new piggy - bumblefoot :(

[wannabepiggymum]

Hi all

My partner and I rehomed two piggies recently. Sambuca and Guinness. Guinness developed ringworm a week after we took them on (no prizes guessing where we got them!) and as a result - our vet advised treating both piggies with griseofulvin tabs.
2 weeks into their course of this, Sambuca was found in his hutch pretty cold and non-responsive ( the vet couldn't read a temperature on the poor piggy). He was admitted and warmed up. I took him home that evening, but noticed his front right foot was looking a little swollen and red. In the morning his foot was completely swollen, purple coloured, with purple quicks and nails falling off. Back to the vet who advised it could be pododermatitis OR some bizarre frost bite?
I began treatment with baytril .4mls per day and he has been getting on great over the weekend, eating and moving around. But when I checked him this morning I noticed that his other foot was now going quite pink and that the skin had started blistering a weeping. AGAIN back to work with me, where the vet has prescribed metacam and suggested a epsom salts bathing (although trying to locate some in this area is a nightmare!).

I'm so upset for the little piggy ( as is my partner - they are his first pets) and can't help wondering if it something we have done? They are on vet bed and sometimes shredded paper, although mainly in their litter tray. They eat plenty of high vit c veg and are pretty active. Have attached some pics for you to see.

 

[Suzygpr]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

The pics of your piggies foot is not typical of bumblefoot at all. The swelling of the toes, blackening of the nails, and general look of the foot does not point to bumblefoot but strikes me as infection, and a severe one at that.

Loss of circulation due to cold can be a danger - I have had pigs in with frostbite damage to their ears so not to be dismissed as a possible cause.

Pic of bumblefoot for comparison.
http://www.guinealynx.info/pododermatitis.html

HTH

Suzy x

 

[helen105281]

Does not look like bumblefoot to me either, we are looking after a poorly piggy at the moment for someone who has bumblefoot on all four feet and it looks very different.

 

[wannabepiggymum]

i will have to get more updated pictures today, where the skin has started peeling and it has blistered. I'm not 100% sold on the idea that it is bumblefoot, due to the fact that the nails fell out. Plus I noticed that very first day his ears were a very dark purple colour. I really don't understand how it could be frost bite, my piggies are in hutches in the shed and as I said before they are on vet bed and have heat pads in the evenings. I really have no clue how this has happened to him, guinness lives with him and has no symptoms?

 

[primrose]

I'm no expert at all, but could it be the case that this is some sort of side effect of the griseofulvin? It would seem unlikely to me, at this time of year, that he would have had such a bad case of frostbite that it would have rendered him unresponsive...although I guess not impossible, if his system was already weakened and there was a sudden drop in temperature at night? Has it been extremely cold where you are? Those necrotic toes look nasty. I really hope that he gets better soon. x>>

 

[bsjlmb]

this was the feet of a pig i took in that had bumble foot. it looks very different to your pigs feet. bathing them in epson salt and using the treatment from gorgeous guiness cleared it up in no time at all.http://

 

[Pebble]

I agree with Suzy - that's definitely not bumblefoot.

Your piggie was admitted with severe hypothermia and my guess is he was put on a heatpad that was possibly too warm for his cold paws when he had such a low body temperature and he was too lethargic to move. He now has the equivalent of frostbite and/or chillblains as a result.

Given the pictures of his paws, It is imperative he receives antibiotic treatment by the vet tomorrow without fail to ensure he doesn;t get an infection although I have to say it does look like one is possibly already starting...and it may be that oral baytril will not be sufficient. I would be discussing with my vet the possibility of chloramphenicol injections in order to provide antibacterial activity against clostridial species as well as the more common staph/strep causes of classic podadermatitis .

As to what caused the hypothermia in the first place - it may be the start of a URI or he has an underlying heart or liver condition that may or may not have been exacerbated by the griseofulvin. The massive temperature changes between day and night at the moment will not help him - if you haven;t already done so, can you bring him indoors whilst he recovers?

Keeping everything crossed for your little man
x

 

[Pebble]

i will have to get more updated pictures today, where the skin has started peeling and it has blistered. I'm not 100% sold on the idea that it is bumblefoot, due to the fact that the nails fell out. Plus I noticed that very first day his ears were a very dark purple colour. I really don't understand how it could be frost bite, my piggies are in hutches in the shed and as I said before they are on vet bed and have heat pads in the evenings. I really have no clue how this has happened to him, guinness lives with him and has no symptoms?

