Older ladies!

[skully]

Hi everyone, I’ve come to seek your wisdom again! I’ve really sadly lost two elderly pigs within two months and am now left in a strange situation where I have two single sows and a well-bonded pair. My plan was to bond the two single sows and have two pairs - seemed straightforward. But I suddenly thought this morning - could it possibly work to try them as a group? Am I mad?! But as they get older and losses are more frequent, it might be easier on them if they have more friends and aren’t getting left on their own repeatedly.

The pigs are:
5 year old recently spayed girl - has lived in large herds before, usually lower ranking
5 year old entire girl - just rescued, is absolutely lovely! Has had a friend before, unsure of specifics
And a mother daughter pair - 6 and 5 year old girls, both spayed, usually the mother is mid ranking and the daughter lower ranking although can be stroppy!

I’m worried that I’m going to cause them all stress by trying them together and it not working. I’m also worried about breaking the strong bond between my current pair. But in my mind it would be so lovely for them all to form a little group and have more company in their retirement years.

What would you do? Is it too risky to try? Or worth a shot and might just work out?

Thank you for your help and opinions!

 

[Wiebke]

Hi everyone, I’ve come to seek your wisdom again! I’ve really sadly lost two elderly pigs within two months and am now left in a strange situation where I have two single sows and a well-bonded pair. My plan was to bond the two single sows and have two pairs - seemed straightforward. But I suddenly thought this morning - could it possibly work to try them as a group? Am I mad?! But as they get older and losses are more frequent, it might be easier on them if they have more friends and aren’t getting left on their own repeatedly.

The pigs are:
5 year old recently spayed girl - has lived in large herds before, usually lower ranking
5 year old entire girl - just rescued, is absolutely lovely! Has had a friend before, unsure of specifics
And a mother daughter pair - 6 and 5 year old girls, both spayed, usually the mother is mid ranking and the daughter lower ranking although can be stroppy!

I’m worried that I’m going to cause them all stress by trying them together and it not working. I’m also worried about breaking the strong bond between my current pair. But in my mind it would be so lovely for them all to form a little group and have more company in their retirement years.

What would you do? Is it too risky to try? Or worth a shot and might just work out?

Thank you for your help and opinions!

Hi

All you can do is give it a try and see how it goes. Ideally give them a few days next to each other so they can settle in and meet through the bars. That will take quite some stress out of the equation.
Under-sows from group situations (unless they have been dysfunctional) are usually more accepting of having company again whereas single sows from pairs, and especially when they have been top lady won't be willing to compromise and will prefer to have their own territory but they will still profit from companionship next door.

It would be better to try them all together first. This also gives you some information whether it may be a valid plan B to see whether your two singles may make a pair if the group bonding fails and whether your submissive sow is being accepted by the pair or now. It all depends on the actual dynamics between the individual personalities when they come face to face. You can never predict that.
At the worst, you'll end up with three cages; ideally with one and potentially with 2.

I am currently on my 5th Golden Oldies Group with more submissive sows but I have also ended up with 2, 3 and twice even with 4 bereaved singles, none of which would go with any of the others. Or with any of my other pairs or groups...
You just cannot predict it.

Watch out for fear-aggression and for lack acceptance without outright confrontational behaviours. There is no 'recipe' and each bond is different. Being able to read the often very subtle body language and - if possible - some previous bonding experience will help to know whether things are heading in the right direction or not.
If negative encounters become more and more entrenched during the group establishment phase in the days after the encounter then you

Here is some helpful information:
Our step-by-step bonding guide with attendant good and bad behaviours for each stage:
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...rated-bonding-dynamics-and-behaviours.167042/

These are our behaviour guides:
- The quick one: A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours
- The long one which looks at behaviours and what they mean in different contexts. You may want to read it because it will help you to understand the subtleties of body language better and what they tell you. Guinea pig social interaction is far more complex and comes with lots of nuances. This guide gives you access to not only see the behaviours but to spot and understand those nuances especially of dominance behaviours and fear-aggression in different contexts and in the intensity with which they are expressed: Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context

 

[skully]

Hi Wiebke, thanks for your reply! I will refresh myself on all the guides - this forum has been my bible to guinea pig ownership for the last 6 years! May I just ask you a couple more questions …

Are groups necessarily better, and the pigs happier, than being in well bonded pairs? I don’t want to upset everyone just because I’ve thought it would be a nice idea, when the pigs were actually perfectly happy in the first place!

Regarding bonding - would I place all four in the neutral area at the same time or would it be best to start with specific ones and add them in from there?

Unfortunately the cage with my pair in is on the opposite side of the room to my two singles. They are currently in a 2x10 split with a divider so they have spent a week getting to know each other through the bars already. I don’t think there’s a way that I could put my pair over there too though, so we’d be starting from scratch in the bonding pen.

Thank you again for your help!

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Wiebke, thanks for your reply! I will refresh myself on all the guides - this forum has been my bible to guinea pig ownership for the last 6 years! May I just ask you a couple more questions …

Are groups necessarily better, and the pigs happier, than being in well bonded pairs? I don’t want to upset everyone just because I’ve thought it would be a nice idea, when the pigs were actually perfectly happy in the first place!

Regarding bonding - would I place all four in the neutral area at the same time or would it be best to start with specific ones and add them in from there?

Unfortunately the cage with my pair in is on the opposite side of the room to my two singles. They are currently in a 2x10 split with a divider so they have spent a week getting to know each other through the bars already. I don’t think there’s a way that I could put my pair over there too though, so we’d be starting from scratch in the bonding pen.

Thank you again for your help!

Could you divide your bonding pen for a day or so, so they can all meet each other through the bars and spend the night next to each other? Just so that the initial apprehensions and overexcitement have a change to die down a bit but it is equally new territory for all.

Otherwise you start with the pair and then add the two singles because they are essentially joining an existing group. You usually start with the largest group or the most dominant piggy. I usually put any newbies in at the further corners so they can get their bearings and are not forced face to face with others instantly.

There is no right or wrong answer re. pairs and groups: some piggies will thrive in a group and others are very happy in a pair. You start with all four and then take it from there. At the worst, you end up with a 2-1-1 constellation instead of a quartet, a trio plus single or two pairs. But what you end up with depends on the piggies and cannot be predicted.

I've done lots of tester bondings (or dating sessions if you'd rather); some bondings have worked out, many haven't. But occasionally an unlikely bond has come off and resulted in a wonderful friendship so you can never just go by the book. Piggies are much more complex personalities.

It is always a jump of faith but if anything I would recommend to be flexible, have no preconceptions and to just go with the flow rather than fixate on your ideal option. Let the piggies sort out in which way each of them wants to live and they will be happier that way.