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New Owners With A Poorly Pig

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leolucy

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Hello all, hoping you can give me some advice. We are first-time guinea pig owners, as of 3 weeks ago when we got 2 boys for my 12 year old daughter, who's been keen on them for some time - Pippin and Caramel. Last Sunday we noticed Caramel seemed a bit off-colour, just quiet and not himself. Later that day my daughter got a terrible shock when she heard a thump and saw him keel over and have what we believe was a seizure. It was short-lived and he seemed to get over it quite quickly. We phoned the emergency vet who advised waiting till Tuesday when the vet would be open, as long as he was eating and pooing okay. He was, so we hung on - very anxiously - until then, with spells of him looking very poorly, and his movements almost seeming drunk - uncoordinated.

That morning I noticed he had a bit of scale on his ear too. The vet (our first experience of this) was just lovely. She felt he was very poorly: said he had a problem with mites; a bit of a head tilt, likely due to an ear infection, and that he was pretty underweight. She felt it was something neurological but went to look up further and came back to say the seizure could in fact be down to the mites. This was a huge relief as I think she was going to suggest putting him to sleep otherwise.

She gave him medicine for the mites and anti-inflammatory drops, then gave me antibiotics in the form of Baytril to give Caramel. Came home, and had a worrying afternoon where he was just not interested in anything (side effects of meds?). Kept the boys apart overnight so I could see what was eaten, and happily he had eaten lots and was a lot perkier. Back to the vets a couple of days later (Thu) and saw the same lady, who was really pleased with him, as she felt even in himself he was much more alert and lively. She was still worried about his legs however, as he was still a bit wonky, so she gave me some of the same anti-inflammatory for him - Metacam.

3 days later, and he just doesn't seem to be making much progress, and I feel helpless and out of my depth as to how to help him. I gave him some of the Metacam earlier, and maybe it's a side effect, but he's now not walking properly - dragging his legs without much control. Also not eating too much....

Any advice or words of wisdom anyone can offer would be so gratefully received! Thanks in advance.
 
Hello and :wel: to the forum! Very sorry to hear that your new piggie is so unwell. Where did you get the two boys from? A breeder, or a pet shop? How old are they? Sadly the problem with his legs sounds like something that has been brewing for a while, and the trauma of moving to a new home may have brought it to the surface. The Metacam would not have done this. Baytril can have an adverse effect on the appetite, rather than make him hungrier, so that is a good sign. The meds will probably take a while longer to kick in, so don't worry too much just yet. If there is no improvement in 7 -10 days, take him back to the Vet. I will tag @Wiebke, @Abi_nurse and @furryfriends (TEAS) who can all help you more than me.
Good luck with your new piggies. :tu::tu::tu:
 
I'm sorry he is so poorly. I have not heard of Metacam affecting walking so I think it is likely related to the ear infection. Usually Metacam is given daily alongside the antibiotics to keep the inflammation under control. I am going to tag @Abi_nurse who may be the best person to help here.
 
Thanks so much for your replies and the welcome @7squeakers. and @helen105281 - it's a relief to talk to people who know more than me.
We got them from Pets at Home and they're about 3 months old now.

Caramel's legs seemed okay this morning (relatively) but were dreadful about an hour after the meds were given. I'm tempted to keep peeping at him but I should just leave him be, shouldn't I? Actually - my daughter just called me in as he was out and about. He seemed to be doing okay - much better legs than earlier. Re the metacam, i was told to give it only if I was sure he'd eaten enough. I haven't been sure he has, and I'm nervous about administering it, so today was the first time I'd given it to him. Blimey, what a roller coaster. Can't believe how attached I am already to these little fellas. Just hoping as hard as I can that Caramel will pull through. His brother is thriving, thankfully.
 
leolucy said:
Hello all, hoping you can give me some advice. We are first-time guinea pig owners, as of 3 weeks ago when we got 2 boys for my 12 year old daughter, who's been keen on them for some time - Pippin and Caramel. Last Sunday we noticed Caramel seemed a bit off-colour, just quiet and not himself. Later that day my daughter got a terrible shock when she heard a thump and saw him keel over and have what we believe was a seizure. It was short-lived and he seemed to get over it quite quickly. We phoned the emergency vet who advised waiting till Tuesday when the vet would be open, as long as he was eating and pooing okay. He was, so we hung on - very anxiously - until then, with spells of him looking very poorly, and his movements almost seeming drunk - uncoordinated.

