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My Boys... and their dilemma!

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So, I joined the forum to search through all the advice and help, and have found more than I imagined! I've also felt a nice "community" feeling here, I already recognise a few of you, and your guinea pigs!
So I thought I'd tell my Guinea pigs' lives stories so you can get to know me! I'd also like to know any similar stories (which I have seen some of already, thank you for sharing!), and opinions as to what to do!

So, I've had guinea pigs as a child and loved them all! I went to uni and missed having their squeaks, so when me and my boyfriend moved into a large share-house together in our second year (last september) we both agreed to buy "a couple of females"... we looked around a few shops, and although we fell in love with them all, we saw Lucian... he was unusual looking (i think he's a teddy?) and much quieter than the others, in quite a large group he stuck to just chilling out in a corner, with a couple of the others, or by himself (we watched for a while)... We had researched introductions, as we weren't sure if we'd end up with one or two, and felt confident with later introducing a second.

Lucian (all grown up... can't find his baby pictures!) :

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he settled right in, the first night we had him he came right over to the bars before we'd even offered food - he just liked company! On the second day we opened the lid and stroked him, to which he wasn't bothered, so we got him out for a cuddle, the next week went on like this, and often, we'd have him out on the floor in between us with the cage door open, and he'd hop back in for a wee, then hop back out to us!
He had plenty of cuddles and company, so we were happy that he was happy, until he started getting quiet (looking back, I think he was just growing out of popcorning a bit and getting more "sophisticated")
So, we went back to research, and continued as we were...

In feb, when shopping for some food for him we went to a shop we don't normally use, we saw Winston... he was by himself, in a hamster cage, with nothing to hide under or behind, with just a whole floppy-looking carrot in front of him... he was beautiful, even in this state! and I couldn't leave him there... we left the shop to discuss it outside and came up with an introduction plan, afterall, Lucian was chilled out with anything right? :P
We also agreed, if it didn't work out, we could take winston to a rescue - at least he would be kept in nicer conditions than at that pet store....

Winston (with a whole carrot, we thought he might feel at home with it!) :

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we gave them a bath together, which shocked little winston a bit! and put them in a large run made from C&C on the spare bedroom floor - we moved it and changed it around from what Lucian had been in before, and had bought a second of everything lucian had.

This was taken as a "first encounter" photo:

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Lucian was trying to lick winston through the bars - his nose, and down his body if winston laid down... we gave them some time together which wen treally well, they cuddled up together and lucian cleaned Winston. Lucian also seemed to let winston eat his "chew-poo" from his bum... winston was very... erm... excited... mounting lucian quite a lot.. poor lucian.. but this quickly died down!

we resisted the temptation to leave them together for too long, and split them for the night - only to come back to winston having jumped over the divider over night, but all was well and they were cuddling!

For a couple of months they lived happily:

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but they started getting quite noisy, and lucian became very timid with us, even nipping us occasionally. I was going away for three weeks so left them in the charge of Craig, and in the end, he had to take the difficult decision to separate them - they'd been getting noisier and noisier and one morning he woke up and found lucian had lost some of his ear, and winston had a cut under his chin...

the cage they lived in was 2 storey, so separating them was, luckily, easy:

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(it looks dark and gloomy there, but it's right opposite a window which they get light from all day long!)

now I'm at home for the summer, my mum has her own guineas, so has a set-up outside, which we adapted to give mine a turn outside, with a divider. there was a clear strip of grass that they'd eaten either side of the divider, and they'd often sleep next to one another, so me and mum thought maybe after another few months winston had grown up a bit and calmed down! We took the divider out, and there was a lot of mounting from winston, lucian seemed to ignore him completely and continue to graze!

after a few afternoons like this they were so settled together, so we put the two floors next to eachother on the floor inside, after a week or so we cleaned it completely, changed it around and opened up the middle grid. they got on really well, but we didn't leave them in together for too long, but never split them up completely, leaving them where they could see one another, and they would touch noses through the bars. We began leaving them for longer and longer and all was well...

then all of a sudden they had a fight and blood was everywhere! on closer inspection, it was just a cut on lucian's foot, which he's had to go on antibiotics for since it swelled up pretty bad... but still, I've seen in lots of places, if they draw blood, split them up! so I have, this is their current set-up:

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but I think winston is stressed with lucian there, his fur looks chewed, which he can only have done himself, and he behaves so differently if i put him in his side, while lucian is out on the grass - as soon as lucian is there winston chews the bars and won't leave the divider... is he lonely? or defensive?

