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Specialist Mimmi's Mysterious Weight Loss

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Leeni

Junior Guinea Pig
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Mimmi hasn't been doing too good lately. 28th of October I weighed her and was shocked that she had lost 150g in three weeks. I should have weighed the piggies more often but I was abroad a lot at the time :(. My husband took care of the piggies during that time and he is very good at it, so nothing to suspicious there.

So Mimmi was 680g and her normal weight had been 850g. She is quite a petite piggy so I think 850-900g is a ok weight for her. She is now a few months over 3 years old. She had seemed her usual happy and active self during this weight loss period, she was just wheeking for extra treats all the time. I thought it was because we had stopped gathering grass and other greens from outside and begun serving from the fridge which the piggies are not so exited about (I'm in Finland so we get frost in October), but maybe it was a symptom of her changed appetite. After looking at her behaviour carefully I thought it could be that she wasn't eating hay the usual way but was spending a lot of time choosing what she ate. She was eating veggies and pellets with good appetite but was sometimes twisting her face like there was a teeth problem or something wrong with her mouth. But the difference to normal was quite small. Still, her poop was small, so apparently she wasn't eating very much.

I immediately took her to vet's but since I wanted to have the appointment the same day I didn't get to bring her to my usual vet who is an expert. The vet inspected Mimmi's teeth (which were ok) but nothing much else. We got antibiotics for 10 days anyway.

After a few days I brought her to the vet I usually go to because I wasn't sure that this was all that could be done. We checked the teeth again, and they were perfect. The vet took an urine sample that showed +2 blood. Mimmi was diagnosed with possible urinal infection. She didn't show any pain while peeing but then again she drinks a lot (always has) so maybe that kept the pain away. There was no glucose or unusual amount of protein in the urine. X-rays were clean, no signs of bladder stones or tumors. We continued the antibiotics with a bigger dose for 3 weeks and now there is no blood in the urine. Her poop is ok. There was one day during antibiotics when she had diarrhea but that was fixed in less than a day.

At first I support fed Mimmi but found out that her weight was going up better when she was eating pellets (I feed her Oxbow young pellets). She eats hay seemingly ok and veggies too, but there must be something wrong still with how she eats hay. Now she weighs 762g but her weight seems to have got stuck there. And she will lose weight immediately if I take away the pellets. For a day she was over 780 but the next day only 750g and now 760-770 has been the highest point for many days.

I know there can be so many reasons why a piggy can lose weight but does anyone have any ideas what could cause this? I it just the urinal infection still causing her not to eat properly? Could there be parasites from the lawn in her guts?
 
I am ever so sorry; weight loss can be sometimes so difficult to diagnose.

Could you please tell us how old Mimmi is? Age may have an additional bearing on the lack of putting on weight despite seemingly eating normally.

Has your vet considered kidney issues/failure or diabetes yet? Both conditions are typically accompanied by much increased drinking and can cause considerable weight loss in a short amount of time.

@furryfriends (TEAS) @Abi_nurse
 
I am ever so sorry; weight loss can be sometimes so difficult to diagnose.

Could you please tell us how old Mimmi is? Age may have an additional bearing on the lack of putting on weight despite seemingly eating normally.

Has your vet considered kidney issues/failure or diabetes yet? Both conditions are typically accompanied by much increased drinking and can cause considerable weight loss in a short amount of time.

@furryfriends (TEAS) @Abi_nurse
Thank you for the reply @Wiebke!
Mimmi turned 3 in August so not an elderly piggy yet.
Vet said that considering the urine sample contains no glucose, it wouldn't be diabetes. She also said that protein level is at normal, low level. High level would indicate to kidney failure, though early stages of kidney issues don't show in the sample because piggies always have some protein in the urine.
 
I am tagging some more of our experienced members into the thread. Perhaps they have more ideas of possible avenues to pursue. It sounds like your vet has done a pretty thorough job, though.

