Pellets, don’t know anymore if right pellet exists ?!

[oxtinamona]

I’m currently completely reviewing my pigs diet, as we recently lost one boy to kidney stones which, quite frankly was a complete shock to us. We feed our pigs balanced diet, we don’t avoid calcium as they do need it, but they are on low calcium diet and after days and weeks of researching for the best pellets available we chose JR Farm grainless... sadly zooplus stopped selling 15kg bags for some reason which was perfect for us having 7 pigs. After hours and hours of further research we found rosewood grainless pellets , but I’m questioning if they were the reason for Presley suddenly getting stones as that was the only change in their diet ( we switched beginning of this year)... I have been researching pellets for nearly 2 weeks now and I’m still no wiser...whilst rosewood don’t have any grains in them I just don’t know anymore if they’re ok or not, I’m now looking at Versele Laga’s new Nature’s range and they have things like yellow and green peas?? I just don’t feel like that’s ok, but then again I actually don’t know what is ok anymore ? I had pigs on and off since I was a teenager and I’m now 38 and feel like I want to bang my head against a wall.. my pigs become fussy with hay as well... I don’t think they eat enough, or maybe I’m just paranoid following Presley passing ? I’ve no idea anymore. Does anyone else find that their pigs pull a lot of hay out of their rack on the floor and lay in it? I know it’s their natural instincts but do they eat enough? It’s been crazing me. No idea what pellets to go for. I may just ditch them full on... I wish we had Sherwood pellets in UK so I can try them ...does anyone else feel the same? Another of our boys has been peeing blood last week and vet put him on Baytril and Metacam and I still can see a little blood in his wee (I think )see pic below. I start to think he has kidney stones as well so we will be taking him for an x Ray tomorrow ...he’s been perky and eating and hasn’t lost any weight, but I have a bad feeling and you just cannot tell with pigs, can you. They hide pain and illness so well it backfires...
sorry about an essay, I feel a bit helpless and confused. I’m just trying and always have been trying to provide them with what’s best out there, but I don’t know what’s best anymore and I’m doubting myself massively ... what if rosewood pellets caused it? And if yes, what is so bad in them ? And if we are to switch, what do we switch to?

 

[Skullblits]

Try science select grainless

 

[oxtinamona]

Try science select grainless

Thank you for the suggestion... Just checked the ingredients and personally that’s a pellets I definitely be staying away from as it’s filled with soya ( which usually is GMO) soy oil and some other worrying ingredients... I’m not sure if yucca is ok ( I think it’s added to reduce urine odour ) and why hydrolysed yeast? I will keep searching I think I may just completely ditch pellets

 

[PigglePuggle]

A lot of us feed the science selective grain free, its a good pellet and lower calcium than many brands.

 

[oxtinamona]

A lot of us feed the science selective grain free, its a good pellet and lower calcium than many brands.

Maybe, but I do not want anything that contains soya...that was main reason I ditched oxbow as it gave couple of my pigs bloat and bag poops

 

[oxtinamona]

Maybe, but I do not want anything that contains soya...that was main reason I ditched oxbow as it gave couple of my pigs bloat and bag poops

Bad* poos not bag

 

[eileen]

ive used rosewood pellets without any urinary problems,versele laga guinea pig complete are a good pellet and grainless,most piggies tolerate these.zooplus do the large 8kgs bag.it is unfortunate that you have been unlucky with stones,some of this i believe is down to genetics.ive got 20 piggies non have had urinary stones.....just lucky.

 

[Lady Kelly]

ive used rosewood pellets without any urinary problems,versele laga guinea pig complete are a good pellet and grainless,most piggies tolerate these.zooplus do the large 8kgs bag.it is unfortunate that you have been unlucky with stones,some of this i believe is down to genetics.ive got 20 piggies non have had urinary stones.....just lucky.

Craig at Chine House said it's more down to genetics and some pigs just being prone with no obvious reason. Even when I said I was changing Donald's diet he said not to expect it to make much of a difference in terms of whether he develops stones or not

 

[piggieminder]

I've lost two piggies to stones, the vet went through what I was feeding and said there was nothing she would change. She too felt this is down to bad genetics. The best we can do is offer a low calcium diet, filter the water (especially in a hard water area) and feed a very small quantity of grainless pellets or a good quality non grainless that is well balanced, she suggested Burgess. I feed Science Sellective, Verselle Laga, JR Farm and Burgess Mint if I have to buy locally.

 

[oxtinamona]

I've lost two piggies to stones, the vet went through what I was feeding and said there was nothing she would change. She too felt this is down to bad genetics. The best we can do is offer a low calcium diet, filter the water (especially in a hard water area) and feed a very small quantity of grainless pellets or a good quality non grainless that is well balanced, she suggested Burgess. I feed Science Sellective, Verselle Laga, JR Farm and Burgess Mint if I have to buy locally.

That’s also what I read on many sources, I was also told the same by our vet, but I still cannot 100% wrap my head around it... not quite sure how genetics can really be such a huge factor... I still would like to believe that it’s certain food combinations that promote stones... I wish there was scientific Explanation and therefore a way around it... I read one of Harvard researches which said that vitamin C excess can cause specific reaction combining with calcium intakes and not enough water ... ghrrr maybe I should have became a scientist not some boring office worker

 

[oxtinamona]

ive used rosewood pellets without any urinary problems,versele laga guinea pig complete are a good pellet and grainless,most piggies tolerate these.zooplus do the large 8kgs bag.it is unfortunate that you have been unlucky with stones,some of this i believe is down to genetics.ive got 20 piggies non have had urinary stones.....just lucky.

