Not Cystitis or Bladder Stones?

[liquidmelancholy]

I am having real problems with my pig Hazel, nothing seems to be working with her! Since about April, she has been on and off squeaking when weeing (and more recently when pooping.) Also lifting her bottom up, and just seeming uncomfortable. All the signs of cystitis I thought, and so did the vets, so she was put on her first lot of Baytril in April when this started. Annoyingly, she got diarrhoea on it, so we swapped to Septrin, and she's been on this since then.

This just hasn't been working, and in the last 2 weeks or so she's been getting really noisy when weeing, so I took her in for an x-ray. The x-ray came back clear for bladder stones, and then the vet did an ultrasound (or ultrascan not sure), to check for any possible beginning of crystilisation. Came back clear again. Took a urine sample in Monday, not sure when i'll hear about that. But she's been on Septrin (0.7ml twice a day) for nearly the 2weeks it was prescribed for, and she's still really bad, so i doubt the urine sample will show an infection, because wouldn't the Septrin have at least improved her symptoms a little?

Just hoping people can give me any thoughts about what may be the problem with Hazel! I've run out of ideas and it's really upsetting seeing her in pain

 

[Claire W]

I am sorry to hear about your distress and Hazels pain I have a pig who last year we think had a stubborn infection although it was never proven. An x ray ruled out bladder stones and sludge although she did have traces of blood in her urine. She was on Septrin for a long 4 weeks until any infection cleared up.

You could try syringing Hazel unsweetened cranberry juice. As much as she will take. The Ocean spray light is a popular choice. You could also try syringing her water to flush the bladder out.

 

[Wiebke]

There is something like interstitial cystitis - a chronic or recurring cystitis which does not react to antibiotics.
http://www.guinealynx.info/records/viewtopic.php?t=21

What kind of bedding is Hazel on? Cleaners, washing liquids etc. can be the cause of a cystitis.

I have a piggy with chronic/recurrent cystitis problems and have just started her on a course of cystease, a bladder lining supplement for cats that is inceasingly used for guinea pigs with IC or bladder stones. She's had it for about four weeks and she hasn't had any acute signs in the meantime, so I am cautiously optimistic.

I have also been giving her metacam, a painkiller/anti-inflammatory that has helped more than the septrin. Alternatively, your vet could prescribe rimadyl, but my own vet won't.

I am still giving her unsweetened cranberry juice daily.

 

[liquidmelancholy]

Thanks for your replies! Claire - 4 weeks to clear an infection, that is a long time! Actually, Hazel probably has been having antibiotics since April so that also sounds like an amazing amount of time! But possibly because the most time she's been on a course of Septrin in one go is 2 weeks, perhaps she needs a longer spell? I'm not sure if my vet would prescribe a month's lot though, well they haven't before anyway.

I've been struggling to find unsweetened cranberry juice however, I did find the light ocean spray one, but it still says it has sugar and sweetener in? I've also foud Hazel a very unwilling patient with syringing!

Wiebke - the pigs are on newspaper, paper bedding, another layer of newspaper and then paper bedding on top of that, as well as hay that starts in one corner and they end throwing it all over their house! It seems pretty absorbant etc, and I use 'Keep It Clean' spray, but they don't come into contact with it as the layers of bedding are pretty thick.

Hazel had a Metacam injection 2 weeks ago, I didn't know you could get other forms of it to give at home.. is that in liquid form?

**I also forgot to mention that since she started this course of Septrin she has been drinking A LOT more than usual, both of them don't normally drink much at all, but Hazel has been at the bottle extremely regularly. Thought diabetes..but that wouldn't cause pain?

 

[Wiebke]

I haven't been able to find any other cranberry juice than Ocean Wave light, which at least only contains the natural sugar of cranberries; there is no totally sugarfree cranberry juice - after all they are fruits!

You can get metacam as a liquid in two strengths, cat or dog. I use the stronger dog one for long term, as the bottle the vet gives me lasts longer. Depending on the variety, you give different doses.

Septrin I never give less than 3-4 weeks, 2 weeks on septrin is too short to clear a tenacious infection.

 

[Claire W]

With Eliza, my vet explained to me that there can still be blood in the urine but is not always visible to the naked eye. He would prescribe me a 7 day course of septrin, but just before the course ran out, he asked me to take a urine sample in so if it did still contain blood, he would prescribe me with another 7 day course and so on. He explained that it was best to continue the treatment until the blood had completely disappeared with out having a break in between if you no what I mean.

Septrin is the best antibiotic for a UTI. One of my pigs, Connie was on baytril for a UTI and it didn't help her at all She only showed an improvement when she was prescribed the septrin.

As for the ocean spray, I strongly suggest using it so long as it is the light version

 

[missy]

I've been struggling to find unsweetened cranberry juice however, I did find the light ocean spray one, but it still says it has sugar and sweetener in?

Hazel had a Metacam injection 2 weeks ago, I didn't know you could get other forms of it to give at home.. is that in liquid form?

Most people use Ocean Spray Light cranberry juice. It's often referred to as unsweetened or sugar-free, however it does contain an artificial sweetener, as you've found. If you really wanted a pure cranberry juice then health food shops sell 100% pure, natural, concentrated juice which needs diluting, however this is incredibly tart so you'd probably find that your piggy really hated it. It's also very expensive and doesn't last long after opening.

Metacam can come in liquid form, to be given either by a drop straight in the mouth or orally via syringe. You'll probably find that your piggy doesn't mind taking this though - it apparently tastes like honey. Many pigs are prescribed Metacam to be administered at home and it comes in either cat strength or dog strength.

