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Pained Squeaks When Peeing/pooping

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kaja979

kaja979

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi All,
I posted about 6 months ago, this has been a veryyyyy long ongoing problem, to give some background my 18mnth old sow Harriet (1109g beautiful but naughty piggy!) Has been squeaking when she pees, she has been on 0.2ml loxicam once a day, 0.35 septrin twice a day, probiotic, cystease & Oxbow vit C. She appears so get better after a couple of weeks so we stop the loxicom, septrin & antibiotic but continue with the cystease and vit C along with low calcium veg and supreme science pellets. She eats well and is very active (& bossy!) But the squeaks return after a short time and it's back on the cycle! She has had numerous scans/xrays and has shown no stones although an inflamed bladder lining. Her urine is dip tested frequently and shown calcium carbonate crystals and struvite crytals but no stones are detectable (she's had a second and third opinion!)

Anyway, after coming off the antibiotics at the start of Feb, she started squeaking again but I noticed it's when she was pooping, she is eating/weighing consistently but little pained squeaks periodically. She saw a diff vet today as her vet is off sick and they have prescribed septrin 0.36 twice daily, 0.2ml loxicom AND given me 6 pre-loaded syringes of buprecare to be given 0.11ml twice daily. Unfortunately I couldn't take her to her appointment due to work commitments but my OH wrote everyyhing down :) she's never had this before and I'm a bit worried as it seems a large dose of an opiate, I'm not entirely sure how this will fix the problem, rather than mask it, I'm at a bit of a loss now and could do with some/any advice as I'm so worried about her :(
 
So sorry for long post :/ I just wanted to put in as much detail as possible x
 
kaja979 said:
Hi All,
I posted about 6 months ago, this has been a veryyyyy long ongoing problem, to give some background my 18mnth old sow Harriet (1109g beautiful but naughty piggy!) Has been squeaking when she pees, she has been on 0.2ml loxicam once a day, 0.35 septrin twice a day, probiotic, cystease & Oxbow vit C. She appears so get better after a couple of weeks so we stop the loxicom, septrin & antibiotic but continue with the cystease and vit C along with low calcium veg and supreme science pellets. She eats well and is very active (& bossy!) But the squeaks return after a short time and it's back on the cycle! She has had numerous scans/xrays and has shown no stones although an inflamed bladder lining. Her urine is dip tested frequently and shown calcium carbonate crystals and struvite crytals but no stones are detectable (she's had a second and third opinion!)

Anyway, after coming off the antibiotics at the start of Feb, she started squeaking again but I noticed it's when she was pooping, she is eating/weighing consistently but little pained squeaks periodically. She saw a diff vet today as her vet is off sick and they have prescribed septrin 0.36 twice daily, 0.2ml loxicom AND given me 6 pre-loaded syringes of buprecare to be given 0.11ml twice daily. Unfortunately I couldn't take her to her appointment due to work commitments but my OH wrote everyyhing down :) she's never had this before and I'm a bit worried as it seems a large dose of an opiate, I'm not entirely sure how this will fix the problem, rather than mask it, I'm at a bit of a loss now and could do with some/any advice as I'm so worried about her :(
Click to expand...
Oh no! I hope she'll get better soon!
 
This is a bit beyond my expertise so I am going to tag @Abi_nurse

My only thought would be to change her pellets to a more natural and grainless brand, as grains can cause inflammation and fillers etc can irritate the bladder. Let me know if you need any recommendations.
 
helen105281 said:
This is a bit beyond my expertise so I am going to tag @Abi_nurse

My only thought would be to change her pellets to a more natural and grainless brand, as grains can cause inflammation and fillers etc can irritate the bladder. Let me know if you need any recommendations.
Click to expand...
Any ideas on brands/types?
 
Hello there,

Sorry to hear about your piggie bladder issues. I can see a few things here which can be done potentially depending on how far you want to take this. This may well just be interstitial cystitis in which case it may well be a long term management issue. However she has not had her urine cultured for bugs. I would consider this initially. The sample needs to be taken sterile as possible so ideally either a catheter placed or a needle straight into the bladder to take a sample. Septrin is a good antibiotic but by doing a culture of the urine you can find out if she a.does have a urine infection and b.if the septrin will actually work - some bugs are resistant to some antibiotics.

Both the metacam and septrin doses look very low to me. I have two piggies on both of these at the moment and both weigh less than your little one and are on a far sight more. I would perhaps ask the vet about this.

I would consider taking her off the vitamin C tablets as a trial. I had some real issues when I had some given to me free once and half my herd ended up with sore bladders, I know there is a link somewhere between high levels of vitamin c and calcium deposits in the bladder. I really need to get around to looking it up but I have yet done so, but I think it would be worth a try, as if she's getting veggies then she'll have plenty of vitamin c on board.

I hope this helps a little.

As for calcium intake, I really do struggle with this, I need to look more into it personally, But I would steer clear of higher calcium veg such as kale, spinach, parsley and strawberries, and also ensure you are not feeding and alfalfa hay.

x
 
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Ps. The buprenorphine (buprecare) dose is also low so I wouldn't worry about it, she can have nearly double this dose.

