Need some advice about bonding.

[outdoorpajamas]

Hello, I don't generally like posting on forums (or anywhere), since I'm more of a perpetual lurker, but I do need a bit of advice - I have read through the guide, but am not sure if I should try again as it went poorly.

I recently lost my sow to very aggressive lymphoma. She was 2.5 years old. I myself am not particularly interested in getting another guinea pig, but my neutered boar (same age) was looking a little down and not his usual self, so I went about trying to find a new friend for him - preferably one around the same age, as I don't think I want to continue to keep guinea pigs after my boar is no longer with me. Anyway, I was looking through adoption listings and checking rescues (they don't have many where I live and don't do play dates here) for a single sow (most of them are in pairs already) and did finally find one. Long story short I tried to introduce them, but she got very aggressive with him, was showing teeth and lunged at him. She did draw blood so I separated them immediately. My question is should I try to introduce them again or should I consider this a failure? I don't want to continue to stress my boar out, or either of them really, if it seems like it's not going to work. I didn't introduce them right away as I wanted her to get settled in, but I don't know if maybe I should have waited longer. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Viennese Furbabies]

Did you introduce them on neutral grounds?
How old is she? Do you know anything about her previous living arrangements?

Adult sow can be quite difficult to bond and once blood is drawn the piggy that got hurt is usually reluctant to trust the other pig.
But sometimes a bonding that looks bad the first time round can work at another time once the sow is in season. At that time most sows are interested in boars.

 

[outdoorpajamas]

Did you introduce them on neutral grounds?
How old is she? Do you know anything about her previous living arrangements?

Adult sow can be quite difficult to bond and once blood is drawn the piggy that got hurt is usually reluctant to trust the other pig.
But sometimes a bonding that looks bad the first time round can work at another time once the sow is in season. At that time most sows are interested in boars.

She's about two years old I believe. I'm not sure about her previous living arrangements. She wasn't listed as a solo so I presumed she would be okay with others (maybe my mistake?) - she seems fine by herself, but that's just my initial impression. I had intended to introduce in the bathroom but my sister just got a dog yesterday. I didn't want to chance it since somebody is always going in and out, so I had them in a playpen in the room I keep them in though I can try to find a better space should I try again -I'll have to keep an eye out for the next time she's in heat. I would hate to have to bring her back since she was given up once already (at least I assume so), but I have to think of my boar.

Thank you for the response.

 

[weepweeps]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I’m sorry for your loss.

I think I’d keep them side by side for a few days. Maybe a week so they can get used to each other though the bars and give it another go on neutral territory. Good luck. I hope they want to be together.

 

[Viennese Furbabies]

I agree with @weepweeps and would keep them side by side for a while before trying to bond them again.
Bonding is very stressful and they have to get the stress hormones out of their system before you can try again.
Ideally you should see no aggression at the divider before you attempt another bonding, only positive interactions or at least indifference. If the aggression keeps up, I don't see much hope.

If everything stays calm (though your boar could be quite persistent about getting in with the girl), I would switch sides, she goes into his side, he into hers. One thing you have to be careful of is that your boar doesn't get into her part on his own. Surprises like that don't work out in most cases.

If you notice the girl coming into heat, give it a try. It will be quite loud and emotional, with chasing, mounting, teeth chattering. They could even start a fight. There is a very fine line between full on aggression and acceptable behaviour that can be seen during bonding. Of course you don't want either of them to get hurt but if you break the bonding off too soon, they don't have a chance to work it out. Be prepared that it could take several hours before you can let them out of your sight for even a short while. Try not to transfere your own nervousness onto them. Guinea pigs are very suceptible to emotional transfer, especially fear and negative excitment.

Maybe he just caught her on the wrong paw during the first encounter, maybe she doesn't like him or maybe he reminds her of somepig she didn't like. In the first case, you just need time and patience. In the second case, it probably won't work out. In the third case, it could go either way. But since she is "only" two years old, she should be interested in him at one point or another.
Good luck!

 

[outdoorpajamas]

Thank you for the suggestions. I have the enclosures side by side now. Makes for a tight squeeze for me, but I haven't observed anything major (a little bar biting and some sniffing). So I will see how it goes over the next few days. Thanks again.

 

[outdoorpajamas]

Hello again, I just wanted to give an update and ask for another piece of advice since I am not really sure of how to proceed from here. I had tried placing the two together in neutral territory not long after my last post and it didn't seem promising so I separated them. I was prepared to keep them separated with a divider but I figured I would try again so I placed them in the bathtub for a few hours (this was at the beginning of last month). Haru, my sow, is very much a boss pig and she let Kyo, my boy, know that even though he didn't put up much of a fuss. He was covered in scratches by the end of it (I neglected to mention in my first post that they're skinny pigs so any injuries stick out like a sore thumb so maybe the bites looked worse than they actually were). Anyway, they both got tired out and it seemed to be okay so I moved them to the enclosure and they've been together since then with Haru constantly reminding him that she's boss. He was tolerating it for the most part until she got in the way of some of his routines, but overall they seemed okay (I don't want to say great), which brings me to where I am currently.

Recently Kyo's weight has been dropping (I've been weighing him every Sunday) and his poops were smallish, so I took him to the vet last week. He had had trouble with his teeth at the beginning of the year so I wanted to find out if that was the problem again - his teeth were fine so the vet said maybe he has the beginnings of GI stasis so he was prescribed cisapride. His poops are a little better but his weight is still dropping (I switched to weighing him every day) - and I'm beginning to think that Haru is keeping him from eating. Observing her over the past few days she has been chasing him more than usual, nipping his behind, creeping behind him even when he's at the water bottle, chasing him away from all of the hay piles even during floor time, constantly rumbling at him and just being an overall menace. She has brief moments, usually during lettuce time, when she's calm and lets him eat but after that she starts up again. If I give him something, she comes and steals it. This evening I put them back into the enclosure and she started chasing him around and nipping at him again like they were meeting for the first time so I had to put a divider between them, but she was biting at the divider so I covered it with a towel.

I know it can take a while for pairs to settle down but they weren't really having any major problems until maybe the past week or two - which coincides with the weight loss, so I am wondering if this sounds like she has an underlying health issue or is it just normal behavior and the bond is just not working out? Maybe I brought the wrong pig to the vet? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[Piggies&buns]

It takes two weeks for them to fully establish their bond.
On the face of it, This is sounding like the bond probably isn’t a good one. Whether it is just that they actually don’t get on or whether them not getting on is caused by her feeling unwell would require a vet check.

Do get her checked by the vet but if she is medically sound then this may be a case of bullying. Bullying is unfortunately bond breaking.

Her taking food from him and wanting everything he has is normal for dominance but not to the point he is losing weight (that would be considered bullying).

How much weight has he lost?
Switch to more frequent weight checks and You may need to support feed him
Does he appear unhappy at all?

The normal course of action if you suspect an issue with a bond is a temporary separation for a few days. If kyo perks up being away from her then that is a pretty good sign that he isn’t happy being with her. That can be all the sign you need to decide to keep them apart.
If you unsure you can choose to give reintroduction on neutral territory and see whether they have missed each other and go back together happily or not. If they do then they go back to the cage. If they don’t then I’m afraid it’s permanent separation.

If you determine that she is bullying him (bullying goes beyond dominance) then they would have to remain separated.

Can you tell us how big the cage is?
Do all hides have two exits?

Bonds In Trouble