Not quite sure what to make of this...

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boureki

boureki

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I reported a petshop to the RSPCA a while back due rabbits and guins together, tiny spaces etc, and the inspector has just come back to me and said he thought it all looked ok - I asked if they were still keeping them together, he said yes, I said isn't it against the RSPCA's recomendations to house pigs and buns together, he said, nah, think it'll be alright?! I pointed out that on the RSPCA's website their guidelines were against this, he said he would check?! I also mentioned about the damage a pig could unintentionally get from a bun he said as long as they wern't fighting it would be okay, but they would have to be seperated if fighting occured! (Since when would that be an equal fight anyhow?!) His view was that he would rather the pigs and buns live together than alone, so I said yes, the animals need company, but with their own kind, surely? He said he would check the regs on this.

I'm confused....
 
Personally I would get onto them again. If it states on their website that rabbits and guinea pigs shouldnt be housed together then they should do something about it.

Even pets at home have their bunnies and piggies seperate now and they were terrible.

Get onto them again....I would
 
Sounds like he doesn't know what the guidelines are. We have all read them, are the DEFRA guidelines in place now? Or is it for the future? Again this just makes me think where there is money to be made the RSPCA don't really want to know!

Louise
x
 
Louise, what are the DEFRA guidelines, are they meant to back up the RSPCA? I just looked on their website and it says, 'Companionship - to be with other guinea pigs. The widespread practice of keeping guinea pigs and rabbits together is not recommended. '

I'll see if I can find a bit more info and contact them again.
 
Hiya,

I remember reading something on the DEFRA website about the Animal Welfare Act about not keeping buns and pigs together etc etc. I'll see if I can dig it out I'm sure it is in my fav places.

Louise
x
 
Thanks Louise, although I can't find anything pertaining to buns and pigs though :-\

I just called DEFRA to see what their guidelines were regarding this subject, after a huge automated system, I finally got through to a person (in the wrong dept) and they put me through to a very pleasant but clueless lady who had no idea what I was talking about and couldn't find any reference at all for me!

*sigh*
 
It's so frustrating, we know they shouldn't be housed this way and it's dangerous so why more isn't done I'll never know. Are you going to call the RSPCA again?
 
I've just called them. They said the inspectors find it hard to keep up with current legislation and guidelines - fair enough, but if a pet shop is brought to their attention specifically to examine rabbits and pigs togather against their own recommendation, i would have thought that that would be the subject an inspector would gen up on before they visit the site. The operator also said that keeping pigs and buns together in a petshop is different to keeping them together at home?! WHY? When I pointed out that regardless of the fact that even if they are babies damage can still be caused, it also suggests to potential buyers that its acceptable to house them together, he repeatedly asked me to call the main HO number. I'm on hold now.
 
This is hugely frustrating for you...................well done though for persevering. Let us know what happens.

Louise x
 
*sighs*

I wish there was a seperate body for small animals, that knew their stuff, and could get something done :(

Anything thats not cats or dogs seems to go right over the RSPCA's heads >:(

I would just try and talk to someone else, maybe that inspector was a one off? :-\
 
>:( yet another one who does not know his regs and seem to have any knowledge :tickedoff: :tickedoff: :tickedoff:
How many times do i read of this? way too many :( :( :(
Good on you love, and yep follow up O0
 
Well, I got precisely nowhere :( I was kept on hold for ages and when I finally got through, they advised me to wait until the inspector got back to me again (I wasn't aware he was going to contact me again) or write a complaint! I'm not here to whinge about the RSPCA, but I can't believe I have to write to them to get them to clarify their own guidlines. I refuse to give up. If they want me to write, I'm blummin' well going to write. In the meantime, the rabbits are still in with the piggies, people are seeing them thinking thats okay, and the body that are supposed to oversee protection of animals seem mired in their own misinformation. If an RSPCA inspector thinks it's not a problem, how is anyone supposed to help?
 
Maybe if more people complain, the RSPCA will actually have to make some connection between the guidelines they wrote, and the actions that should be taken ::)
 
I'd like to think so, but I think they have so many people working for them, it'll never get recognised I suppose :-\ It's a giant organisation. It's just so frustrating!
 
Well done Julie for sticking with it. I find it so frustrating that people employed to enforce the new legislation don't even know what they are supposed to be enforcing! You are quite right when you say it is giving out the wrong information to the public - joe bloggs sees buns and pigs together so thinks it is OK to do the same at home - can't believe they said it was OK to house the two species together in a pet shop!
 
I think this will be different for pet shop animals- not sure but wouldn't be suprised ::)

The DEFRA law is for people keeping animals as pets, I believe that recommendations regarding pet shops and online sales go to DEFRA next year, there is some stuff being referred to them next year anyways.

This is undesirable I agree but really don't know if its against the law. Some stores have caught on that it will be in their interests to change regardless though.

