Need to separate my girls?

[cashewandpeppa]

Wiebke’s page on sow behaviors says this:
“Typical dominance behaviours include rumbling while shifting the weight from one back leg to the other ("rumble-strutting" ), teeth chattering, head-butting and nipping (a carefully judged gesture of power that lets the recipient only feel the teeth but not harm it, with the under-sow protesting loudly/squeaking submission) and bullying practices like taking over the hut, food bowl, hay etc.
nswering defiant clucking noise), yawning, going chin to chin (pushing their heads up facing each other), chasing, nipping and little scuffles can result. It can look pretty rough to us humans. Don't separate until there are serious, bloody fights; the girls NEED to sort out their differences without our interference!”

I’m a very experienced pig owner that’s been through every common illness, many bondings and re-bondings post-surgeries, etc. as well as rescuing pigs and my girls are acting in a way that I can find NO information on anywhere online. I have reached out to our Instagram followers as well and no one’s even heard of an experience like ours.

After a year together, my more dominant pig lashed out and began lunging and biting (no blood yet) at her very submissive sister one night about a month ago. I did an overnight separation so they wouldn’t fight while I slept, and Cashew (the submissive pig) never once challenged Peppa’s dominance. Cashew is a pig who will not stand up for herself, ever. She is always bullied by Peppa. No illnesses found even through x-rays at the vet.

I re-bonded them last week and it’s now been 7 days straight of Peppa bullying Cashew. Nipping, lunging, Cashew not being able to eat from certain hay piles, Cashew being woken up from her sleep to be chased off, Peppa doing a lot of teeth grinding (different from her chattering noise) at Cashew.

Cashew lets out very very loud shrieks of fear when Peppa approaches her, which is quite often and has not decreased as the days go on. There is nothing more for them to work out, as Cashew will always be the most submissive pig I have ever had or seen.

When do I draw the line and separate permanently? Cashew isn’t eating well with or without Peppa. She seems overall terrified and does horribly alone. I will obviously get more pigs if needed, but I don’t understand what Peppa is doing. She is NOT being challenged.

 

[cashewandpeppa]

It may also be useful to add that when Cashew shrieks, she hides in a corner and freezes until we can calm her down. She is seriously afraid of Peppa but also doesn’t want to be a without her. Peppa has certainly become a horrible bully though. It’s worse than what you read about with boar behaviors.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Cashew’s shrieking is submission squealing, she is telling Peppa that she knows Peppa is in charge but if Peppa is relentless to the point that Cashew isn’t allowed to eat and is becoming withdrawn, then I would separate them. It doesn’t sound to be a harmonious relationship sadly
Bonds In Trouble

 

[cashewandpeppa]

@Wiebke how long would you let the chasing, chattering, lunging and nipping go on before separating the bullied pig? I wouldn’t mind it if Peppa did it often but never stopped her from eating and drinking. The problem is that she does it all the time, while Cashew sleeps and tries to eat and drink.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I think you need to separate now if it is effecting the underpigs ability to eat and sleep

 

[Wiebke]

@Wiebke how long would you let the chasing, chattering, lunging and nipping go on before separating the bullied pig? I wouldn’t mind it if Peppa did it often but never stopped her from eating and drinking. The problem is that she does it all the time, while Cashew sleeps and tries to eat and drink.

Hi!

Try a trial separation and follow the tips in this guide link here in order to assess Cashew's opinion on whether she wants to be with Peppa and take it from there. But it sounds to me like acceptance (the first step of the bonding process) has never happened.
Bonds In Trouble
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[cashewandpeppa]

Acceptance phase definitely happened as they spent about 8 hours on neutral territory, no blood has ever been drawn, and they ended up laying together many times. It’s just that for the vast majority of each day, Peppa is bullying Cashew away from certain hay piles or water bottles and even kicks her out of her favorite spots by lunging at her.
It’s about 70/30 - 30% of the time Peppa is just fine with Cashew and accepts her presence, while the other 70% of the time Peppa is nipping and lunging and grinding her teeth to send Cashew shrieking, running, and hiding.

 

[Wiebke]

Acceptance phase definitely happened as they spent about 8 hours on neutral territory, no blood has ever been drawn, and they ended up laying together many times. It’s just that for the vast majority of each day, Peppa is bullying Cashew away from certain hay piles or water bottles and even kicks her out of her favorite spots by lunging at her.
It’s about 70/30 - 30% of the time Peppa is just fine with Cashew and accepts her presence, while the other 70% of the time Peppa is nipping and lunging and grinding her teeth to send Cashew shrieking, running, and hiding.

Please do a trial separation and look how Cashew is feeling when on her own. If she is perking up noticeably when away from Peppa, then the bonding has failed. The bonding process is very complex with several phases, takes about 2 weeks and can fail at any stage.
You can find the detailed advice for a trial spearation in the bonds in trouble guide link in my previous post.
You can find the same advice in the chapter about bullying in this guide link here: Moody guinea pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

In the end, it is you who have to do the assessment yourself as every relationship is unique with its own dynamics. We can only give you the tools for doing your assessment in a way that gives your piggies a say in your decision making process since we cannot ask them directly.