pairing not working out too well...

LunaticPoodle

LunaticPoodle

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hello all,
so after Eppu passed away about a month ago, his fresh new baby companion found himself alone. Being a baby, that's not good at all, so I tried to pair him with Baldrick (5 years old skinny, the baby is about 3 months old now), who has always been interested in other piggies but never found anyone he actually got along with, as he's quite dominant and touchy-feely. For a couple of weeks that worked out fine, not as perfect as with Eppu but there was no aggression.
However, that pretty soon changed, as Baldrick did not quite accept the baby doing what babies do, and he got more and more nervous and stressed, constantly trying to get some peace and quiet and rejecting him (constant teeth-chattering whenever baby tried to get close).
The baby got sick of it and nipped him a couple of times, it wasn't a real fight, but Baldrick has no fur so one of the scratches was enough to break skin, and since then he hasn't relaxed at all to the point that I decided to separate them with a grid for a while. (the teeth chattering was incessant, eventually the baby lunged at him like a kung-fu fighter, but missed. I had never seen a guinea pig try to flying-kick another, let alone a baby!).
The baby really looks up to him and wants to interact, so after 2 more weeks of living as neighbours, I tried them again today.

We've been at it since morning and still, all good until baby tries to get close. He follows Baldrick everywhere and is clearly trying to get close enough to lick him, but my grumpy old man won't have it. He won't even go to sleep. I took him out for a few minutes to have a nap in my lap as he usually sleeps a lot with his eyes closed shut, and he hasn't relaxed for a minute all day. He is petrified of a baby and I don't know what to do.

We have looked into taking in other piggies but at this point I am quite sure that Baldrick is happier on his own as the eccentric neighbour. The baby though needs a companion, and the other 2 boys in the house seem to have bonded quite well, so I'm not keen on disrupting that pair.
There are a few piggies online up for rehoming (no rescues here, piggies very rarely end up in the shelter):
*two adults who have lived as neighbours (I'd feel terrible having to pick one and leave the other behind, though)
*one 10 month old, very dominant according to his current owner.
*two baby brothers whose owner wants to rehome together (SO many pair litter brothers here and, you guessed it, they are back online looking for a home within a year a lot of the time). They are too little to be rehomed just yet, but will be grown enough in about 10 days.

Any advice? I really would like for them to get along but I don't want Baldrick to be so stressed and they just don't seem to be a good match. :-/
 
update: it's past 5am and about 2 hours ago the fight eventually broke out, nobody got hurt thankfully, but it's clear they are not going to work.
I rebuilt the third cage for Baldrick so he can interact with all the neighbours and let him out for floor time to blow some steam. Baby George got some cuddles and a treat and seems to have calmed down.
I feel horrible for both of them. :(
 
I’m sorry it hasn’t worked out.

Of the options of new friends you have listed, there are possible issues with them all so it would really just come down to which risk you are prepared to take and how many single piggies you have space for (Assuming baldrick won’t bond with anybody else).
However any bond comes down to character compatibility so there is never any guarantee of what will and won’t work until you try

1 - the two who live as neighbours - as you say if you take one then the other is left alone.
For you, the best possibility would be that you have the option to try George with one of them before committing to him (or if the bonding fails then the ability to return him and then take the other to try). You won’t know whether the bonding will work until you try it so if you cannot return the one you choose, you have to have the space for baldrick, George and the new adult to all remain single and in three separate cages.
I'm assuming these two adults were together but their bond failed. If so, then it is possible they are also both dominant so George would have to be submissive for it to work.
(Or take them both but you’d have to do that knowing you’ve got multiple single piggies whether George bonds with one of them or not)

2 - the dominant 10 month old, may be worth a try but with George just coming into his teens also, trying to bond two teenagers can have its difficulties. Again, youd have to know George is going to be and stay submissive given you know the 10 month is dominant.

3 - the two baby brothers are not an option.
Boar trios very rarely work out so if you take on these babies, you’d have to do so knowing that we would never recommend to add George with them (which would defeat the purpose of taking them on).
Or that if you do try it, then there is very little chance of long term success - at best you may keep them together for a few weeks but once the hormones hit boar trios involving young boars usually fail very quickly. Plus the cage sizing for boar trios does not follow normal sizing, an attempt would require the cage to be a 9x3 c&c cage or measure 3 metres by 1 metre.
Not only is George not likely to work with the baby brothers, an attempt can also ruin the bond between the brothers so they refuse to stay together post-attempt. An attempt could mean you end up with all three of these babies single and you wouldn’t be able to get any of them together even as a pair.