Hi

Just to clarify my last post and answer your points - frostbite is a bit of a misnomer - it is essentially a lack of circulation to the extremities and resulting effects including blackening/infection because the tissues are not kept properly oxygenated by a fresh supply of blood. In healthy individuals, it is normally only seen when the core body temperature drops and blood is diverted away from the extremeties to the major organs to keep them functioning. This is a key feature of hypothermia hence why it is called "frostbite" However in humans there are various other conditions that interfere with the circulation including diabetes, heart issues and neuropathy (eg Raynaud's phenomenon) and can, if left untreated, produce the same symptoms. Restoring the circulation too quickly to extremeties that are "starved" can cause complications (chillbalins being a very mild example when you get into a hot bath with cold feet)

The dark purple colour to his ears is indicative of a circulatory problem - heart would be my first guess - hence why Guinness may not have developed the same symptoms.

x

 

[ellie_jo3213]

Due to the extremities being affected ie toes and ears, i agree with pebble about it being a circulatory problem.

What do the ears look like now? Is it just the front feet affected or are the hind feet also affected? Are the toes cold to the touch? Has the purple/black bits of affected skin got bigger? Is it spreading?

My feeling is that when your pig had hypothermia for some unknown reason, the body shuts down blood supply to the extremities and diverts it to the internal organs to preserve their function. This has then left the toes /ears without an adequate blood suppy. Without oxygen the cells die and become necrotic.

Or something has blocked the blood suppy to the capillary beds, such as blood clots ( thrombi).

 

[ellie_jo3213]

Due to the extremities being affected ie toes and ears, i agree with pebble about it being a circulatory problem.

What do the ears look like now? Is it just the front feet affected or are the hind feet also affected? Are the toes cold to the touch? Has the purple/black bits of affected skin got bigger? Is it spreading?

My feeling is that when your pig had hypothermia for some unknown reason, the body shuts down blood supply to the extremities and diverts it to the internal organs to preserve their function. This has then left the toes /ears without an adequate blood suppy. Without oxygen the cells die and become necrotic.

Or something has blocked the blood suppy to the capillary beds, such as blood clots ( thrombi).

Ah pebble has already said all this. That'll teach me for not reading all the posts through before posting!

 

[wannabepiggymum]

The ears have returned to a nice pink colour. Just the two front feet, the right more so than the left. The foot is warm to touch, but it has swollen much more than it was before. See the attached pic. They are now very crusty and peeling.
What should I be doing for a piggy with a heart condition?

 

[Pebble]

First I would be looking to get antibiotics as the front paw looks as though it is developing an infection.

Here is some useful info on heart conditions/meds in piggies
http://www.guinealynx.info/heart.html

First time i had a suspected heart pig i printed the info out and took it to my vet.

Although circulatroy porblems have occurred - it may no be heart disease per se - something else may have caused the circulation to shut down so you vet will probably want to be sure there is a diagnosable heart condition before prescribing any meds.

HTH
x

 

[wannabepiggymum]

he is currently on .4mls of baytril a day and .25mls of metacam per day. Do you think he should be on different antibiotics?
The nurse I work with has emailed romain pizzi the exotics specialist with lots of info and pics, hopefully he will have a suggestion! i will keep you updated

 

[Pebble]

he is currently on .4mls of baytril a day and .25mls of metacam per day. Do you think he should be on different antibiotics?
The nurse I work with has emailed romain pizzi the exotics specialist with lots of info and pics, hopefully he will have a suggestion! i will keep you updated

My concern is that oral baytril may not be the best choice to deal effectively with the types of "obligate anaerobe"bugs that cause infections in limbs following reduced circulation (eg Clostridia - gas gangrene). In humans they would give penicillin but this is a no-no for guinea pigs hence why I suggested chloramphenicol, which according to the Small Animal Fromulary, they can be given.

Let's see what Romain has to say - great idea to email him and I hope he replies swiftly.

Can you please confirm (a) the current weight of your piggie (b) whether the metacam is dog or cat metacam as the strength/dosages are different and (c) whether he is now indoors

x

 

[wannabepiggymum]

He currently weighs 400g, he was 30g heavier this time last week and has been given cat metacam 0.5mg/ml. He is being housed indoors on towel and fleece.

I will ask the vet re: chloramphenicol.