Newbie with a dominant female boss pig - what else would you suggest?

[PlantGeekOhio]

I’ve spent HOURS reading these forums - thank you to everyone for sharing stories and pics! I’d like to share our story and ask for additional suggestions from this awesome group.
Our family adopted two piggies from another owner:
-Graham Cracker, 2.5 year old female and very very very clearly the boss
-Marshmallow, 1.5 year old female who is uber passive

The ladies moved in with us and into a Midwest rabbit cage (47” x 24”). After two weeks of not seeing Marshmallow much (hiding under the loft area) I took out the loft and put in a grass hut and a cozy cup. With Marshmallow more visible it became clear that she was being bossed around all the time by Graham Cracker. Literally GC would run from one end of cage to the other if she heard Marshmallow eating hay and chase her away.

So i read a ton about sow behaviour here on the boards and reached back out to the lady we adopted them from. Turns out The lady had a herd of 4 sows. Graham Cracker was the boss pig and Marshmallow was the most laid back passive one. That mix of personality was definitely not working in the cage.

First step was I added two of everything and made sure all hideys had 2 entance/exits. That helped but I still felt like Marshmallow couldn’t rest in peace.

I decided to do an experiment to see if cage size would help. I setup a 3x4 grid play pen on the floor, with 2 feeding stations, 2 piles of hay, a fleece forest, and several hideys. The situation improved immediate! The pigs loved running and exploring and within 30 minutes were peacefully eating from same hay pile (never would have happened previously!).

Since that experiment proved successful I decided a whole new cage was needed. I finished a 2x6 cage with multiples of everything as well as some fun tunnels. Life in piggy land is much more harmonious.

Graham Cracker rubs her bum on everything and has been rumble strutting several times a day. Marshmallow seems to have more confidence in that she no longer squeaks bloody murder if Graham Cracker even looks at her and I see her hold her ground more and so Graham Cracker backs down and walks away.

That being said Graham Cracker will still nudge Marshmallow away from water bottles and food bowls and out of hidey houses. They don’t sleep together and generally keep their distance from each other.

Now that we know a larger cage is best I’m also wondering if it would help the dynamic my adding another pig to the mix? What are your thoughts/experiences with that? I know we’d need to pig date the addition and even with that quarantine etc. I’m just curious more about herd dynamics and if it would be good to add another mellow pig to the mix? And also any other suggestions to help this pair function better?

 

[Wiebke]

I’ve spent HOURS reading these forums - thank you to everyone for sharing stories and pics! I’d like to share our story and ask for additional suggestions from this awesome group.
Our family adopted two piggies from another owner:
-Graham Cracker, 2.5 year old female and very very very clearly the boss
-Marshmallow, 1.5 year old female who is uber passive

The ladies moved in with us and into a Midwest rabbit cage (47” x 24”). After two weeks of not seeing Marshmallow much (hiding under the loft area) I took out the loft and put in a grass hut and a cozy cup. With Marshmallow more visible it became clear that she was being bossed around all the time by Graham Cracker. Literally GC would run from one end of cage to the other if she heard Marshmallow eating hay and chase her away.

So i read a ton about sow behaviour here on the boards and reached back out to the lady we adopted them from. Turns out The lady had a herd of 4 sows. Graham Cracker was the boss pig and Marshmallow was the most laid back passive one. That mix of personality was definitely not working in the cage.

First step was I added two of everything and made sure all hideys had 2 entance/exits. That helped but I still felt like Marshmallow couldn’t rest in peace.

I decided to do an experiment to see if cage size would help. I setup a 3x4 grid play pen on the floor, with 2 feeding stations, 2 piles of hay, a fleece forest, and several hideys. The situation improved immediate! The pigs loved running and exploring and within 30 minutes were peacefully eating from same hay pile (never would have happened previously!).

Since that experiment proved successful I decided a whole new cage was needed. I finished a 2x6 cage with multiples of everything as well as some fun tunnels. Life in piggy land is much more harmonious.

Graham Cracker rubs her bum on everything and has been rumble strutting several times a day. Marshmallow seems to have more confidence in that she no longer squeaks bloody murder if Graham Cracker even looks at her and I see her hold her ground more and so Graham Cracker backs down and walks away.

That being said Graham Cracker will still nudge Marshmallow away from water bottles and food bowls and out of hidey houses. They don’t sleep together and generally keep their distance from each other.

Now that we know a larger cage is best I’m also wondering if it would help the dynamic my adding another pig to the mix? What are your thoughts/experiences with that? I know we’d need to pig date the addition and even with that quarantine etc. I’m just curious more about herd dynamics and if it would be good to add another mellow pig to the mix? And also any other suggestions to help this pair function better?

Hi!

I doubt that your two girls will ever be best buddies; but it is unfortunately a wide-spread and constantly reinforced misconception that all piggies are snuggly - most of them aren't and prefer their own space, in fact! They rather live alongside, with some of them having closer relationships/friendhips than others. Piggies are a lot like humans in that respect. It doesn't mean that they are not bonded or aren't friends, though.
If you want to introduce more piggies, please rather consider going back to a quartet because then you get small group dynamics, which you do not get with a trio.