So options 1 and 2 are the only ones you can consider; or that maybe you have to just keep George and baldrick as neighbors and not take on any other piggies

Keep us posted
 
Hi,
my line of reasoning was pretty much the same.
One of the two adults may or may not work with George, who was submissive to Eppu but not quite to Baldrick and has shown he can and will fight back. The teen, same. Baldrick wants to be boss, but doesn't have the strength and stamina to back it up anymore. I was almost inclined to go for the babies. They are so young and both George and Baldrick would have a companion, at least for a while... Puberty permitting... Baldrick had accepted him the first few days, they were grooming each other- so it's not that he has a problem with babies per se, he changed his mind later.
I never considered creating a trio, nor attempting to keep them together (they are under a month old now, people here think keeping baby brothers together is cute cos they get along so well... Cos well, they're babies... Then you so often see the same piggies back up in the ads as they hit puberty cos people don't want to put up with it...)

I did successfully bond teens in the past, and dominant piggies like Eppu turned out to be easily submissive to nuclear levels of piggy dominance like Baldrick (who wasn't happy with it) or Surma (who we jokingly called "The White Death" but got along with Eppu like a charm for years) so I guess, one can never really know until the piggies meet.

There are a few things to consider: people here do not do "test introductions" so yes, if a piggy comes here, he'll be staying.
We have some space- the boys are currently in two 4x4 and one 3x4 (Baldrick). They love having the space though, and even as singles could never get used to staying in a 2x4. I coule build a top floor or rework the living room (well, half of it is piggy enclosures, what is one more, lol...)
6 piggies would be my limit for what I can physically manage at the moment, so each ones of the "candidates" has pros and cons...
 
That said, I would prefer a grown up companion for George, he needs guidance as much as he needs company.
At the same time I feel bad for Baldrick cos he really wants to have a friend but he's... A lot for most piggies. He managed to tick off even my mildest, calmest boys who consistently got along with anyone. So, ideally, we would need a grown-up and a baby and bucketfuls of luck 😂
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry it hasn’t worked out.

Of the options of new friends you have listed, there are possible issues with them all so it would really just come down to which risk you are prepared to take and how many single piggies you have space for (Assuming baldrick won’t bond with anybody else).
However any bond comes down to character compatibility so there is never any guarantee of what will and won’t work until you try

1 - the two who live as neighbours - as you say if you take one then the other is left alone.
For you, the best possibility would be that you have the option to try George with one of them before committing to him (or if the bonding fails then the ability to return him and then take the other to try). You won’t know whether the bonding will work until you try it so if you cannot return the one you choose, you have to have the space for baldrick, George and the new adult to all remain single and in three separate cages.
I'm assuming these two adults were together but their bond failed. If so, then it is possible they are also both dominant so George would have to be submissive for it to work.
(Or take them both but you’d have to do that knowing you’ve got multiple single piggies whether George bonds with one of them or not)

2 - the dominant 10 month old, may be worth a try but with George just coming into his teens also, trying to bond two teenagers can have its difficulties. Again, youd have to know George is going to be and stay submissive given you know the 10 month is dominant.

3 - the two baby brothers are not an option.
Boar trios very rarely work out so if you take on these babies, you’d have to do so knowing that we would never recommend to add George with them (which would defeat the purpose of taking them on).
Or that if you do try it, then there is very little chance of long term success - at best you may keep them together for a few weeks but once the hormones hit boar trios involving young boars usually fail very quickly. Plus the cage sizing for boar trios does not follow normal sizing, an attempt would require the cage to be a 9x3 c&c cage or measure 3 metres by 1 metre.
Not only is George not likely to work with the baby brothers, an attempt can also ruin the bond between the brothers so they refuse to stay together post-attempt. An attempt could mean you end up with all three of these babies single and you wouldn’t be able to get any of them together even as a pair.

