not sure where to go from here..

[lily 74]

I have a guinea pig called biscuit as you may know from previous threads he has had blood in his wee, he has been on baytril not cleared it, metacam, and had an x ray to rule out stones (non showed up of any significance)


Went in today to clean him out and again blood in his wee

if it's not stones and an infection as antibiotics didn't touch it, what else could it be? I'm getting another appointment with the vets but am at wits end to what it can be

 

[Wiebke]

Guinea pigs can have insterstitial cystitis - a cystitis that does not clear and flares up from time to time. Most often, it doesn't resct to antibiotics.

First, has your vet tried him on a month's course of pediatric septrin (which is a better antibiotic for UTI problems? It is not licenced, but widely used by vets treating guinea pigs.
http://www.guinealynx.info/uti.html (Ps: Pediatric septrin is an oral form of the bactrim mentioned).

What is helping my Nerys, who is suffering from chronic cystitis is cystease, a bladder coating food supplement for cats. She has been free of symptoms for well over year since she went on it. I cleared it with my vet first, though, even though it is strictly spoken not a medication.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-and-cat-...0-feline-cystitis-glucosamine-capsules-p-1146

 

[flintstones]

Welcome to my hell - or abundance of money.

Patrick has the same problem, although I can clear the blood from his urine with Septrin or Baytril within a week. If I'm lucky he might have a whole 5 days without squeaking but the pain well urinating will return. He passes blood at least once a month and has had this problem for appropriately 4 months. He has good days and bad days - today's a good day!

Lots of fluids - 40mls a day will flush his bladder out (20mls is a full bladder flush).
Cytease can help to coat the bladder lining.
Get him back on Metacam/Loxicom or rimadyl for inflammation.
Ultrasound could show if his bladder wall is inflamed or even sludge.

I would ask to have a urine analysis done under a microscope - I rarely bet but I would say your pig 'most likely' has crystals in it's blader (also described as sludge). They maybe tiny but they are sore and cut the bladder wall and the urethrae tube on the way out.

Now stones are a build up of Crystals which means just because he's had an Xray doesn't mean he couldn't have formed one in the last month.

The only thing that keeps me getting Xrays and ultrasounds, is a pig I knew he was believed to have 'IC' chronic cystitis which is essentially what we're dealing with, pain management is perhaps the way forward although ABS should be prescribed when blood is present as this will stop secondary infection. He got numerous scans and Xray's nothing found. One night he was in so much pain he was rushed to the e-vet it was found a stone had lodged it's self in his penis. He had emergency surgery but sadly didn't make it so I know how a stone can be missed or form quickly from his story.

I really do feel your pain!

 

[missy]

had an x ray to rule out stones (non showed up of any significance)

Hi Lily,

Sorry to hear that you're struggling with this. It's unfortunately a very common problem and cause of frustration.

I just wondered about no stones showing up "of any significance". Do you mean that the Vet found sludge/crystals but nothing big enough to potentially be a stone? Or did they actually see small stones on the Xray?

 

[lily 74]

Hi Lily,

Sorry to hear that you're struggling with this. It's unfortunately a very common problem and cause of frustration.

I just wondered about no stones showing up "of any significance". Do you mean that the Vet found sludge/crystals but nothing big enough to potentially be a stone? Or did they actually see small stones on the Xray?

Thanks everyone, the vet said they had found very tiny fragments and yes sludge and didn't think it was worth opening him up and taking them out as they were too small and the risk too great with surgery.

You could be right it could be crystals, biscuit has had ths prblem for over a year now and if it was a stone it would have grown much bigger by the x ray so I think it is something else tbh

 

[lily 74]

Guinea pigs can have insterstitial cystitis - a cystitis that does not clear and flares up from time to time. Most often, it doesn't resct to antibiotics.

First, has your vet tried him on a month's course of pediatric septrin (which is a better antibiotic for UTI problems? It is not licenced, but widely used by vets treating guinea pigs.
http://www.guinealynx.info/uti.html (Ps: Pediatric septrin is an oral form of the bactrim mentioned).

