My recent P@H experience

[mikulinek]

Hello all,

I know everyone has their own opinion about P@H which, in the main, most of us share. I also know a lot of members boycott P@H and I can totally understand and agree with the motivation behind that.

I'm not in total agreement with the boycotting as a way to challenge P@H and have given my reasons for this.

Any way, with that said, my wife and I were just in our local P@H picking up some hay. At the same time, a young fmaily with three little girls were buying two guinea pigs and were getting their "informative" talk from the saleswoman. I couldn't help overhearing (mostly because I was trying to) and, of course, while a lot of it was good advice, it was far too quick and some of it was awful advice...

I was gearing myself up to say something when the saleswoman said "because they're males, there's a slim chance that they won't get on. If that happens you can get them neutered and that should sort it out"...

That was all I needed to hear and politely interrupted her and said "I'm sorry but neutering doesn't alter boar behaviour". She immediately got on the defensive and argued that it does and that any vet would say that it does and that it removes the hormones etc. I said that they also prodice testosterone in their grease glands and there is plenty of evidence to show that neutering does not alter behaviour...

At this point she repeated that any vet you talk to will tell you that neutering improves behaviour. Unfortunately she was to irate and talking quite quickly so I didn't pick up what chain of vets she was referring to but apparently the vets they use all say that neutering alters behaviour. She also said that the RSPCA say that neutering alters behaviour - can this be true?

Any way, she was obviously upset that I had challenged her and went off to get something. Thankfully, the family were very nice and we had a good chat while the saleswoman was away and they seemed nice. I told them about the forum, about boar adolescence and recommended they get as much information as they can. I did say that the saleswoman has to know about tons of animals so she can't be expected to know everything about guinea pigs so it's best to speak to owners and specialists.

Any way. While I'm quite proud of myself for speaking out, it got me thinking about what she said.

A, I know a lot of vets don't know the first thing about guinea pigs. Again, this is not a criticism but they have to know about so many species that it's understandable they don't know everything about guinea pigs. Can we find out (should I write) to P@H and ask from whom they are getting their vetinary advice?

B, can this actually be true about the RSPCA? Do they say that neutering alters behaviour?

C, Can we get a definitive study that I can use when approaching P@H that proves that neutering does not alter boar behaviour?

Thanks everyone

x

 

[Mother Hubbard]

I certainly can't answer all your questions, however big congrats for challenging the staff, and again giving good advice to potential new owners.xx>>>

 

[taram]

RSPCA's website doesn't say neutering affects behaviour http://www.rspca.org.uk/allaboutanimals/pets/rodents/guineapigs/company

Only points on that page that say about males, behaviour and neutering are below:

• A good combination is a neutered male and one or more females. Two females can also live together. Litter brothers who are neutered may also successfully live together, if they have been brought up together.
• Get your male guinea pigs neutered, unless they are intended for breeding and provisions have been made to care for both parents and offspring.
  
• Guinea pigs that are brought up together will usually get on with each other, but males introduced for the first time as adults may fight.

For question C does this paper's abstract help? Haven't read the paper, just this abstract. http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/com/46/2/138/ I thought it was common knowledge though that all neutering does for pigs is prevent baby pigs, nothing more!

 

[Guinea pig slave]

I'm actually on the fence on this one :{
I have two boars and when they hit the hormonal stage at around 5 months, one was constantly chasing and humping the other to the extent I considered splitting them to give the quieter piggy a rest :...
They were both neutered and everything settled...they live very happily together 16 months later and have not had any 'rudies' since.

 

[gogoguineas]

I think it can depend on the piggy, i mean removing the testicles certainly removes most of the testosterone so will alter behaviour a lot of the time but its definately not a guarantee.
It may calm one animal down but not the next. For me personally it would be my very last resort.