Our Branch is having local events to try and bring the AWA to people. This has been done in several areas now but involves a lot of volunteers, time, Inspectors and money. The RSPCA are not clued up on each species- just like vets. The Inspectors that leave here are well clued up on guinea pigs though :)

I think you should perhaps phone your branch and put your concerns to them. That would have a closer to home effect :)
 
Not meaning to put you on the spot Karen, but is that an interpretation of it about guidelines don't apply to petshops? I'd be really interested to know why, as has been mentioned, if people go in there thinking it's okay to house together, they'll buy the cute bunny and piggy together and the shop will say nothing :-\

As I said before, I'm not trying to slate the RSPCA, I recognise they are all we have in terms of animal welfare, but it's just so frustrating when they clearly have call centre staff who aren't able to be fully trained. And I was so surprised and confused when the inspector didn't seem to think it was a problem!

So when you say the recommendations regarding pet shops go to DEFRA next year, what does that mean, that DEFRA will be able to say no to keeping them together?
 
The RSPCA send their recommendations to DEFRA. The ones this year were for pet keepers. Not the choice of the RSPCA- its dictated to the them :) They don't agree with a lot of things either :) No thats not about shops it comes in next year I think- you can check, but I'm pretty sure thats the ruling at the moment. Why? Both you and the RSPCA and 1000's more would like to know why. You're right, the other way round would have been better probably ::)

The Inspector was obviously not well versed in buns n pigs like vets aren't, not good I agree but he did say he'd look it up/check it out. Do phone your branch and gently voice your concerns.

I'm not a law person so can't say that DEFRA will/won't be able to say no. I understand that they need recommendations and the RSPCA have given them. Online selling and pet shop selling have been a concern for a while.

Yes its frustrating, I just try and make them work for me, I can see things that could be done better but they won't get done so make the best of it, I everyone needs to support locally and expect nothing.

I know nothing about the call centre thing, I wouldn't even expect them to know about animals, they are there to answer phones and take details, BUT they shouldn't be giving out false info in my opinion. :)
 
well done for reporting the pet shop.... just so annoyed that the RSPCA seem to think its ok when they should know better >:(

Keep going though Julie! O0
 
Karen, thanks for the insight on how DEFRA and RSPCA work, I wasn't aware DEFRA made the rules as it were. I'm just reassured to know that the pet trade will hopefully come under some very close scrutiny. I still believe in voicing my concerns to petshops (politely as always!) and without meaning to sound patronising, I also believe in education for Joe Public. Regarding contacting the local branch of the RSPCA, I spoke to them first and they recommended that I call the national Advice line. We got Dylan from our local branch and have no problem with them whatsoever, I know that many times their hands are tied and have no doubt they do what they can. But it's been a very interesting and informative experience.

Thanks Helen, it sounds like I'm on a crusade, I'm not, I promise, it's just a bit confusing as to where all these lines are. If the RSPCA people are unclear, how are we supposed to know! ::)
 
Exactly, I've yet to meet a guinea savvy Inspector- they are literally Jack of all trades (animals) and master of only their favourite :)

Education is the key, I believe that too and my local branch are still, I hope being educated. I recently met the chief of all the Inspectors in our area (didn't even know we had one- I need educating too and I'm a volunteer!), he straight away admitted to knowing nothing about guineas.

The National Advice line could probably send literature out on the guidelines etc they do have it and the local events are targeting the Act, but they do take time, money and bodies :) Not sure what you asked them? :) I was referring to your concern about the local Inspector not knowing about the AWA guidelines.

If you are an RSPCA member I think you can attend local AGMs and get involved if you want but don't expect great things in no time at all, for years I just attended the yearly AGMs and saw only the Inspectors with animals for me in between those!

The RSPCA don't make any rules, they are there to carry out the as best they can and make recommendations.

The reference in the guidelines is that animals should be housed with or without other species, in a guineas case they are socialable and should be with other guineas not rabbits. They haven't clarified each species and I can't remember whats on the new leaflets. The leaflets are extremely basic but good for the main part.
 
I honestly think the National Advice line are pretty much call centre staff with little training, so I'm not entirely surprised they didn't know when I asked about the rabbits and GPs together. What really frustrated me is that the number the first chap gave me for the Advice Line took me straight back to the menu I had already gone to and then there was no-one available to take the call, so they couldn't even tell me where to get the answers I needed as it all gets caught up in the same automated telephone system.

The thing that is really annoying me is that petshop - when I spoke to them personally, they talked over me and kept saying they were babies, its not a problem etc. Now after the inspector found nothing wrong, they're probably smugly congratulating themselves that they beat the system (for now!) and that is what really gets my goat!
 
They haven't beaten the system, the system probably doesn't say that buns n pigs shouldn't be together ::) They've shot themselves in the foot because they can't see that they've upset a potential customer- not even good business. They should've taken a note of your details, investigated and got back to you- just for good customer relations! Thats what they are, a shop.

I think we can only be patient, it would be much worse if the RSPCA had not changed their thinking (officialy) on this. Our branch has not been rehoming buns n pigs together for years now, long before any changes up top were made, this was felt best for both species- not just guineas. The Inspectors that came through here knew our feelings on it too and there were lots of other branches doing the same thing, not mention lots of other noise being made, collectively it made a difference :)

I don't think animals should be sold in shops full stop, but thats my opinion :)

I don't know what the call centre is for- advice on animals or help with the RSPCA 'workings' I refer people to a significant Branch member, but maybe they refer them on, I don't know.

Sounds like the pet shop truly believed that they were right and don't realise the kick of a rabbit.
 
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