@furryfriends (TEAS) @Abi_nurse
 
PS: has she experienced any hair loss?
 
Thank you again @Wiebke ! I really appreciate your help :)!
PS: has she experienced any hair loss?
She had some hair loss in August. I posted a thread in here too, there's a photo:
Mimmi Is Losing Hair On Her Front Paws
Reason to that was probably stress because her cage mate had ovarian cysts and she was constantly bullying Mimmi. When cysts were treated, her coat returned to normal. Right now I'd say it's even better than normal, really shiny.. But she has experienced hair loss a couple of times before, or more like thinning hair and dandruff. She is an aby, so mostly in the middle of her back rosettes. Last time the vet took a scratching sample and it came out of laboratory free of fungus. Vet also checked that there was no parasites.
 
Thank you again @Wiebke ! I really appreciate your help :)!

She had some hair loss in August. I posted a thread in here too, there's a photo:
Mimmi Is Losing Hair On Her Front Paws
Reason to that was probably stress because her cage mate had ovarian cysts and she was constantly bullying Mimmi. When cysts were treated, her coat returned to normal. Right now I'd say it's even better than normal, really shiny.. But she has experienced hair loss a couple of times before, or more like thinning hair and dandruff. She is an aby, so mostly in the middle of her back rosettes. Last time the vet took a scratching sample and it came out of laboratory free of fungus. Vet also checked that there was no parasites.

No, that hair loss has nothing to do with her current issue. I was thinking about Cushing's disease, which is VERY rare in guinea pigs, but can be connected with sudden heavy weight loss, heavy drinking and hair loss in certain areas (but not the legs). Thankfully, it doesn't seem likely.
 
I know you say the vet said the teeth were fine, but I suspect this is the issue from how you describe her eating. Maybe an oral thrush if not a dental problem as such. Unfortunately too many vets have no idea what guinea pig teeth are supposed to look like. How did your vet examine the teeth? If it was just from looking in the mouth with a scope then you are unlikely to pick up any issue with the back teeth.
 
I would suggest a few things. The urine infection may well have caused the weight loss. What antibiotic did she have for this, and when did she finish her last dose? Personally the next step for me would be a quick aneasthic, a blood sample to check her kidneys and liver are working well, full blood count etc, a full dental exam while she's asleep and potentially skull X-rays to check her jaw joint (you need to take several views for this).

Is she showing any other behaviour? Any hyperactivity or out of sorts behaviour like bullying etc? How's her poops now? As she seems so vague with her symptoms I would personally do the above, ensure her teeth are OK for sure and take some blood.

Sorry I'm not a huge amount of help but this is all I can suggest unless she's showing any other signs to go on. You could worm her, but it's unlikely that this is the problem but it wouldn't harm her to.

x
 
My Noodles suffered from weight loss which turned out to be from dental disease even though her teeth looked perfect - it was only picked up on an xray
 
Thank you so much @Wiebke, @furryfriends (TEAS), @Abi_nurse and @TAN for your views on this topic.You are being very helpful, I couldn't ask for more :)! Mimmi is my special piggy, she is so important to me.
I know you say the vet said the teeth were fine, but I suspect this is the issue from how you describe her eating. Maybe an oral thrush if not a dental problem as such. Unfortunately too many vets have no idea what guinea pig teeth are supposed to look like. How did your vet examine the teeth? If it was just from looking in the mouth with a scope then you are unlikely to pick up any issue with the back teeth.
The vet didn't X-ray Mimmi's jaw area. She said she got so good look at the back teeth and also their outer surface rushing the cheek so she could be positive the problem wasn't her teeth or some wound in her mouth. Vet said her teeth look just perfect and she has used evenly both sides. She also felt her jaw quite thoroughly and said that sides are symmetrical and there is no swelling or soreness, so she said there's no need to take an X-ray that time.
Teeth/jaw problems were what I suspected would be the issue, so they were examined twice. Vet rinsed the mouth very well and said the view was clear. This vet is one of the top guinea pig experts in Finland so I trust her, but of course I will take Mimmi to vet's again if this doesn't get better in a week or so and ask for the X-ray!
I would suggest a few things. The urine infection may well have caused the weight loss. What antibiotic did she have for this, and when did she finish her last dose? Personally the next step for me would be a quick aneasthic, a blood sample to check her kidneys and liver are working well, full blood count etc, a full dental exam while she's asleep and potentially skull X-rays to check her jaw joint (you need to take several views for this).x