And yes, this is really only masking the issue and not getting to the bottom of it sadly. But she needs to be pain free so in the short term a partial opioid can be acceptable. (buprenorphine is only a partial opioid rather than the stronger full ones like morphine or methadone)
 
Abi_nurse said:
Ps. The buprenorphine (buprecare) dose is also low so I wouldn't worry about it, she can have nearly double this dose.

And yes, this is really only masking the issue and not getting to the bottom of it sadly. But she needs to be pain free so in the short term a partial opioid can be acceptable. (buprenorphine is only a partial opioid rather than the stronger full ones like morphine or methadone)
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Thanks SO much for this, she has had her cultures tested (I believe) in about Nov as they were testing to make sure she wasn't resistant to septrin (does that sound right?) I've been following the low calcium diet I read on another thread on here, I will stop the bit C as I agree her diet is probe high enough in it. The vet did actually say she thought it was interstitial cystitis so sounds like your bang on the money there. Thanks for reassuring me with does, will speak to vet tomorrow about possibly upping the doses.

Can I just check, would she need any emeprid?

Thanks
 
helen105281 said:
These are the three I recommend, the first is the best really but they can be fussy when it comes to grainless pellets as they are bigger (I break them into pieces) and take a bit of getting used to.

Bunny GuineaPigDream BASIC | Free P&P on orders £29+ at zooplus!

Vitakraft Emotion Professional Prebiotic Guinea Pig

JR Farm Grainless Complete Guinea Pig | Free P&P £29+ at zooplus!

Does she ever have any readigrass?
Click to expand...
Thanks for this! Will sort it out now! Should all of my pigs have this? Is it ok for poppy her cage mate?
Thanks x
 
Yes it's ok for them all to have. It may take a bit of adjustment though, so phase it in with their other pellets and see if they eat it.
 
No, it can trigger IC symptoms though, so was going to suggest cutting it out if you did.
 
It is possible she has an inflamed bladder which is what my piggy had. You could try monthly Cartrophen injections, we had fairly good success with those & added in Cerenia when she had a crisis & potassium citrate on a daily basis. Also we gave her a very small daily dose of Metacam for the rest of her life. Petal was about 2 when she started having these episodes & had a good quality of life for a further 3 1/2 years with the odd bout of UTIs managed with Metacam & Marbocyl.
 
Poppy'sMum said:
It is possible she has an inflamed bladder which is what my piggy had. You could try monthly Cartrophen injections, we had fairly good success with those & added in Cerenia when she had a crisis & potassium citrate on a daily basis. Also we gave her a very small daily dose of Metacam for the rest of her life. Petal was about 2 when she started having these episodes & had a good quality of life for a further 3 1/2 years with the odd bout of UTIs managed with Metacam & Marbocyl.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this, will ask vet bout it c
 
kaja979 said:
Thanks SO much for this, she has had her cultures tested (I believe) in about Nov as they were testing to make sure she wasn't resistant to septrin (does that sound right?) I've been following the low calcium diet I read on another thread on here, I will stop the bit C as I agree her diet is probe high enough in it. The vet did actually say she thought it was interstitial cystitis so sounds like your bang on the money there. Thanks for reassuring me with does, will speak to vet tomorrow about possibly upping the doses.

Can I just check, would she need any emeprid?

Thanks
Click to expand...

If she's eating and pooing well no need for any gut stimulants. The buprenorphine shouldn't slow guts down too much for concern but they can do sometimes. (Morphine most definately does)

In fact we don't use emiprid be much at all now. Zantac (ranitidine) is a much more effective gut stimulant if it's needed. Emeprid (metoclopramide) works pretty much just on the stomach and Guinea pigs (like rabbits) are hind gut fermenters and use the hind gut for the majority of their digestion, making emeprod not so useful.

x
 
kaja979 said:
Hi All,
I posted about 6 months ago, this has been a veryyyyy long ongoing problem, to give some background my 18mnth old sow Harriet (1109g beautiful but naughty piggy!) Has been squeaking when she pees, she has been on 0.2ml loxicam once a day, 0.35 septrin twice a day, probiotic, cystease & Oxbow vit C. She appears so get better after a couple of weeks so we stop the loxicom, septrin & antibiotic but continue with the cystease and vit C along with low calcium veg and supreme science pellets. She eats well and is very active (& bossy!) But the squeaks return after a short time and it's back on the cycle! She has had numerous scans/xrays and has shown no stones although an inflamed bladder lining. Her urine is dip tested frequently and shown calcium carbonate crystals and struvite crytals but no stones are detectable (she's had a second and third opinion!)

Anyway, after coming off the antibiotics at the start of Feb, she started squeaking again but I noticed it's when she was pooping, she is eating/weighing consistently but little pained squeaks periodically. She saw a diff vet today as her vet is off sick and they have prescribed septrin 0.36 twice daily, 0.2ml loxicom AND given me 6 pre-loaded syringes of buprecare to be given 0.11ml twice daily. Unfortunately I couldn't take her to her appointment due to work commitments but my OH wrote everyyhing down :) she's never had this before and I'm a bit worried as it seems a large dose of an opiate, I'm not entirely sure how this will fix the problem, rather than mask it, I'm at a bit of a loss now and could do with some/any advice as I'm so worried about her :(
Click to expand...