What is helping my Nerys, who is suffering from chronic cystitis is cystease, a bladder coating food supplement for cats. She has been free of symptoms for well over year since she went on it. I cleared it with my vet first, though, even though it is strictly spoken not a medication.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/dog-and-cat-...0-feline-cystitis-glucosamine-capsules-p-1146

Can metacam be used with cystease? as someone mentioned using metacam?

also what would the doseage by syringe be again for the cytease? I remember you saying before about it but I have forgotton! sorry:red

 

[flintstones]

Thanks everyone, the vet said they had found very tiny fragments and yes sludge and didn't think it was worth opening him up and taking them out as they were too small and the risk too great with surgery.

You could be right it could be crystals, biscuit has had ths prblem for over a year now and if it was a stone it would have grown much bigger by the x ray so I think it is something else tbh

Everyone kept saying to me did my pig have 'sludge' only last week did I find out sludge is in fact crystals. They are 'Tiny' fragments my vet showed me though the microscope, they cut inside of the bladder and my Patrick urinates them out.

Patrick gets in an awful state - I imagine your boy is similar.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9BlRmjKnE[/ame]

He is always prescribed ABS (Septrin) which he is passing blood as this stops secondary infection and normally eases his symptoms.

I have used metacam and Cytease together - I would however get your vets approval before administering drugs, as you do have to work with the vet and vet has to know the treatment your pigs is on.

Pearl Barley Water is good for soothing the Bladder wall to - Boil the Pearl Barley 30 - 45 mins adding water to stop them drying out. Drain Barley and syringe the liquid to your Guinea Pig.

 

[mikulinek]

Awww, I'm sorry to hear about your poor Biscuit's health problems. Incidentally, one of our boars, also called Biscuit, had a similar issue. He didn't have crystalisation yet and so anti-biotics were able to clear up the infection caused by the damage to the bladder.

With "sludge", the condition I think is a bit further along and will continue to cause damage to the bladder as with poor Patrick (sorry to hear about his poor state Flintstones ) and then the piggy is susceptible to infection.

I don't know what your vet has advised but it might be worth considering a procedure to give Biscuit time to recover from the damage and/or additional infection and space for the bladder to heal. Other than that, it may be a case of him having to pass this sludge slowly and painfully himself. Our Biscuit eventually passed the initial formation so is ok.

In the long-term, the build-up could be being caused by calcium or vitamin A. How is Biscuit's diet?

Finally, as suggested, plenty of fluids for poor Biscuit will be needed and I have read that dilluted cranberry juice can help stave off infection/inflammation in the bladder. It won't clear up infection but it can help keep it away (I'm not sure if it's actually true though).

Best of luck and healing vibes from all of us - especially our Biscuit to your Biscuit

 

[lily 74]

Everyone kept saying to me did my pig have 'sludge' only last week did I find out sludge is in fact crystals. They are 'Tiny' fragments my vet showed me though the microscope, they cut inside of the bladder and my Patrick urinates them out.

Patrick gets in an awful state - I imagine your boy is similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK9BlRmjKnE

He is always prescribed ABS (Septrin) which he is passing blood as this stops secondary infection and normally eases his symptoms.

I have used metacam and Cytease together - I would however get your vets approval before administering drugs, as you do have to work with the vet and vet has to know the treatment your pigs is on.

Pearl Barley Water is good for soothing the Bladder wall to - Boil the Pearl Barley 30 - 45 mins adding water to stop them drying out. Drain Barley and syringe the liquid to your Guinea Pig.

Yes that sounds exactly how he described it, so yes it must be what biscuit has. Biscuit's appetite is great, but his red eyes go pale when he is having a bad day and the next day his eyes are darker red again which is odd?

I think I'm going to go to a cavy savvy vet in horsham as my vet isn't that open to trying different things when I have asked before. In the meantime I'm going to try the pearl barley and cranberry juice as non medical treatment

 

[lily 74]

Awww, I'm sorry to hear about your poor Biscuit's health problems. Incidentally, one of our boars, also called Biscuit, had a similar issue. He didn't have crystalisation yet and so anti-biotics were able to clear up the infection caused by the damage to the bladder.

With "sludge", the condition I think is a bit further along and will continue to cause damage to the bladder as with poor Patrick (sorry to hear about his poor state Flintstones ) and then the piggy is susceptible to infection.