That morning I noticed he had a bit of scale on his ear too. The vet (our first experience of this) was just lovely. She felt he was very poorly: said he had a problem with mites; a bit of a head tilt, likely due to an ear infection, and that he was pretty underweight. She felt it was something neurological but went to look up further and came back to say the seizure could in fact be down to the mites. This was a huge relief as I think she was going to suggest putting him to sleep otherwise.

She gave him medicine for the mites and anti-inflammatory drops, then gave me antibiotics in the form of Baytril to give Caramel. Came home, and had a worrying afternoon where he was just not interested in anything (side effects of meds?). Kept the boys apart overnight so I could see what was eaten, and happily he had eaten lots and was a lot perkier. Back to the vets a couple of days later (Thu) and saw the same lady, who was really pleased with him, as she felt even in himself he was much more alert and lively. She was still worried about his legs however, as he was still a bit wonky, so she gave me some of the same anti-inflammatory for him - Metacam.

3 days later, and he just doesn't seem to be making much progress, and I feel helpless and out of my depth as to how to help him. I gave him some of the Metacam earlier, and maybe it's a side effect, but he's now not walking properly - dragging his legs without much control. Also not eating too much....

Any advice or words of wisdom anyone can offer would be so gratefully received! Thanks in advance.
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I am very sorry; please see your vet again as soon as possible as there is a deterioration. If can be that the infection or neurological issue has got worse. :(

I haven't heard that metacam has been causing side effects like that.

I am very sorry; it is an area where a vet has to be as much a detective as anything if a straight forward ear injury doesn't respond. :(

Please start syringe feeding and watering him. Here is our step-by-step guide with tips of how you can make the best with what you have got at home in an emergency. It is important that he keeps eating and is getting enough to drink. Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
 
What a journey for you, sorry to hear the difficulties you are having. It's worth considering that if your piggy goes off his food, the meds can affect their appetite and without enough food, they really go downhill...
Luckily as I see Wiekbe has just responded to you, so will sign off from here, good luck. Thank goodness also you have found the forum as lots of great advice.
 
So very sorry to hear you have had a bad start. My Arthur (who sadly passed away 3 days after buying him) and Bruce who is my little fighter both came from P@h :-( I learnt a very hard lesson. Both piggies had very similar symptoms to yours. Have you gone back to P@h? They should be paying the vets bill. I cannot stress enough the importance of critical feed by syringe. It saved my Bruce. Every 2 hours through the night I fed him a mixture of critical care and mushed down pellets. I also hand fed him water. Fingers crossed for you x
 
Sorry to hear about the bad time your having. Please ensure that you tell pets at home your difficulties and get them to foot the bill for the vet visits. Unfortunately Guinea pigs from these stores are still being increasingly unwell due to the poor breeding facilities that these shops get there animals from. They are mass bred (think of puppy farming only small furry farming instead). I'm not trying to make you feel guilty in any way (I have a few pets at home piggies myself) just trying to make you aware that this may well be due to poor breeding.

Sounds like your little one has a few things going on. I'm hoping the siezure type episode was just mite related, has he shown any other twitching signs? The hindlimb weakness may be related or may not, it's very difficult to say, does he have a head tilt or any other odd signs? Neuro signs are so vague that there are such a huge number of things that can cause them, from low blood sugars, imbalances in blood electrolytes, ear infections, central nervous system disease or infection, brain problems from birth or trauma. There is the potential he could have something called e.cuniculi. This is a parasite which can effect the neurological system, it's documented well in rabbits but Guinea pigs have been seen to get it and Neuro signs often flare up when they are unwell or their immune system is lowered. I would suggest putting your little one onto a 28 day course of panacur to cover this. On a side note, one of my pets at home piggies who is now pushing nearly 6 years old has deformed hind legs which cause her to walk very oddly and I have another (pets at home piggie) who is nearly 5 who had Neuro signs when I 'rescued' her. We are pretty sure she either had trauma as a baby or has cerabella hyperplasia. She functions well, though is slowing down somewhat now.