Has any of the vets done a test to see whether she actually reacts/has become resistent to an antibiotic and considered a diagnosis of interstitial cystitis (IC)? It can come with persistent pain squeaking, especially if the bladder walls are inflamed.

Are you filtering the water? You may also want to try barley water; some people sear on it having bladder healing qualities and it doesn't interfere with your other meds. Boil a bit of pearl barley in a little bit of water for 20-40 minutes, the filter and syringe the cooled, gloopy water; if necessary, add more water to get a syringeable consistency. A piggy can have as much as it likes (and it usually goes down very well).
 
Wiebke said:
Has any of the vets done a test to see whether she actually reacts/has become resistent to an antibiotic and considered a diagnosis of interstitial cystitis (IC)? It can come with persistent pain squeaking, especially if the bladder walls are inflamed.

Are you filtering the water? You may also want to try barley water; some people sear on it having bladder healing qualities and it doesn't interfere with your other meds. Boil a bit of pearl barley in a little bit of water for 20-40 minutes, the filter and syringe the cooled, gloopy water; if necessary, add more water to get a syringeable consistency. A piggy can have as much as it likes (and it usually goes down very well).
Click to expand...
Thanks Wiebke! (By the way you're famous I read your stuff all he time in GPM!) All the pigs have been on filtered water since this started she was tested in relation to resistance to antibiotics, they have said they think it's IC but want to keep a regular eye on her in case stones form but she just seems so up and down with it, I'm worried about long term affects of loxicam and septrin.
 
Abi_nurse said:
If she's eating and pooing well no need for any gut stimulants. The buprenorphine shouldn't slow guts down too much for concern but they can do sometimes. (Morphine most definately does)

In fact we don't use emiprid be much at all now. Zantac (ranitidine) is a much more effective gut stimulant if it's needed. Emeprid (metoclopramide) works pretty much just on the stomach and Guinea pigs (like rabbits) are hind gut fermenters and use the hind gut for the majority of their digestion, making emeprod not so useful.

x
Click to expand...
That's great thanks, I will keep and eye on her poops (luckily her cage mate is a diff breed and does tiny poops so I can tell them apart!
 
kaja979 said:
Thanks Wiebke! (By the way you're famous I read your stuff all he time in GPM!) All the pigs have been on filtered water since this started she was tested in relation to resistance to antibiotics, they have said they think it's IC but want to keep a regular eye on her in case stones form but she just seems so up and down with it, I'm worried about long term affects of loxicam and septrin.
Click to expand...

What you could do to help flushing her bladder is to have water syringing sessions once or twice daily. Try to syringe as much water as she will take in one sitting; ideally up to 10-15 ml although that may not be possible. Never give more than half a syringe full at any time and make sure that it has gone done before you give another half a syringe. That will hopefully slow down the build-up of crystals and bacteria in the bladder a bit.

I would also consider switching to a grain-free brand of pellets, like bunny (of which you give 5 pellets a day per piggy); that may help with slowing down the formation of crystals. Bunny GuineaPigDream BASIC | Free P&P on orders £29+ at zooplus!

Unfortunately, the whole complex of stone/crystal formation and what actually causes IC (under which currently all the issues are lumped that do not react to antibiotics and that are not stone-based) is so far hardly researched, so we are still very much at the trial-and-error stage with it. Mostly, it's been error as far as medication is concerned. We are trying to work on removing trigger foods/food groups that can have a negative influence, but it is a slow process. The occurrance of these persistently stubborn symptoms seems to be on the rise on the last years. It is very distressing when there is so little you can you can do for your piggies. :(
 
She loves being syringe fed, she's so funny, I think half the time she fake squeaks so she can get out, get a cuddle and have a syringe of loxi/septrin/cystease! Is it worth keeping on with the cystease?

I've ordered them pellets last night, fingers crossed they help. It does look very much trial and error at this stage I feel like I'm not really helping her which is awful but she's the funniest pig I've ever had, full on diva pig :)
 
:)) They love metacam and banana yum yums (septrin) don't they

Awwww, bless her we had a chronic bladder piggy Putt. She had an inflamed bladder wall. Nothing we could do would help. She stayed on metacam and cystease. At least you know there are no stones involved.

Sending lots of soothing vibes.
 
I would keep her on the Cystease, what dose is she on?
 
That is quite low so there is scope to go higher. See what the vet says. You can work up to at least 125mg. Your dose is about 41mg at the mo.
 
She is on the grain free food, filtered water, cystease, loxixom, septrin and probiotic every day, I'm sringing plenty of water and pearl barley water a few times a day. She's still squeaking and uncomfortable but her weight hasn't changed and she's still lively and well. She's back at the vets next week, we've adjusted doses up nd down over past few months, I'm at a loss what I can do for my little one, would a heat pad ease it? I will try anything x
 
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