I don't know what your vet has advised but it might be worth considering a procedure to give Biscuit time to recover from the damage and/or additional infection and space for the bladder to heal. Other than that, it may be a case of him having to pass this sludge slowly and painfully himself. Our Biscuit eventually passed the initial formation so is ok.

In the long-term, the build-up could be being caused by calcium or vitamin A. How is Biscuit's diet?

Finally, as suggested, plenty of fluids for poor Biscuit will be needed and I have read that dilluted cranberry juice can help stave off infection/inflammation in the bladder. It won't clear up infection but it can help keep it away (I'm not sure if it's actually true though).

Best of luck and healing vibes from all of us - especially our Biscuit to your Biscuit

Another biscuit has the same thing

Biscuit is fed hay, some pellets and a mixture of different veg and fruit that I vary daily, mostly he has spring greens, some carrots, bell peppers , sweetcorn etc

 

[mikulinek]

That doesn't seem to be a diet containing anything untoward. I would definitely agree with your decision to see another vet. You don't want to be just managing the situation but looking for a way to improve it as you are so good luck with the other vet

 

[lily 74]

That doesn't seem to be a diet containing anything untoward. I would definitely agree with your decision to see another vet. You don't want to be just managing the situation but looking for a way to improve it as you are so good luck with the other vet

Thanks

I got biscuit when he was around 2 years old so not sure of his previous diet, he started showing the symptoms when I first got him so coud ae been something he was fed before maybe

 

[flintstones]

That doesn't seem to be a diet containing anything untoward. I would definitely agree with your decision to see another vet. You don't want to be just managing the situation but looking for a way to improve it as you are so good luck with the other vet

The issue is there doesn't seem to be anyway to move on from the condition believe me I have tried we've seen more than one Cavy Savy vet, I don't often accept pain management is the way forward.

Other than going in to flush the bladder, having known another pig to have it's bladder flushed for the symptoms to return only 3 days later. I can't justify putting Patrick through a GA for such short pain relief.

Another option is for a urine sample to be taken directly from the bladder wall and cultured at the lab to find out if an infection is present and what strain. Most cases of 'IC' an infection generally isn't present, I haven't opted for this procedure as I'm fairly certain with the amount of 'ABS' Patrick has had any infection should have been cleared by now of course there is always the possibility the infection has developed immunity.

We do seem to be managing the symptoms better now granted 'every day' is not a good day but well Patrick maintains his healthy appetite and appears happy I will not be opting for surgery or invasive treatment. Patrick is getting on in life approx 5. I want him to enjoy the rest of his life of course if it gets to the point where it is damaging his quality of life I will have to re-think my decision!

Hopefully you can find a solution for Biscuit perhaps he's not as far gone as Patrick - if anything you are able to manage the condition and make his life as pain free as possible then that's a result unfortunately we can't cure everything and sometimes the best we can do is manage a condition!

Try filtering his water and limit his pellets to a small handful daily. His diet should consist of mainly hay that should help some.

Good Luck x

 

[lily 74]

The issue is there doesn't seem to be anyway to move on from the condition believe me I have tried we've seen more than one Cavy Savy vet, I don't often accept pain management is the way forward.

Other than going in to flush the bladder, having known another pig to have it's bladder flushed for the symptoms to return only 3 days later. I can't justify putting Patrick through a GA for such short pain relief.

Another option is for a urine sample to be taken directly from the bladder wall and cultured at the lab to find out if an infection is present and what strain. Most cases of 'IC' an infection generally isn't present, I haven't opted for this procedure as I'm fairly certain with the amount of 'ABS' Patrick has had any infection should have been cleared by now of course there is always the possibility the infection has developed immunity.

We do seem to be managing the symptoms better now granted 'every day' is not a good day but well Patrick maintains his healthy appetite and appears happy I will not be opting for surgery or invasive treatment. Patrick is getting on in life approx 5. I want him to enjoy the rest of his life of course if it gets to the point where it is damaging his quality of life I will have to re-think my decision!