Mimmi had Baytril, 0,1 ml twice a day for three weeks. The last dose was given exactly one week ago.
The problem is with the blood sample is that the vet said they would have to take so large amount of blood she would not recommend it to so small and feeble piggy. Also, unfortunately, in Finland there are no experience or real means to treat liver or kidney conditions on guinea pigs :(. We discussed these possibilities with the vet, because she was warning me that the blood in the urine could be coming from somewhere else than the bladder. I will ask about these things again it if we have the third visit to vet's. Right now Mimmi is doing good, though. The blood from the urine is gone for now after the antbiotics, so that supports the theory of the urinal infection.
Is she showing any other behaviour? Any hyperactivity or out of sorts behaviour like bullying etc? How's her poops now? As she seems so vague with her symptoms I would personally do the above, ensure her teeth are OK for sure and take some blood.

Sorry I'm not a huge amount of help but this is all I can suggest unless she's showing any other signs to go on. You could worm her, but it's unlikely that this is the problem but it wouldn't harm her to.x
There actually has been bullying situations (I have five girls living together in a large pen) both involving Mimmi and not. Mimmi was in a heat a couple of days ago, and was hyperactive then. She and Pimu (the youngest and lowest in hierarchy) were making quite serious threats at each other which I've never seen happen before between them. There is still some heat-like behaviour going on. And right now the pack leader, Eukko is having an serious argument with the pack number two Tyllerö. It seems like they are almost at the edge of a proper fight. This is not normal either. Everyone still gets to eat in peace so far.
It could be because I have had to separate Mimmi with Eukko or Pimu for some hours in a day to eat pellets. I can't give them to Hupakko or Tyllerö because Hupakko is already nearly obese and Tyllerö is not far behind.
Could this be a symptom of something, too?

P.S. Mimmi sends her thanks, too:
_DSC1984_zpsjkryx3ws.jpg
 
Thank you so much @Wiebke, @furryfriends (TEAS), @Abi_nurse and @TAN for your views on this topic.You are being very helpful, I couldn't ask for more :)! Mimmi is my special piggy, she is so important to me.

The vet didn't X-ray Mimmi's jaw area. She said she got so good look at the back teeth and also their outer surface rushing the cheek so she could be positive the problem wasn't her teeth or some wound in her mouth. Vet said her teeth look just perfect and she has used evenly both sides. She also felt her jaw quite thoroughly and said that sides are symmetrical and there is no swelling or soreness, so she said there's no need to take an X-ray that time.
Teeth/jaw problems were what I suspected would be the issue, so they were examined twice. Vet rinsed the mouth very well and said the view was clear. This vet is one of the top guinea pig experts in Finland so I trust her, but of course I will take Mimmi to vet's again if this doesn't get better in a week or so and ask for the X-ray!


Mimmi had Baytril, 0,1 ml twice a day for three weeks. The last dose was given exactly one week ago.
The problem is with the blood sample is that the vet said they would have to take so large amount of blood she would not recommend it to so small and feeble piggy. Also, unfortunately, in Finland there are no experience or real means to treat liver or kidney conditions on guinea pigs :(. We discussed these possibilities with the vet, because she was warning me that the blood in the urine could be coming from somewhere else than the bladder. I will ask about these things again it if we have the third visit to vet's. Right now Mimmi is doing good, though. The blood from the urine is gone for now after the antbiotics, so that supports the theory of the urinal infection.

