Ongoing URI in new guinea pig

[Moogle]

We made the mistake of buying two sows from a breeder, we had a bonded pair of sows and one died, the other is about 5 and needed a friend, we coundn't find any sows in local rescues, so had to go get these two. One 1 year old, the other 2. The 1 year old started showing signs of an URI pretty much as soon as we got them home, and we realised she was ill. I contacted the breeder who denied any knowledge and sent us baytril. I gave that for 5 days, and it seemed to help, but then the URI came back within 2 days. I started baytril again, and gave two weeks worth. It didn't fully go away, we stopped at two weeks to see what would happen. Within a week she was struggling to breathe, we went to the vet who gave us two different antibiotics and steroids. Instinctively, I thought steroids were a bad idea if she has a bacterial infection. So she's been on the baytril 0.35g twice a day and ronaxan 5mg twice a day since Thursday, Its a nightmare making her take them, she does not want them and we have to force feed her. She is still sounding bad breathing. The other pig we got, just died suddenly without warning two weeks after we got her. I have a video of her eating forage the night before and then she was dead the next morning, no signs of anything. It was heartbreaking.

My current guinea pig doesn't seem to have picked up the URI, but she did get lice from the others, even though the breeder said they were treated. We'd intended to have 3-4 guinea pigs, we have a 3x4 c and c cage plus one extra (like an L shape),but obviously we cant risk it while Ginger has a URI, the vet said it may be ongoing, should we never get another guinea pig then? Is there anything else we can do to help? She is also on probiotics and vitamins with her meds. We put the probiotics in some wheat and oat bran to get extra calories into her, since she came to use very thin (we could feel her spine) and needs to keep her weight up.

Any other ideas to help her recover? We don't want to lose another pig!

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

First, wheat and oat bran is not what she needs. Piggies should not eat grains.
She needs to be syringe fed a proper herbivore recovery feed such as oxbow critical care or emeraid. She needs the fibre to keep her gut functioning.
You also need to switch from the routine weekly weight checks and instead weigh her every morning so you can ensure you are getting enough syringe feed into her - 60ml is the amount you aim for each 24 hour period but you give as much as is needed to keep her weight stable each day.
If you don’t yet have recovery feed into hand, please just their normal piggy pellets with warm water and syringe feed that as an emergency measure until you can get critical care.
Critical care/emeraid is higher fibre than mushed pellets so is the better option where possible.

Please do not give probiotics at the same time as antibiotics. The antibiotics will ruin the effectiveness of the probiotics. Probiotics should be given 1-2 hours before or after a dose of antibiotics.

I’m glad you didn’t give the steroids. Steroids are toxic to rodents and can make respiratory issues much worse.

Ronaxan is doxycycline which is a strong antibiotic which can impact appetite.
Baytril doesn’t taste nice (if you’re a piggy) so it can be difficult to get it into them.

You will need to complete the course of antibiotics as prescribed and see how it goes. It could well take the entire course before you see any improvement. Please do stay in touch with your vet and take her back in if she worsens at all.

Have the lice been treated with prescribed treatment?
Lice in weakened piggies can sadly be fatal.

I have added a lot of guides below which explain everything more fully and which have all the practical little how-to tips. I hope she is ok

- Weight monitoring and management
- Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
- All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
- How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

- First Aid: Immediate Care Measures and Non-medication Products
- The Problems With Steroids And Why They Shouldn't Be Used.

- A guide explaining lice along with the full disinfection measures: New Guinea Pig Problems: Sexing & Pregnancy; URI, Ringworm & Parasites; Vet Checks & Customer Rights

 

[Moogle]

Thanks so much for your reply. I cannot get her to eat critical care, which I was trying for two weeks. The stress for her of trying to make her eat it alongside trying to syrgine feed her meds, was far too much for her, she fought us constantly. The bran I saw advised in a few places, in order to get weight on sick piggies, is it bad for them? She gets maybe 1-2tsp. She does at least like it and I sprinkle the probiotics over it, (at least half an hour to an hour before meds). Luckily, her weight has been pretty stable this week due to the combination of hand feeding her favourite foods and the bran. I keep a chart of both piggies weights so I can see any huge drops.

I am currently waiting on the treatment which I have ordered, I only saw the lice today, but I knew something was up as they had symptoms of lice or mites, (scratching, shivering, biting etc) so I'd ordered it on Saturday, then saw lice today. There isn't a great amount of hair loss, so I'm hoping it's not too bad an infestation. But I will be treating them as soon as the meds arrive. And hopefully that will go well.

Should I be concerned that the vet would prescribe something that they absolutely should not do? I'm just glad I already understood that steroids were bad even before checking, in a human, steroids with infection is not great anyway. They aren't a specialist vet, but there are no specialist vets near me. So I'd need to travel pretty far, and I don't drive. But prescribing steroids seems a big red flag then! The Ronaxan is a tablet which I need to break into 4 for 4 doses and then somehow get Ginger to eat. We tried a few methods and have now resorted to mixing up the full tablet (ground) with 4 doses of the baytril, and giving out doses from that mixture. I hope that's a good method? Because we are desperate to get little Ginger healthy. But the longer it goes on, the less likely that seems.

 

[Piggies&buns]

A small amount of bran can be given but it cannot replace critical care/emeraid as the main fibre source where hay intake is not sufficient.
Where hay intake is reduced then you do need to syringe feed a recovery feed to replace the hay fibre to ensure good gut function.

What lice treatment have you got? Was it vet prescribed?
Be aware where low doses pet shop products are not considered good enough.
Lice treatment needs to be done as part of the correct course and dosed for their weight.
You will also need to disinfect and we recommend using F10 for that (it’s a vet grade disinfectant).