Hopefully you can find a solution for Biscuit perhaps he's not as far gone as Patrick - if anything you are able to manage the condition and make his life as pain free as possible then that's a result unfortunately we can't cure everything and sometimes the best we can do is manage a condition!

Try filtering his water and limit his pellets to a small handful daily. His diet should consist of mainly hay that should help some.

Good Luck x

Thank you

yes, that is the dilemma, I could spend £100's on vet treatment pumping him full of different drugs etc which I'm not sure will be good for him in the long run

I am going to try 'natural' tonics like barley water and cranberry juice and see how he goes, he doesn't seem in pain and is strong and runs about fine and his appetite is great!

I'll also try the water filtering and see how it all goes, I'm not putting him throgh another x ray atm like the vet suggested, they advised to come back for another one in 8 weeks but they use a GA and I'm not happy about that either.

 

[Posiesparkles]

Not much to add to the excellent advice you have had but wanted to send you virtual hugs - Storm had exactly the same problem. xx

 

[lily 74]

Not much to add to the excellent advice you have had but wanted to send you virtual hugs - Storm had exactly the same problem. xx

thanks

 

[flintstones]

Thank you

yes, that is the dilemma, I could spend £100's on vet treatment pumping him full of different drugs etc which I'm not sure will be good for him in the long run

I am going to try 'natural' tonics like barley water and cranberry juice and see how he goes, he doesn't seem in pain and is strong and runs about fine and his appetite is great!

I'll also try the water filtering and see how it all goes, I'm not putting him throgh another x ray atm like the vet suggested, they advised to come back for another one in 8 weeks but they use a GA and I'm not happy about that either.

Your vet is right to advise regular Scans or Xray's although it is much safer to do without GA. Stones are a build up of Crystals. Patrick is checked regularly for stones via Xray or Scan and it is done without GA as well as pain management. If he had a stone I would opt for Surgery.

x

 

[Abi_nurse]

Try and get your vet to pop your piggie on Septrin, Baytril isnt the best for cystitis. But i agree with everyone elses posts etc.

I hope your pig feels better soon.

x.

 

[lily 74]

Your vet is right to advise regular Scans or Xray's although it is much safer to do without GA. Stones are a build up of Crystals. Patrick is checked regularly for stones via Xray or Scan and it is done without GA as well as pain management. If he had a stone I would opt for Surgery.

x

Yes, I will have another x ray done but need to find a vet locally that is willing to do it without GA as putting him under GA every 8 weeks as they suggested isn't ideal

If the vet had found a stone he was going to operate but said that it was very risky

Hopefully an xray in the future will not show up any stones

 

[missy]

You've had lots of great advice!

Do you know if the Seers Croft Vet in Horsham (which Pebble recommended on your other thread) do conscious xrays? I'd definitely look into her recommendation.

As already mentioned, increased fluids are sooooo important so I was just wondering if Biscuit usually drinks much? Lots of people find that their pigs drink much more from a glass water bottle than they would from a plastic one, so it might be worth switching to glass if not already. Also I just wondered if you'd been syringe-feeding him extra fluids at all, to flush the bladder?

If I were you I'd try a course of Septrin next x

 

[lily 74]

You've had lots of great advice!

Do you know if the Seers Croft Vet in Horsham (which Pebble recommended on your other thread) do conscious xrays? I'd definitely look into her recommendation.

As already mentioned, increased fluids are sooooo important so I was just wondering if Biscuit usually drinks much? Lots of people find that their pigs drink much more from a glass water bottle than they would from a plastic one, so it might be worth switching to glass if not already. Also I just wondered if you'd been syringe-feeding him extra fluids at all, to flush the bladder?

If I were you I'd try a course of Septrin next x

There is a cavy savvy vet in hasitngs a few miles away from me so I'm going to ask there as horsham is quite far for me to travel especially if he has to have follow up visits close together I have to budget for petrol as well if I had to travel also

Biscuit does drink alot which is good, he had a glass bottle but it leaked so I used a spare one I had until I get another one. Yes they do seem to drink more from a glass bottle

I am going to try syringe feeding some watered down cranberry juice for him, and extra water and see if that helps him thanks

 

[missy]

Glad you've found another Vet nearby. The more you know of, the better!

Good luck with it all x