Neutering males: Does it alter behaviour?

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Slightly off topic but related to neutering. I know neutering doesn't calm behaviour down but does it change randy behaviour...lol Like in rabbits. The reason I ask is Pearl had a wee in the laundry basket today which is usual for my white dirty minx! :D However I put Twinkle in the basket with Milo once I cleaned it out and Twinkle was rumbling and showing randy behaviour he has been so calm lately. Sunshine then did the same.

But if they were neutered would that calm down or would they still be the same?
 
SunshineAndTwinkle said:
Slightly off topic but related to neutering. I know neutering doesn't calm behaviour down but does it change randy behaviour...lol Like in rabbits. The reason I ask is Pearl had a wee in the laundry basket today which is usual for my white dirty minx! :D However I put Twinkle in the basket with Milo once I cleaned it out and Twinkle was rumbling and showing randy behaviour he has been so calm lately. Sunshine then did the same.

But if they were neutered would that calm down or would they still be the same?
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From my experience it depends on the personality of the pig, both Albie 0:) and Howie 0:) were neutered; Albie still strutted & tried to mount any new females he came across & was most happy with himself whilst Howie couldn't have cared less about them. :)
 
We had a pair of brothers that started grumbling and having little scraps. After neutering at 6 months both were absolutely fine together, so I don't think you can say it doesn't change behaviour. We have dne this many times at the point of thinking we were going to have to separate and it has worked. If the boys are fine together then I see no reason to neuter. I have absolutely no problems with neutering a boar at all.
 
LucyWoo said:
We had a pair of brothers that started grumbling and having little scraps. After neutering at 6 months both were absolutely fine together, so I don't think you can say it doesn't change behaviour.
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I can with mine. Bart has no idea that he's neutered at all. He mounts the girls, rumbles and drags his butt along the ground like it was all still there. This has been the case for every neutered boar I've ever met. I don't think neutering should be suggested as a behaviour-changing solution because it would appear in the majority of cases it does little to nothing.
 
daftscotslass said:
LucyWoo said:
So how do you explain all the cases we have had where it does then?
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How do you explain all the cases where it doesn't then? ::)
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To my mind, if something works some or most of the time in my experience, it is better to try than not.
 
we got our 2 late boy bunnies fixed and it made not the slightest difference, piggies aren't fixed here in oz so as far as bunnies goes i don't think it works. and our late dog was fixed and up to the age of 14 he was always trying :o :o :o i have said it before and will say it again some boys can't take a hint ::) ::) ::)
 
LucyWoo said:
We had a pair of brothers that started grumbling and having little scraps. After neutering at 6 months both were absolutely fine together, so I don't think you can say it doesn't change behaviour. We have dne this many times at the point of thinking we were going to have to separate and it has worked. If the boys are fine together then I see no reason to neuter. I have absolutely no problems with neutering a boar at all.
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Were your boys neutered together? By that I mean did the vets keep them in the smae cage before and after the op? Sometimes a traumatic experience bonds pigs together when previously they haven't been all that keen. Thats partly why baths work as well as making them smell the same. Car rides can sometimes have the same effect, if the pigs aren't used to it.
 
daftscotslass said:
LucyWoo said:
So how do you explain all the cases we have had where it does then?
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How do you explain all the cases where it doesn't then? ::)
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Age of castration I would think?
Male behaviour – fighting, mounting etc will be partly caused by testosterone and partly a learned behaviour pattern. The reduction in testosterone after castration is only part of the answer – if a boar is castrated after puberty and his male patterns of behaviour have been established he may still mount and fight.

I suspect that it's learned behaviour that causes a problem because cavies are castrated long after puberty. No-one would castrate a horse at eight years old and expect a guarantee that it will not show any stallion behaviour; horses are customarily castrated at 12-24 months i.e. at, or just before, puberty.

Another vague possibility – do cavies have unusually high levels (compared with other animals) of testosterone produced by the adrenal glands? These are sited above the kidneys and, of course, are not removed in castration. If it really is true, as some people say, that castration makes no difference to the male behaviour - is this a possibility?