I don’t have experience of using ronaxan tablets so I can’t comment on whether your method is appropriate.

 

[Moogle]

Hi, I got Amazon.co.uk. I actually bought Naqua Mite Treatment Ivermectin Drops 1% Spot On Anti Parasite (Rabbit but it hasn't arrived so I bought the amazon one too. Not vet prescribed. Will this be sufficient? The one from haypigs looked better but I ordered it Saturday and it still isnt here.

sorry above is actually me, I'd logged in my phone, couldn't remember log in details on my laptop and then created a new account but replied on my phone logged into the original account. So yeah, that's the treatment I bought.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’ve not used the naqua one myself but I do know it has been used by one or two other members.
With xeno being so hard to find you’ve got to do what you can!

I will get your duplicate account closed

 

[BossHogg]

I've merged your 2 posts and I'll delete the duplicate account.

 

[Moogle]

thank you so much!

I've merged your 2 posts and I'll delete the duplicate account.

 

[Moogle]

UPDATE: After almost two weeks on the antibiotics, my little ginger is still struggling to breathe. She had a few days where she seemed better but then got worse again, She ended up with a fungal infection on her ear (possibly ring worm?) which we treated, I've treated the lice successfully, one more dose next week needed. But in the last 7 days ginger has lost 50g, now she is back to being under 800g,I have been feeding her up, she is happily eating her pellets, and eating her veg and some hay. But her poos are tiny and tear drop shaped and her breathing sounds like a low snuffle, sometimes a honk. But we haven't stopped the antibiotics yet. How can she be getting worse on antibiotics? it doesn't make sense. I don't think my vet is experienced enough really, considering they prescribed steroids. But maybe I should try the steroids reduce inflammation? I feel like this is a losing battle I don't want to lose her.

 

[Moogle]

I made a video of her breathing (she is in her floor time enclosure, not her cage)

https://youtube.com/shorts/LpHvQgkxHqI?si=mT5VLIDHruJBg5a1

 

[Piggies&buns]

In terms of feeding her up - are you giving at least 60ml of recovery feed (such as critical care or emeraid) per day? That is what is needed to help maintain weight. She’s losing weight and Her poops are small because she isn’t getting enough fibre.

Her breathing certainly sounds very noisy.
Is she sucking her sides in at all as she is breathing?

 

[Moogle]

In terms of feeding her up - are you giving at least 60ml of recovery feed (such as critical care or emeraid) per day? That is what is needed to help maintain weight. She’s losing weight and Her poops are small because she isn’t getting enough fibre.

Her breathing certainly sounds very noisy.
Is she sucking her sides in at all as she is breathing?

yes she is, she's been doing it for a while now, everytime we've started a course of antibiotics, she'll be better in about 3-4 days, and then get worse after another 3-4 days. This one took 7 days to start improving and then it only last 3 days. We have been trying to get critical care down her, but she hates it and fights us like we are trying to poison her. 60ml seems almost impossible, I've tried mixing it with nice things, like a blueberry or two but it makes no difference. I'll keep trying, I'm worried the stress of force feeding the antibiotics (and I do mean FORCE feeding) and the critical care will overstress her and make her worse.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Please do get her back to the vet tomorrow. Sucking her sides is of concern.

Is there any other vet you can get to?

How much critical care are you getting into her?
The absolute minimum is 40ml but they may not be enough for weight maintenance.

Syringe feeding the critical care is so important - it can literally be a life saving measure.

Please do not do the steroids - they are toxic to piggies. They can worsen respiratory symptoms which can prove fatal.
The guide below explains

The Problems With Steroids And Why They Shouldn't Be Used.

 

[piggieminder]

I have been going through something similar with one of my boars. The antibiotics will be knocking her appetite so you will need to syringe feed her more recovery food, probiotics would also help. Can you find a better vet who knows about guinea pigs, giving her steroids is a big red flag for me that this one isn't very experienced with them. My vets always say they need at least two weeks of ABs for respiratory illnesses and often longer. It could be that she is not on the right antibiotic for the type of infection she has. The boar that I hope has finally recovered has had a month of Baytril and then 2 weeks of Doxycycline and Baytril, to make sure we were on the right path. I also nebulised with F10 antiseptic which is something worth discussing with a piggy savvy vet as it doesn't suit all cases but can sometimes help. I am sorry you ae going through this, sick piggies take us on such a rollercoaster ride.

Recommended Guinea Pig Vets

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe

 

[flowerfairy]

Sorry that you are going through all this. Poor little Ginger.

Hopefully with the right vet she will soon be on the mend.

 

[Moogle]

The last month and a half have been a roller coaster for ginger. We started nebulizer with f10 on 24th June and saw immediate improvements. Almost unbelievable improvements. It literally saved her life. She went from struggling to breathe to fine in 2 days. In a week the uri seemed to be gone. Then we were faced with her weight issues. That's been more of a challenge. She nearly died around 10 days ago when despite everything her weight dropped so drastically to 703g and she was barely hanging on, then she managed to fight back with 4 meals of critical care a day (we had to up it) and she regained up to 816g! She even began eating actual hay and food for several days, which is her problem, she wont eat. Then last Friday she started sneezing then the last two days stopped eating everything, now shes coughing again, losing weight rapidly, and we are desperately trying to force feed her. The vet hasn't got a clue. Shes terribly grumpy in general, and doesn't like to be held. Despite being held daily as she needs to be weighed and fed and loved on.

1. Does this sound like heart issues?
2. Would you keep force feeding her?
3. When does it become unfair to keep forcing her to keep going?
4. Any other ideas? She has eaten nothing voluntarily in three days.

I attached her weight graph.