 

[hollie917]

I'm no expert by no means, i only have two piggies who are girls but i would think that its completely down to the piggies if it is hormones ie chasing and humping the other thats the problem then maybe it will calm them but if its a constant fight for domanence then i dont think neuturing would work at all

 

[Hanwombat]

Guinea pig neutering to alter their behaviour is a very opinionated topic as somd people reckon it does help calm them whilst others disagree.

But well done for challenging the Pets at Home staff

 

[Dusty_bugs]

I've had to neuter to boars in the past due to very unfortunate sexing mistakes - the first a childhood friend.. the second by the RSPCA themselves! Whoops!

the first thing I will say is that it did NOTHING to their behaviour- obviously they were not aggressive because they lived with a little lady at the time (both lived with a single lady each, not 2 males and a girl!). They were just as rambunctious but as they grew up they did calm down - but I put this to ageing.. not the snip.

Good on you for sticking up for the new owners and their right to REAL advice. I agree 100% that the people who work in pet shops and the vets have a real love for animals (in most cases) and give as much knowledge as they can but nothing compares to a specialist opinion and joint advice from a community like ours.

 

[Amanda1801]

Where is all this "evidence" that I keep hearing about?

I've had fighting boars neutered...it sorted out all their problems and they all lived happily ever after.

 

[MishImpossible]

Re: Pets at Home, I think I made some off-hand comment to my vet about their less than stellar reputation and he said that "They're not as a bad as they used to be" and told me that they are the local vet for our PAH here. The vet told me in a different conversation that if our little boar doesn't stop rumblestrutting and being a little bit of a bully (they don't fight, they just don't like to share hence why I have two of everything) then I should get them neutered. I don't know if PAH enlist the help of local vets in every branch but i thought it was interesting info to add to the discussion.

For this and a couple of other reasons that have put me off my current vet I'm going to another vet in future recommended by Cat&ThePiggies in my local area. Side note: Isn't it great to find people from your local area on the forum!?

 

[Suzygpr]

I've had several boars come in for dating that have been neutered so they would get on, after advice from the owners vets - it failed to work so they came here sow dating instead.

I've not tried pairing neutered boys together to see if they get on as it's usually the most aggressive males that get done so pairing them with a female is the obvious choice.

Suzy x

 

[Wiiiiieek!]

Urgh! P@H make me mad...

I understand some people consider neutering as a solution for boars fighting but in my experience of having a total of 17 pigs, including 4 boars, it makes no difference imho.

Good on you for challenging the staff though!

All 4 of my boars were neutered including Rasher (RIP) and Wiiiiieek, who were a bonded pair when I got them but as soon as Wiiiiieek hit that hormonal time, he and Rash ceased to get on and started taking lumps out of each other. After neutering, they still couldn't be anywhere near each other and were paired with girls in separate cages.

Also, my cavy savvy vet practice has at least 4 pig savvy vets and all of them hate pets at home for various reasons including wrong advice, selling ill, pregnant and miss-sexed animals (not limited to pigs). In fact, my favorite vet who baby talks my pigs and I often talk about how rubbish they are when I go in.

And when they do neuterings, they always go through their own checklists, as they did with me before signing the consent form and they always reminded me it won't change behaviour - so there's 4 vets right there who disagree with that stupid p@h employee. Yes, it probably does vary from pig to pig but I don't think they should be telling anyone that neutering WILL solve the problem if boars start fighting! My other two boars Coconut and Pancake as as gentle as anything but I definitely wouldnt chance putting them together.

I also understand that if it's a choice between your pigs not eating (I don't know... Internet down and nothing suitable in a petshop that doesn't sell animals (or even one that does in an emergency) or supermarket, or no grassy areas around etc, which I doubt would be the case) that buying from p@h in that emergency situation would be acceptable but I would never, ever get any animal from them and do tell anyone else that'll listen, not to either...

Good on you for advising those people. The more people that get the correct advice, no matter how or where from, the better.

 

[Glynis]

Well done for offering advice !

too often the incorrect info is given to new owners mallethead