So options 1 and 2 are the only ones you can consider; or that maybe you have to just keep George and baldrick as neighbors and not take on any other piggies

Keep us posted
Click to expand...
Thank you for your advice and letting me think out loud. I've contacted the lady who has the two adult piggies, if we take one, the other would still have neighbours at their home and not remain alone, so that makes it easier. We're going to pick up the older one on monday. He is 3 years old and seems like a good fit for George, on paper. He has adorable chubby cheeks and seems very sweet.
The teen and the two baby brothers are of course adorable too (I have a soft spot for red-eyed piggies) but the priority is to find a match for George, and an older piggy is the most sensible choice. George is only 3 months old and has already had a tough start, I really hope we can make him happy.
Baldrick, I'd love for him to have a friend of his own, but my grumpy old man never seems to accept anyone, or he comes on too strong and other piggies get spooked or annoyed. He has also aged noticeably almost all at once, and is starting to have digestive issues (nothing we can really do according to our vet, except limit his veggies and keep him comfortable during flare ups) and arthritis in his back legs.
 
That sounds good. Fingers crossed the bonding works.
Baldrick will be fine side by side with them as that provides interaction without having to share territory
 
Piggies&buns said:
That sounds good. Fingers crossed the bonding works.
Baldrick will be fine side by side with them as that provides interaction without having to share territory
Click to expand...
Thank you and everybody here for your constant help and support. I've been really going through it with the piggies lately, clearly the other day while I was watching Baldrick and George closely in the other room, Pip hasn't been eating and I only noticed yesterday when he seemed even quieter than usual. He barely pooped at all and I've been up all night, he was already in stasis. Thankfully I had all the necessary stuff and he started eating critical care on his own two hours ago, without needing the syringe... Our vet won't be in until tonight so it's going to be one of those days. He sure looks better than he did last night. :-/
 
Oh no, I’m sorry to hear that.
Make sure you weigh him every morning so you can be certain he is eating enough.
I hope he is ok
 
Piggies&buns said:
Oh no, I’m sorry to hear that.
Make sure you weigh him every morning so you can be certain he is eating enough.
I hope he is ok
Click to expand...
Will do, thank you. He's heavier than he looks, thankfully. He nibbled some hay (very little though) and moved to his sleeping bag, I'll give him some time to take a nap. He's had a gunky eye from a blocked tear duct forever that bothers him some days, but other than keeping it clean and help when it itches there's nothing I can do. I'm concerned about his tooth root now though, cos that boy *likes to eat*. He did take his morning cookie just now.
He's been quite subdued (even for his standards, as he's a very quiet piggy) since Eppu died, they did not live together but liked to hang out through the grid. He has a companion but while they don't bicker, they don't seem that close tbh.
 
Thank you ❤️ So far so good. Since yesterday evening, once his belly felt more relaxed (I have never been so happy to hear a fart in my life!😂) he's had almost an entire daily dose of Critical Care, some by syringe but most by himself. Gave him a second dose of Primperan this morning and he seems to be slowly getting better. He's definitely more alert and moved around a bit, went to drink on his own too. He had a little hay and produced some poops that I didn't see cos he ate them straight away (he was in my lap). He's not really going for the hay as much as I'd like though.
Our vet has no free slots until monday but they'll open at 5pm today and I'll give her a call, if nothing else I'm going to need to pick up some more vials of Primperan cos this was the last one, and it gives me peace of mind to keep it for emergencies such as this.
 
He has ❤️ just now he had a normal-shaped poop. A bit small for him, but shape and looks were good. He hasn't really lost more than 6 grams overall, in fact he has gained close to 100 grams over the last month and a half, so that's not too concerning. He's always been a small piggy, and lean. He's still not too enthusiastic about hay, while he usually popcorns until he flips himself over as soon as I touch the bag, so I don't like that. I have a nagging feeling something's not quite right with his teeth. However, right now he's eating hay, so I'm going to keep watching and see how much he eats.
He's such a cuddler and he's very attached to me so it's a very subtle difference with the way he snuggles up/naps on me normally vs when he's under the weather, but it's there.
 
Our amazing vet managed to fit us in for 7pm, we checked him thoroughly, his teeth are fine, belly is full of food now, poop is getting back to normal, and he doesn't have a fever. She gave me more Primperan just in case he ends up needing it (and I keep a stash cos Baldrick has chronic bloat, but he hasn't needed it so far more than a couple of times). The x-ray shows he's already developing arthritis in his right knee, which explains his peculiar walk. Otherwise he's perfectly healthy. Maybe there were too many changes in a short period of time and it stressed him, but he's ok now. I'm so relieved.
Our vet is not only an amazing surgeon (if not for her, five of our piggies would have had a lot shorter lives) but she also takes the time to teach, and since she is one of only two exotic vets in the region (but by far the best) it helps immensely to be able to make some decisions that would usually require a vet when she is not available. He's eating now, all is well. 🥳
 