Getting to he bottom of all this is going to be difficult but you need to take one step at a time. If he makes no improvements on his meds you may need to look into further work up and diagnostics to get to bottom of it. Baytril is a somewhat useless antibiotic these days so it may be worth considering something better (if your vet actually does suspect an infection - if they don't he shouldn't be on antibiotics).
You may want to consider some of the following and discuss them with your vet. If your vet is not confident then you will need to see someone more specialised.
- an X-ray to check for any bone deformities, ear infections or spinal issues (spinal issues are not always visible)
- doing a 28 day course of panacur to cover the potential of e.cuniculi
- taking a blood sample to check electrolytes and other blood levels such as red blood cells (if your vet doesn't see many piggies then they may not be confident in this so you may need to see a specialist to get this done)
- changing to a better antibiotic IF your vet thinks there is an infection

These all need to be done in stages and discussed with your vet but it's a start.

I hope he starts to feel better soon.

For now please ensure you weigh both your boys every other day or so to ensure that they are gaining weight as they should be.

x
 
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Ps. As Wiebke has said you may want to consider syringe feeding him if he's not eating enough. I wouldn't panic too much about giving metacam if he's eaten enough, metacam does not have quite the same effect on small herbivores which it does on cats and dogs (it must be given with food in cats and dogs as it can cause digestive upset), herbivore GI system is different so don't worry too much.

x
 
Thanks very much for all the replies.
@Abi_nurse - you're absolutely right, it's e.cuniculi. He stayed at the vet's all day yesterday. When I took him in he was on his feet and chomping away, and when I went back at the end of the day he was listless and on his side. Even the vet was shocked and said he'd been much brighter all day long. I asked if he'd received metacam, and he had. The vet agreed that it was having a detrimental effect on him, somehow. I'm frustrated they gave him this again as I did tell the nurse I was concerned about it when I took him in. The vet said the prognosis seemed bleak, but felt that where there's life, there's hope, and he was encouraged by the fact that Caramel had been eating all day long. Very relieved to hear that. Got more meds - panacur, as you recommended, Abi. Vet said we have to hope that it will be enough, and that it can work quickly enough.

So, even on his side and unable to move, Caramel wanted to eat. So I hand fed him pellets, hay and veg, and syringed him water through the evening and again in the night. He couldn't get enough, it was quite peculiar. He even pooped for the first time in a little while. He seems unable to use his back legs at all, even to sit on - he can only lie on his side. My sister has got him today and is continuing to feed him in the same way. Fingers and toes are all firmly crossed that he can make a recovery from this....

Points noted about Pets At Home. Even the vet said I should contact them about this, and I certainly will. Sounds as though they may be used to this sort of thing? Will not be visiting there again, that is for certain.
 
:D Very glad to hear that Caramel is still eating well. The poops show that his guts are working all right anyway. Sending healing wheeks and vibes for a fast recovery. Let us know how he gets on. :tu::tu::tu:
 
I am keeping my fingers firmly crossed that he pulls through!

Please consider topping him up with syringe feed to make up for any weight loss. Weigh him daily at about the same time in the feeding cycle to keep his fighting strength up.
 
@Wiebke - will do, but he is currently being hand fed, which works. He is taking hay, pellets and fresh veg, and the poos look normal thank goodness. Do you think we should syringe feed on top of this? The biggest problem is that he is so, so thin and weak that he is lying on his side as he can't hold himself up in a normal position - and this means he can't really grab food for himself. Here's hoping that the meds and the food give him the strength he needs to overcome the bug and regain his mobility. My sister, who 24 hours ago was too nervous to pick him up (as we've only had the boys for 3 weeks) has been totally won over by Caramel and is hand feeding him herself now, as I have to work.He is being taken great care of!
 
leolucy said:
@Wiebke - will do, but he is currently being hand fed, which works. He is taking hay, pellets and fresh veg, and the poos look normal thank goodness. Do you think we should syringe feed on top of this? The biggest problem is that he is so, so thin and weak that he is lying on his side as he can't hold himself up in a normal position - and this means he can't really grab food for himself. Here's hoping that the meds and the food give him the strength he needs to overcome the bug and regain his mobility. My sister, who 24 hours ago was too nervous to pick him up (as we've only had the boys for 3 weeks) has been totally won over by Caramel and is hand feeding him herself now, as I have to work.He is being taken great care of!
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You need to still weigh him daily and if necessary have a family member to hold him up on a table or their lap while you top him up with syringe feed. The scales will tell you whether you need to or not - hence why weighing daily at the same time in relation to piggy meals. But syringe feeding can make all the difference for a guinea pig to help it pull through when it is not eating enough. Please remember that up to 80% of the daily food intake is hay!
 