There actually has been bullying situations (I have five girls living together in a large pen) both involving Mimmi and not. Mimmi was in a heat a couple of days ago, and was hyperactive then. She and Pimu (the youngest and lowest in hierarchy) were making quite serious threats at each other which I've never seen happen before between them. There is still some heat-like behaviour going on. And right now the pack leader, Eukko is having an serious argument with the pack number two Tyllerö. It seems like they are almost at the edge of a proper fight. This is not normal either. Everyone still gets to eat in peace so far.
It could be because I have had to separate Mimmi with Eukko or Pimu for some hours in a day to eat pellets. I can't give them to Hupakko or Tyllerö because Hupakko is already nearly obese and Tyllerö is not far behind.
Could this be a symptom of something, too?

P.S. Mimmi sends her thanks, too:
_DSC1984_zpsjkryx3ws.jpg

Make sure that you feed the two others the same food (although in a smaller quantity) as Mimmi, as it can really upset a group if they think that one of them is hogging stuff and not sharing. As long as they have all the same scent around the mouth, it is OK.
 
Make sure that you feed the two others the same food (although in a smaller quantity) as Mimmi, as it can really upset a group if they think that one of them is hogging stuff and not sharing. As long as they have all the same scent around the mouth, it is OK.
Ok! I hadn't thought of that! I will from now on feed everyone some pellets!
It only seems that Hupakko will gain weight just by smelling the treats :)) as she has already gone up more than 50 grams in a few weeks when Mimmi hasn't been well.
 
Ok! I hadn't thought of that! I will from now on feed everyone some pellets!
It only seems that Hupakko will gain weight just by smelling the treats :)) as she has already gone up more than 50 grams in a few weeks when Mimmi hasn't been well.

I would recommend to switch to feeding a limited portion of pellets once or twice daily; in a bowl for each piggy. Take Mimmi out for her larger portion, but this way, they all get theirs at the same time and there should hopefully be no more upsets. Any extra treats for Mimmi you need to give a pinch of to the others.
 
I'm going to to be little to no help Leeni, but I hope you come to a conclusion with little Mimi. My elderly Boar is suffering the same mystery weight loss (full x-rays, urine tests, dental exams) and he is still loosing if he is not supported. Like Mimi he has always been petite, and he has been stabilised at about 720g.

No, that hair loss has nothing to do with her current issue. I was thinking about Cushing's disease, which is VERY rare in guinea pigs, but can be connected with sudden heavy weight loss, heavy drinking and hair loss in certain areas (but not the legs). Thankfully, it doesn't seem likely.
@Wiebke do you know where hair loss in piggies would occur with cushings? I have had hamsters with it in the past and it always started on the back and the top of the head. I noticed this morning that Blake has a spot that is balding on his throat. And it is thinning hair loss, not a sore nasty patch or been pulled out.
 
I'm going to to be little to no help Leeni, but I hope you come to a conclusion with little Mimi. My elderly Boar is suffering the same mystery weight loss (full x-rays, urine tests, dental exams) and he is still loosing if he is not supported. Like Mimi he has always been petite, and he has been stabilised at about 720g.


@Wiebke do you know where hair loss in piggies would occur with cushings? I have had hamsters with it in the past and it always started on the back and the top of the head. I noticed this morning that Blake has a spot that is balding on his throat. And it is thinning hair loss, not a sore nasty patch or been pulled out.
I hope Blake will get better soon!

Now there has been a new turn to Mimmi's mystery illness. She is moving glumsyly, a bit like hopping. She has had this, too, before, about a year ago but then it was with her hind legs. We visited the vet then, nothing wrong with legs or spine. Now I think it's her front legs that are causing the problem.
This is so frustrating.. It might be that she has just somehow sprained a leg... It doesn't seem to hurt and she moves a lot. And now she has finally gain some more weight, last night she was over 800 grams.
 
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