Have you tried homemade barley water? It's a natural remedy which can help to ease inflammation. Some people swear by it for treating pigs with bladder issues.

Good luck with finding a treatment which works for little Hazel x

 

[Posiesparkles]

Nothing to add to all the great advice, but hope Hazel gets better soon. Taken my piggie Storm to ther vets today for ultrasound for kidney/cystitis problem - vet not sure yet. I will let you know if I find out anything that could be useful for you.

 

[pelicano]

I have been dealing with (or trying to!) bladder issues in my piggies for 3 and a half years now.

Just a few things to consider:

- Bladder culture test. This might be useful to rule out a bacteria, and find out what bacteria it is/which antibiotic is best. Unfortunately, the piggy needs to be clear of antibiotics before a good, clean sample is sent off to the lab though.

- Cranberry is only useful, as I understand it, for E Coli bacterial infections.

- I have discovered recently that even minute traces of washing up liquid affect my piggies' bladders. They now have all their own equipment, including veggie knife, collander etc, and nothing is washed in washing up liquid. I also wash their cloths and tea towels in soapnut, in case of any irritation from washing powder residues.

 

[liquidmelancholy]

Got the results back from Hazel's urine test, and it did show up something.. bladder crystals! To be honest I'm a bit confused and slightly annoyed. Firstly, we've spent probably over £100 on consultations, antibiotics, x-rays and ultrascans since April, so why on earth didn't they do a urine test (which I would have thought was a logical thing to do upon the first showing of her symptoms to determine what was wrong) before?! And the ultrascan was done (about 2 weeks ago) to see if any crystilisation had started to occur, pre-formation of any stones, so why did the scan not pick this up?!

The only advice I've got is to change her diet (stuff I already knew about cutting out high calcium veg.) But parsley is their absolute favourite, so have no idea how I'm going to manage that. So i'm going to give them just cucumber, celery, pepper, and carrot every day (hope that's all ok?) But would it still be ok to give a very small amount of parsley in addition? The vet also said about giving loads of fruit juice in the hope that it will flush Hazel's bladder out so much that the crystals will come out too! So definitely getting the Ocean Spray Light now! She also said get a Vitamin C supplement, but she didn't say in what form and how to administer it. I tried putting some in their water bottle once, but they didn't like it at all!

So thank you for the extra bits of advice from you all, just need some guidance on what I've been told to do from the vet now please!

 

[liquidmelancholy]

Oh also, pelicano, I notice you're from Witham! I'm just down the road in Kelvedon, so just wondering what vets you go to?

 

[Wiebke]

Got the results back from Hazel's urine test, and it did show up something.. bladder crystals! To be honest I'm a bit confused and slightly annoyed. Firstly, we've spent probably over £100 on consultations, antibiotics, x-rays and ultrascans since April, so why on earth didn't they do a urine test (which I would have thought was a logical thing to do upon the first showing of her symptoms to determine what was wrong) before?! And the ultrascan was done (about 2 weeks ago) to see if any crystilisation had started to occur, pre-formation of any stones, so why did the scan not pick this up?!

The only advice I've got is to change her diet (stuff I already knew about cutting out high calcium veg.) But parsley is their absolute favourite, so have no idea how I'm going to manage that. So i'm going to give them just cucumber, celery, pepper, and carrot every day (hope that's all ok?) But would it still be ok to give a very small amount of parsley in addition? The vet also said about giving loads of fruit juice in the hope that it will flush Hazel's bladder out so much that the crystals will come out too! So definitely getting the Ocean Spray Light now! She also said get a Vitamin C supplement, but she didn't say in what form and how to administer it. I tried putting some in their water bottle once, but they didn't like it at all!

So thank you for the extra bits of advice from you all, just need some guidance on what I've been told to do from the vet now please!

There is quite a bit of vitamin C in cranberry juice. Otherwise, you can either give it directly as a bit of a tablet in their mouth or dissolve a bit of a tablet in a bit of water and syringe that.

A lot of urine actually contains some crystals even in symptom free quinea pigs. It depends on the size and concentration whether they show up on a scan.

I really hope that you can find a way to deal with the cystitis.

 

[pelicano]

Oh also, pelicano, I notice you're from Witham! I'm just down the road in Kelvedon, so just wondering what vets you go to?

I wanted to ask you the same question, when I saw you were from Essex! I'm always on the look out for good small animal vets myself. For a while I had one I really trusted, at Wickford (quite a way to travel, but worth it), but then he left the practice. I'm currently using Companion Care at Chelmsford. I've tried quite a few around the local area, if you want to have a PM conversation about it.

Do you filter the piggy water? As you know, we have really hard water around here. I try to change my water filter every week, which costs a lot, but keeps the calcium down.

 

[liquidmelancholy]

I go to Spring Lodge in Witham, I think my mum has been taking our pets there since I had my first pet aged 6! I hadn't considered going anywhere else.. Although there is really only one vet there that seems specifically good with smaller animals now. Generally I'm happy with them, but annoyed with all the messing about with the tests and money spent, when all that was needed was a urine test!

I hadn't thought about the hard water issue, thanks for mentioning it. I myself don't like drinking tap water, so maybe it's worth getting a water filter for all of us!

I haven't been given any advice on how much juice I should be giving Hazel every day, I've got about 5ml into her, but that doesn't seem very much? And nothing was mentioned about whether I should carry on with the Septrin, but I reckoned that as the problem isn't cystitis but bladder crystals, then she doesn't need it anymore? And I'm still giving a small amount of parsley every day as it's their favourite.. but it is very high in calcium. I really don't know what's right or wrong! They gave me a vit C supplement which I put a pinch of on their fresh food every morning. Who knows if it'll help!