So, I love both my boys, but want the best for them... I don't have space for more guinea pigs (if I could have them neutered and get females) although when they were getting on better I was going to build a third, in-between floor, with a divider, so they could see eachother, or stick to their own floors...

Phew! so there's my guinea pigs! and the dilemma I now have! I hope you like the photos! but they don't show off winston's skirt at all... I'll have to do better in future!
 
Very sweet boys. Shame they don't get on. If you have the room perhaps get each of them a male friend they get on with. Many rescues do boar dating and make sure that the piggies will get on before they leave. Getting them male friends is much less risky for them than getting them neutered to go with girls. How old are they? If they were both babies at the time you got them then they will both still be in the teen hormonal stage. Keep them apart till they are past that and maybe try again one last time before finding new friends.
 
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Looking at your set up, if it is 4x2 that each boy has there that is big enough for a friend each. You could have a 2 storey 4x2 and have more floor space.
 
Lovely boys, sorry they didn't get along. Hoping someone with some bonding advice may be able to help and be along soon...

Welcome to the forum
 
I wouldn't rebond - they have drawn blood twice now, and it is very likely to happen again.

With a C&C cage you can consider going two story; so having two boars on each floor is worth a consideration - and it is you cheapest and least heart wrenching option. Going for full (residential) boar bonding means that any pairs will be about as stable as a sow bond and a fall out unlikely. A 2x4 12 inch grid cage has about the same floor space as a traditional 2x5 ft cage, so you will be OK on space.

Neutering both boars so they can go with a girl each means that you will need to find a very good vet with experience and a good track record in piggy neutering, otherwise it can easily turn into a very expensive nightmare. It is something only worth considering if boar bonding fails, as sadly post op neutering complications are still quite frequent. Neutering also involves a full 6 weeks post op wait until a boar is 100% safe to go with girls (I have an over 5 weeks post surprise baby from a supposedly safe neutered boar to prove this particular point!)

If you really cannot afford to rebond each boar, you have either got the choice of keeping them next to each other or approach a rescue to ask whether they would be prepared to do a one boar swap with you - both boars get rebonded, but one will return with his new mate back to you and the other will stay at the rescue to go to new home with another character compatible friend. However, either of these two last options will come with a certain amount of unhappiness - either for the boys or for you and your OH. You could consider getting your hay cheaply either from a local stables or farm, or over the internet to make up for the additional cost.

Best of luck! Unfortunately, your dilemma has no easy or straight forward fix.
 
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sounds familiar..

i had this same problem with two boys, Frank was alone (mis-sold as a female..) so i got him a companion in the shape of Alfred..
Alfred is very naughty, he sounds a lot like you Winston! constant almost obsessive mounting, biting, taking chunks of ears etc. some pigs just arent compatible, I tried everything.. replacing scented bedding after cleaning them out.. bathing them together. they were fine for the first few months then Alfred changed as he matured and he simply will not get on with Frank :(
he's such a loving little man though and I love him to bits, here he is..
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Wow! thanks for all the replies! I'll try and answer all the questions!

Piggyme234 - Yes, they are quite young, we've had lucian a year exactly now, so he's probably around 14 months, and Winston is around 8 months, one thread I've read has suggested past 14 months? I think I will see if Winston calms down after that... it's definitely him who's the trouble-maker..even though he's adorable! It's a 3x2 (well...almost 2). It's usually stacked, but it'll soon be three storeys, so they'll have the 3x almost 2 plus half the middle level!

Wiebke - Yes, I am worried and reluctant to try reintroducing them again - do you think if it is just Winston being hormonal it might be ok next summer? Neutering does worry me, as it is always risky, but I've read that it's often a more stable bond to have males with females? maybe it's not worth the risk though. A boar swap sounds great in theory but I'd have to say goodbye to one of them :(

Miss Figs Pigs - Alfred sounds very similar to Winston! He's adorable! But yes, it's almost as if when he was a baby he was just happy to have lucian as an older brother taking care of him, now he's being a rebelious teen trying to overthrow the dominance... Lucian is so good...he tolerated a lot, but then he'd suddenly get annoyed and that would spark off a fight - which Lucian always came out worse from!
 
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