Castrating cavies, believe me, is a very recent idea. I don’t feel that there is a sufficient body of knowledge in the veterinary profession about castraion or the best age to castrate cavies. I doubt that any research has been done on it. Forum comments such as ‘make sure you take your boar to a vet who has previous experience of the operation’ surely back up my point. You’d hardly expect a horse or dog specialist vet to have little experience of castration as they would have been trained at Vet College, I would reckon small animal specialists trained more than 10 years ago won’t have even heard cavy castration mentioned in their course.

I suspect that to guarantee behavioural changes (or the ‘male’ behaviour never starting) cavies need castrating at 6-10 weeks. Not really an option is it :-\
 
re: guinea pig savvy vet

In theory castration for different animals should be the same - so you could assume if a vet has castrated dogs or horses for over 10 years, he would know how to do it for a piggy. But I do not think its the op in itself that is that different, its things like the anaesthetic that are different for the little body of a piggy, how much and how. Most cases of piggy dying after op was due to the anaesthetic being too strong as opposed to the Op itself going wrong.
 
I've discussed neutering with my vet who is very guinea savvy and it is absolutely Not in theory the same as doing a cat or dog.
Cats and dogs testicles are very prominent and hang outside of the body, guineas groin rings are open allowing testes to be retracted into their abdomen so this is a much riskier op. If done incorrectly abdominal contents can prolapse causing death.That said he personally has done many successful neuters and will be doing my boar when he is of age. I'm not trying to scare anyone but just want to stress that it is an intricate SPECIALIST procedure and not one every vet could be trusted with.
 
Juniper said:
Age of castration I would think?
Male behaviour – fighting, mounting etc will be partly caused by testosterone and partly a learned behaviour pattern. The reduction in testosterone after castration is only part of the answer – if a boar is castrated after puberty and his male patterns of behaviour have been established he may still mount and fight.
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That's interesting as every boar I've met who's been castrated has been done after at least a year so it rings true. Don't know about the physiology side of things but sounds an interesting point.

I'm also interested in how long after neutering males can be put with females. It used to be 2-3 weeks but this recently seems to have inflated to up to 6 weeks?! I wonder where this has come from? Though I suppose it's better to be cautious.
 
Juniper said:
Castrating cavies, believe me, is a very recent idea. I don’t feel that there is a sufficient body of knowledge in the veterinary profession about castraion or the best age to castrate cavies. I doubt that any research has been done on it. Forum comments such as ‘make sure you take your boar to a vet who has previous experience of the operation’ surely back up my point. You’d hardly expect a horse or dog specialist vet to have little experience of castration as they would have been trained at Vet College, I would reckon small animal specialists trained more than 10 years ago won’t have even heard cavy castration mentioned in their course.

I suspect that to guarantee behavioural changes (or the ‘male’ behaviour never starting) cavies need castrating at 6-10 weeks. Not really an option is it :-\
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Right just spoken with my oldest friend of 30 years on reading this who has been a qualfied vet for the last 12 years ;) while she was at Cambridge Uni she did a few Guinea pig neuters all animals can be castrated. However it was not common to neuter piggies but has ALWAYS BEEN POSSIABLE. Many vets do not like neutering such small animals my friend and her husband would not do one. It is tricky operation.
 
Exactly.
12-15 years is 'recent' in terms of the history of Veterinary science! I’m sure I read somewhere that horses have been castrated for 2000 years.
I can assure you that even 8-10 years ago it was very rarely done and I'm sure that your friend will agree with that.
 
I think with male rabbits if you catch them right at the point of puberty and have them castrated their 'male' behaviour calms down a lot, for example no mounting, always friendly, no spraying, but if you have them castrated after they've gone through puberty they still display some of these characteristics :-\
 
I would suggest that the reason it has not been done is the financial value of the guinea pigs. It's only recently that vet medicine has started to research for them, the same can be said of rabbits. I would think that years ago, not many vets would have thought of doing such a thing to a small animal. Horses have always been worth money and were a staus symbol and were well cared for. It's only in recent years that peoples attitudes have changed towards smaller pets, in some cases, peoples attitudes are still awful and they wouldn't pay to treat them but just buy a new one when they die :-\
 
LucyWoo said:
...in some cases, peoples attitudes are still awful and they wouldn't pay to treat them but just buy a new one when they die :-\
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I agree - I'm also disgusted that some vets also think the same as that.
 