Unfortunately Pip is still struggling and I cannot figure out what is wrong with him.
He has really poor appetite, he's lethargic, and he's just overall poorly and unhappy. He has lost 44 grams total during the last two days, even though he has been eating (unenthusiastically)and pooping well enough, so clearly something is wrong.
He isn't bloated, and even if I touch him he doesn't say anything that would tell me if something hurts somewhere, but he looks like he's in pain or at least very uncomfortable.
The x-ray he had excluded bloat, hidden growths, and bladder stones. I think we need an x-ray of his head though, as the vet looked at his teeth and they're fine on the outside.
My only other theory is that he really doesn't like his new companion, but they haven't fought or shown any signs of aggression and do share a hiding spot.

Like I said, Pip is an especially quiet and mild-mannered piggy and it's really hard to tell...
 
Hopefully as he was fully checked by your amazing Vet it might be that he doesn’t like his new companion …
Sending healing vibes to Pip 🥰
 
He usually sleeps flat with his little chicken legs spread out, and he's been under the Ikea doll bed with his little cagemate for at least a week, not as often in his sleeping bag that he adores. His favourite place to sleep is in my lap under my sweater or inside my shirt. He's riduculously cuddly for a guinea pig. I'm thinking about a trial separation but his companion is 4 months old and it's not good for him to be alone...
 
Don’t worry about a separation leaving the baby alone - it won’t do that as such. As long as they are side by side then they can still interact and have companionship between the bars. (The two piggies I have left had to split up at 4 months old due to a fight).
If this is any chance this is due to a problem in the bond, then a separation would be needed for the sake of his health
 
Thank you, that is reassuring, I will arrange it.
Basically we were down to three single boys and, while Baldrick seemed happy in his own space, Pip and Eppu seemed lonely and craved companionship. None of them got along with the other to live together, so we decided to take in a baby for Pip, see how Eppu reacted, and since he was going nuts, a couple of weeks later we took in George, and they were very happy. Then Eppu had the stroke and passed away. So now there's two babies and two adults who want nothing to do with them. As far as character goes, George seems like a better fit for Pip, but I did not want to disturb the bond with the other baby (Pepe, cos he looks like a skunk)- while they are not particularly lovey-dovey, they are civil and sharing nicely. But I don't know, what I see is that Pip is poorly and doesn't lay down to sleep as if he's hurting or too nervous to do so. He did lay down now when I had him under the blanket in my lap though.
 
Also, we promised to take in a 3 year old on Monday and I don't want to back out of that (he was in a trio and being bullied, so his owner separated them, but cannot keep him and the piggy she tried to bond him with due to personal circumstances. We promised to take at least one of them.

Piggies here are still mostly "kids' pets" and often live in unsuitable cages or end up being rehomed after a few months, I know we can't save them all, but I'm trying to do what I can. Most piggy owners are responsible and take some precautions to make sure they are not alone and go to a good home, but there's so many teens to 1year olds going around cos suddenly "the child is allergic" and parents having their piggies make babies as entertainment to their children and then rehoming them with barely a thought. It drives me nuts. Clearly as there's rarely, if ever, piggies in the shelter, it's not as bad as elsewhere, but still. The other day I came across a "satin" and it was my understanding that's illegal? I hope it was just poorly worded (maybe they just meant "smooth fur as opposed to curly") but I would not be surprised if it happened from casual breeding :-/
 
So but thankfully people like you are making sure that at least some can be saved and have a safe and happy life 💐
 
Hi, just wanted to let you know Pip is doing much better, put a little weight back on, and yesterday he and his little companion were quite affectionate with each other, so perhaps there's no need to separate them after all. I moved their furniture around a bit, and he finally relaxed and laid down to sleep.
We're going to pick up the 3 year old piggy anyway today, he seems to be in a loving home but they cannot keep him, so hopefully he and George will get along.

Baldrick has visibly aged during the last few months and he looks like a frail old grandpa. He is in decent health overall, but I'm not convinced he would appreciate sharing his space and going through more stress. He seems aware that he's not as strong (and intimidating) as he used to be and his body language with the other piggies lets it show. I've moved him to a 3x4 as the 4x4 was too big for him with his arthritis, and this is a bit easier for him while it can still fit his favourite hidey (which is a cat house so it's a bit too big for a standard cage). He hasn't been bloated the last few days either.
 
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