Thanks for all your help everyone. I spoke to the vet on Saturday who was frankly amazed Caramel was still alive and said to keep persevering as it is a slow recovery process. He was eating a fair bit, and slowly regaining some use in his legs which was lovely. However, he died quite suddenly on Tuesday, I'm sorry to say. He was being cuddled, fell asleep, and didn't wake up. We are desperately sad but comforted that he wasn't in pain.

My brilliant vet's surgery has contacted Pets at Home themselves to explain the situation and PAH has agreed to cover all the expenses. Safe to say I won't be getting a pet from there again.

So - I'd now like to ask your advice on moving forward with our remaining piggy, Pippin. He is just 3 months old, and has now been on his own in his cage for 10 days. He seems to be perfectly happy - but I've only had him for a month, and this is my first time owning a piggy, so it's hard to be certain. Should I be looking to find him a new companion now? I'm in Central London and don't have a car, so my options in sourcing a new piggy are quite limited. Should I be looking at rescue centres? How can I tell if two piggies will get on? Hoping you lovely people can help. Or - maybe he's happy on his own.....?
 
so sorry to here that little Caramel didn't make it... well done for doing all you could for the little one xx
 
My deepest sympathy, and sincere condolences.

It would be advisable to have Pippin examined by your veterinarian, and/or to quarantine Pippin for a minimum of three weeks, before searching for a new companion.
 
leolucy said:
Thanks for all your help everyone. I spoke to the vet on Saturday who was frankly amazed Caramel was still alive and said to keep persevering as it is a slow recovery process. He was eating a fair bit, and slowly regaining some use in his legs which was lovely. However, he died quite suddenly on Tuesday, I'm sorry to say. He was being cuddled, fell asleep, and didn't wake up. We are desperately sad but comforted that he wasn't in pain.

My brilliant vet's surgery has contacted Pets at Home themselves to explain the situation and PAH has agreed to cover all the expenses. Safe to say I won't be getting a pet from there again.

So - I'd now like to ask your advice on moving forward with our remaining piggy, Pippin. He is just 3 months old, and has now been on his own in his cage for 10 days. He seems to be perfectly happy - but I've only had him for a month, and this is my first time owning a piggy, so it's hard to be certain. Should I be looking to find him a new companion now? I'm in Central London and don't have a car, so my options in sourcing a new piggy are quite limited. Should I be looking at rescue centres? How can I tell if two piggies will get on? Hoping you lovely people can help. Or - maybe he's happy on his own.....?
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Thank you for the update! I am very sorry for your loss. You have given Caramel all the chance you could. I am sorry that it was some so nasty!
You are welcome to post a tribute to poor Caramel in our Rainbow Bridge section if and whenever it feels right for you.

Please look at rescue centres that allow you to bring Pippin with you, so he can choose his own friend; contact them beforehand and speak to them. I would use the remaining time that is recommended for quarantining Pippin (a typical quarantine period is 2-3 weeks, so you are nearly through it anyway) to do your research as to which rescue is the best for you to get to/has the largest number of suitable potential mates. At least you can be fully reassured that their piggies are all healthy (and fully quarantined) and that the rescue is run by experienced piggy people who can bond your boys for you under expert supervision and also support you during the settling in period as well as the whole life of their adopted piggies.

Two of these rescues are within walking distance of a station, the third is a short taxi trip away:
- Animal Rescue and Care near Twickenham station
- Bobtails Guinea Pig Rescue near East Ewell station
- Furryfriends is a short taxi ride from Coulsdon South station
Contact details can be found via this link here: Guinea Pig Rescue Centre Locator

I have travelled on the train repeatedly myself on over 3 hour journeys including changes with guinea pigs between 7 weeks and 9 years of age, so it can be done and is well worth it!
Travelling with guinea pigs
 
I am so very, very sorry that you have lost Caramel. Please follow Wiebke's advice pn finding Pippin a new companion. The breeders that supply PetsatHome have to carry a lot of the blame for your poorly piggy.
 
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