days or weeks, depending on the severity.

Dylan stopped eating totally towards the end of his second course of zithromax but was eating fully under his own steam within 2-3 days of the end and a corrective dental. I had to chop up his veg at first just to encourage him that he could actually chew without pain again but once he got the message, it was all plain sailing. But I have had other piggies where it took longer to rebuild a wiped out gut microbiome.

Permanent recovery from URI also relies on the strength of the immune system and whether there are other factors in play which we are not necessarily aware of. This is something that you can ask a treating vet who knows your piggy, but even they may need to hedge their bet.
 
Omg those baytril tablets are tiny! just about got one cut in half, honestly they are no bigger than a saccharin.

The first little bit i put in water but so minute,just a few little crumbs really. I was worried that it might not all have got into mike. So that was last night.

This morning, i mushed pellets, got 0.2 of pellet mush in a syringe with tip cut off and just popped the half tablet into the end of the syringe. I am a bit more confident it hit its intended destination!

Mike is looking pretty good!
 
Hi.

Not long back from the vet with mike. Last night we noticed he had watering eyes and not as lively as usual but he was eating and moving about so we didnt go out of hours to the vet last night.

Took him along today and he has had a baytril injection. As soon as we got back from the vet, he was already looking a whole lot better and at his pellets. Fingers crossed he will pull through.



Anyway, the vet has prescribed baytril for 4 further days 0.4ml once per day.


Is that ok or would it be best to split the dose and give 2 lots of 0.2?


Also, do you think 4 further doses are sufficient or (assuming he pulls through) should i try to get him in with the pig savvy vet at the end of the week?


It is a bit tricky as we are tier 3 (scotland) and the pig vet is in a tier 4 area. So I'm not too sure if it is ok to enter tier 4 or whether i need to remain local at the nearest vet (not cavy savvy)
 
tabelmabel said:
Hi.

Not long back from the vet with mike. Last night we noticed he had watering eyes and not as lively as usual but he was eating and moving about so we didnt go out of hours to the vet last night.

Took him along today and he has had a baytril injection. As soon as we got back from the vet, he was already looking a whole lot better and at his pellets. Fingers crossed he will pull through.



Anyway, the vet has prescribed baytril for 4 further days 0.4ml once per day.


Is that ok or would it be best to split the dose and give 2 lots of 0.2?


Also, do you think 4 further doses are sufficient or (assuming he pulls through) should i try to get him in with the pig savvy vet at the end of the week?


It is a bit tricky as we are tier 3 (scotland) and the pig vet is in a tier 4 area. So I'm not too sure if it is ok to enter tier 4 or whether i need to remain local at the nearest vet (not cavy savvy)
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Hello I’m not able to offer the best best advice but I’m somewhat familiar with antibiotics now,how big is your guinea? Also did they give you probiotics?
 
No, they never give probiotics. I usually have some in stock but i have nothing in just now. My stocks of critical care are everything are totally out.

Mike is a small dutch. He is currently 825g.
 
tabelmabel said:
No, they never give probiotics. I usually have some in stock but i have nothing in just now. My stocks of critical care are everything are totally out.

Mike is a small dutch. He is currently 825g.
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Are they exotic vets? They really should have given you some probiotics. Do you have another buddy to make poop soup from? 0.4 also seems a BIT high,my boy Hazel even at 1,000 grams was only given about 0.2 every day but if this is an exotic vet they know better than I do obviously,4 days after an initial dose sounds pretty normal if they suspect but don’t super believe there’s an infection. It honestly sounds to me like they are tossing an antibiotic at it and hoping it does something which...isn’t bad if there’s an infection but we’re not sure there is unless they did a test to prove that. Was his eye just watery or was it crusted and yellow?
 
No - it is not an exotic vet. The exotic vet is in the tier 4 area.

It is definitely a respiratory infection and not just a watery eye. She said when she put the stethoscope on him he was really rattly. His breathing didnt appear laboured to me (he had a uri in february this year and that time he had very rapid breathing but this time it appears ok from the outside)
Yes, he does have a young and healthy cage mate so poo soup is a good idea.


He had 0.4 baytril prescribed last time but he was slightly heavier then (900g)

They arent the best with cavies, these vets. I will maybe split the dose into 2 to make sure he isnt overdosed.
 
As a probiotic is not a medication and does not need a prescription, therefore the vet does not need to give you one, and as probiotics are not yet proven to work, some won't even mention it. It is safe to give a probiotic though.

Only a vet can advise you regarding dosage and do check with them before changing anything.
 
Mike still looks very poorly today but i think there is a fair chance he will pull through. I have been handfeeding veg and given 2 feeds of mushed pellets by syringe. He was very, very energetic and lively on the syringe feed - really going for it so i am hoping he has enough strength to keep going til the anti biotics take hold.


I have made an appointment at the cavy savvy vet for friday. That is when the baytril runs out. I'm not convinced 4 days is enough and want a 2nd opinion before the weekend comes.

I am hopeful just now that he will pull through this time.
 
Ensure you weigh him daily while he is poorly - it’s the only way to gauge whether he is independently eating enough hay and/or you are syringe feeding enough. If he loses weight, then you need to increase the amount of syringe feeds you give as it means he isn’t eating enough hay for himself.
 
Oh yes thanks @Piggies&buns🙂 I'm not a new piggy owner and have nursed a few poorly piggies.

But it is always good to have this forum for support if things take a turn for the worst. Thanks x
 
Well mike still isn't out of the woods yet. Not really much change. He is still showing interest in eating veg and today, for the first time, he looked like he might have some hay. But then he didn't.

His eyes look loads better. But he is still spending most of his time in his hidey house and, when i need to lift him out for feeding, he is not trying to run away at all. Very unusual for him as he has always been skittish.

I'm optimistic he will hold out til friday as he doesnt seem any worse, and is a bit better. Just have to wait and see.
 
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