A neutered boar will also not be able to 'heal' a dysfunctional sow pair. He will be forced to side with one of the sows and not balance them out, so you are bound to end up with still an outsider headache - and that is provided your dominant girl will accept a boar! I have made that experience a few times.

In my experience with very dominant sows, introducing a couple of sub-adults that cannot challenge the dominant top sow's position and increase her status again are the most surefire option. It would also be good if they could not challenge your undersow and boost her own confidence. You have a much better chance in avoiding more outsider problems and you have got the space for a quartet. If you have a very dominant piggy, you need to always build up a group around her, but they are usually happier if they can boss around several piggies!
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

There is sadly no recommended guinea pig rescue listed for your state where you could date your two sows with a bonded young pair of sows.
I doubt that you will be able to get to one of the other listed rescues? Guinea Lynx :: US Guinea Pig Rescue and Shelter Organizations

 

[PlantGeekOhio]

Wiebke-
I had read on the forums that a husboar would be a disaster so I knew that wasn’t an option. I hadn’t thought about introducing a pair of younger girls! Ideally that pair needs to be fully bonded correct? So that would mean a young pair at about 8 months to a year old? Also from reading the guide it sounds like a bonded sow-husboar pair could work?

The closest rescue is about a 3 hour drive away, doable but I think it makes for a stressful day on the piggies no? I also found and joined a FB pig group for central Ohio so its possible to find someone locally who would be looking to rehome a pair and willing to pig date.

Does timing matter, as in would it be best to find another pair soon or ok to wait a 2-3 months? My husband sorta freaked out when I mentioned bringing another pair on board. Haha. He’ll get over it in time hence asking about waiting for a few months.

Thanks for the insight, suggestions, and links!

Ps. Also a typo in my original post. Graham Cracker was the boss pig of a herd of 5. I’m assuming that doesn’t change your recommendation of introducing a pair to introducing a trio?

 

[Wiebke]

Wiebke-
I had read on the forums that a husboar would be a disaster so I knew that wasn’t an option. I hadn’t thought about introducing a pair of younger girls! Ideally that pair needs to be fully bonded correct? So that would mean a young pair at about 8 months to a year old? Also from reading the guide it sounds like a bonded sow-husboar pair could work?

The closest rescue is about a 3 hour drive away, doable but I think it makes for a stressful day on the piggies no? I also found and joined a FB pig group for central Ohio so its possible to find someone locally who would be looking to rehome a pair and willing to pig date.

Does timing matter, as in would it be best to find another pair soon or ok to wait a 2-3 months? My husband sorta freaked out when I mentioned bringing another pair on board. Haha. He’ll get over it in time hence asking about waiting for a few months.

Thanks for the insight, suggestions, and links!

Ps. Also a typo in my original post. Graham Cracker was the boss pig of a herd of 5. I’m assuming that doesn’t change your recommendation of introducing a pair to introducing a trio?

I would recommend to concentrate on baby girls until about 4-6 months old max; if they are bonded or from the same group, it is easier. With sows, it is much easier to go from two to four. Sub-teenagers (4 months max) would be ideal as they are desperate to belong.

If you are considering a 'husboar', I would recommend not to go for an already bonded pair unless you can date because generally his lady love won't like to step down as the first lady - in view of your dominance issues.
In this case, it would be easier with introducing a single unbonded husboar and a single young sow; they can can be introduced at the same time. From my own bonding experiences, I would opt for girls as the easier bonding option.
Very dominant sows who are running their group with an iron paw are often not keen on a potential rivalry from a husboar.

I have adopted piggies from several rescues a three hour journey from me in the UK, often by train, but I have only travelled nearly two hours each way with a change of trains for rescue dating once when I needed to find a new husboar for a group of mine fairly urgently and took the top three girls with me. I have however travelled over 6 hours each way with piggies of mine that were on regular medication on a holiday when my normal carer was not able to look after them and the replacement not confident with medicating.
PS: I have travelled over or around 3 hours on the train with piggies from 7 weeks to 9 years of age.
Travelling with guinea pigs

How soon you want to expand is up to you. And it doesn't matter how big exactly the previous group was; they are both small groups. Dynamics change again once you get to 6-8 piggies.

I hope that that helps you?

 

[PlantGeekOhio]

Wiebke-
Great info! I’ll stop by the local animal shelter and ask about pig dating and to get on a list should any young girls come in. I’ll also reach out to the one rescue group that was a few hours drive.

In the meantime we’re building a stand for the cage and considering a2x3 basement addition, which could also be used as a separate cage should we need one in the event of a fight or quarantine of some new friends.

I’m thinking Graham Cracker might be in season as she’s rumble strutting often and tried to mount Marshmallow a few times this evening. I’ll continue to keep an eye on them and update on how it’s going. I can’t thank you enough for the advice!

 

[ronald305]

I just got Bree last Monday she is separated from Katie until the vet sees her she is around 5 months and Katie is around
5 yrs not age wise but when I got her, not sure if it is a good thing but they can see each other and wants to visit each other their noses touch once in a while is that a good, I hope they get along my Late Sally and Katie got a long they were a year apart I was told by the vet to place both of them in the bath tub where it is neutral any suggestion thank you