Thanks for splitting the thread Lorna, didn't realise this would bring debate. It's an interesting topic. I know that Eccles, Milo and Radley (ie:My submissive boys) would be fine with neutering and if any of them fall out with their dominant cage mates then I would consider it. The other three rumble bums Sunshine, Twinkle and Pudsey would still act all hormonal I think so wouldn't consider them for the op at all.

I also think its awful how some people think they are replacable. They are all so different, I haven't got two the same really. ;D
 
Juniper said:
Exactly.
12-15 years is 'recent' in terms of the history of Veterinary science! I’m sure I read somewhere that horses have been castrated for 2000 years.
I can assure you that even 8-10 years ago it was very rarely done and I'm sure that your friend will agree with that.
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12 /15 recent terms :-\ I dont think so Vets train at Uni for many years more than a doctor more animals to research than a human being. The practice in which she did the piggie neuters was an exotics veternary practice. My friend and her husband come from back grounds where their parents and grandparents were also vets. When my friend and I were in our teens our Boar piggies were neutered so they could live with our sows :)
 
Pumpkinpiggie said:
12 /15 recent terms :-\ I dont think so
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In terms of how long cavies have been kept, bred, shown, in the UK 12-15 years is certainly very recent. I am discussing the trend for castrating cavies, not the length of a veterinary training course (I’m well aware of that as my partner originally started training as a vet).

I’m not sure why you won’t accept that it is a very new trend. You tell me that you and your friend had castrated boars as teenagers, presumably (from the age on your profile) that was 20 years or so years ago. Then you tell me that your friend’s parents and grandparents were all vets. That’s why you had castrated boars – please believe me ‘Joe public’ did not.

There is a reason for this new trend in castrating boars; it is cavy rescues.
Previously if someone had a couple of pet boars, one died, they’d go to a local breeder or a pet shop (supplied by a local breeder) for a baby boar. In the great majority of cases the new youngster would be accepted by the older boar. Now in the current anti-breeder/pet shop atmosphere, the lonely boar has to be bonded with another adult from a rescue. Problem solved by neutering the boar and getting a sow – it’s a new answer to a problem that didn’t particularly exist before.
 
Strange that as I thought rescues did the best thing for the animal. You're basically saying pet shops know better than rescues!

There is the other side to neutering which is population control. With some of the people rescue come across with huge numbers of accidental matings and inadequate housing, it is a complete blessing.
 
LucyWoo said:
Strange that as I thought rescues did the best thing for the animal. You're basically saying pet shops know better than rescues!
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I would certainly prefer to try putting a baby boar with a lone adult rather than putting the adult through a surgical procedure under general anaesthetic. So yes, in that respect, perhaps the traditional system had it's benefits.
There is the other side to neutering which is population control.!
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Yep, there is.
Considering that a cavy doesn’t climb, gnaw it’s way put of cages, jump hedges or disappear out through the cat flap at night I think that population control is up to the owner.
 
Exactly my point. How do you deal with a stupid person who keeps letting them mix and breed, or someone who has kids that mix them? We come across this a lot and neutering proves a good way to deal with the numbers getting out of control.
 
LucyWoo said:
a stupid person who keeps letting them mix and breed, or someone who has kids that mix them?
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Fair comment!
 
Another point in this discussion - I did the "traditional" method last year, mainly because I didn't realise there were so many rescue GPs needing homes, and bought a baby boar to keep my 3 year old boar company (just lost his cagemate)...all was fine for a year until now...I've had constant fighting for 3 wheeks now, and I'm wondering if this is because baby boar has now "come of age" and wants to become the dominant pig (previously the older boar was dominant)....has anyone else heard of this being a pattern? Their behaviour could have been triggered by being outside in a run near the girls' run, but I think this may have happened anyway?
 
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