Reasonable part of me knows that, my heart and unreasonableness pushes me to find answers and solutions ...

 

[Eriathwen]

I personally use harringtons, I used to use a mixture of various things but then I swapped to a different pellet and ended up with stones, sludge, UTI's interstitial cystitis, there was so much sludge in one of my extra needs piggies that we lost her. When I swapped back to just the harringtons everything stopped going to hell. Other than the piggy with IC who's bladder was irreversibly irritated, but this was due to a genetically weaker bladder lining/predisposition to IC. I definitely see the logic in that, because out of the 12 pigs I had at the time, all fed exactly the same, only 4 had issues, all in different cages.

Best thing is increase the water intake. First thing I would look at is hay consumption, the more dry hay they eat, the thirstier they are and the more water they drink the more frequently the bladder is naturally flushed out. Pigs that aren't drinking enough will have calcium sat in the bladder, irritating the lining. I would try offering hay on the floor instead of from a rack, or at least a nice pile underneath it so piggy can choose for themselves. I know my lazy lumps wouldn't eat nearly as much hay if they had to work harder for it from a rack.
For piggies with problems, I use cucumber infused water, it's really upped my IC pigs water intake and massively reduced the instances of sludge and pain while urinating.

 

[oxtinamona]

I personally use harringtons, I used to use a mixture of various things but then I swapped to a different pellet and ended up with stones, sludge, UTI's interstitial cystitis, there was so much sludge in one of my extra needs piggies that we lost her. When I swapped back to just the harringtons everything stopped going to hell. Other than the piggy with IC who's bladder was irreversibly irritated, but this was due to a genetically weaker bladder lining/predisposition to IC. I definitely see the logic in that, because out of the 12 pigs I had at the time, all fed exactly the same, only 4 had issues, all in different cages.

Best thing is increase the water intake. First thing I would look at is hay consumption, the more dry hay they eat, the thirstier they are and the more water they drink the more frequently the bladder is naturally flushed out. Pigs that aren't drinking enough will have calcium sat in the bladder, irritating the lining. I would try offering hay on the floor instead of from a rack, or at least a nice pile underneath it so piggy can choose for themselves. I know my lazy lumps wouldn't eat nearly as much hay if they had to work harder for it from a rack.
For piggies with problems, I use cucumber infused water, it's really upped my IC pigs water intake and massively reduced the instances of sludge and pain while urinating.

Some of my pigs are bad with drinking water so I give them water with syringe ... one of our girls who lost her friend last week isn’t really herself and clearly is mourning... she’s not eating enough hay and not drinking much, so I’ve decreased her veg to encourage her to eat more hay and drink more...so far it is not working. I want to pull my hair out. They became really fussy with hay ... they never used to be.I will put some hay on the floor tomorrow maybe it’ll help and will make some cucumber water - sounds genius! It’s a mystery with the genetics for stones. It really bugs me.
Does anyone know how long does it take for the stones to form? Roughly ?

 

[oxtinamona]

Some of my pigs are bad with drinking water so I give them water with syringe ... one of our girls who lost her friend last week isn’t really herself and clearly is mourning... she’s not eating enough hay and not drinking much, so I’ve decreased her veg to encourage her to eat more hay and drink more...so far it is not working. I want to pull my hair out. They became really fussy with hay ... they never used to be.I will put some hay on the floor tomorrow maybe it’ll help and will make some cucumber water - sounds genius! It’s a mystery with the genetics for stones. It really bugs me.
Does anyone know how long does it take for the stones to form? Roughly ?

Well our second boy has stones. This time in his bladder. The vet said it is a bit ‘ better’ if word better applies to such situation...
as we caught it much earlier than with Presley and he is ouch stronger and haven’t lost as much weight we have to ahead for him to be operated. Please wish us good luck. We cannot lose another piggy, we haven’t even made peace with Presley’s passing 2 weeks ago ... it’s jusy an awful situation. Despite spending money on best products available it didn’t work.
I have seen somewhere a thread on rosewood grainless pellets. I thought they’re a good pellets, without any filers and soya but I’m sure I saw something about them being not that great... a anyone familiar with this?
Anyway, please have your fingers crossed for our beloved Elvis. I need him back home

 

[piggieminder]

Sending healing vibes to Elvis and hugs to you. So sorry you are going through this.

 

[oxtinamona]

Sending healing vibes to Elvis and hugs to you. So sorry you are going through this.

Thank you, the vet called around 8pm... the operation was successful but of course he is not out of the woods yet. He has load of little stones and one of them was stuck in his urethra which was most likely causing blood in urine. In a way It
Was a blessing in disguise as otherwise we wouldn’t have notice anything wrong with him at all... and the lump which was the original reason for a vet visit check up turned out to be a hernia ! A hernia. Poor little things had it since January roughly and two other vets didn’t pick on it.. I don’t blame them entirely, mind you the vet we spoke today in the morning suggested it could even be hernia. Well he talked it out . THe surgeon who operated Elvis said she fixed best she could whilst having him opened and she thinks it should be ok, but no guarantee. If it returns then it’ll require a major surgery and she couldn’t prolong his surgery today obviously as piggies cannot stay under anaesthetic too long from what j gather... fingers cross my little snow baby will get through the critical time.

 

[piggieminder]

So pleased to hear the operation was successful drspite his extra problem, poor Elvis.

 

[Piggiefamily]

I wish a speady recovery

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I feed a hay and grass diet with a selection of veg and only feed a few nuggets, as a treat, scattered into the hay. I’ve never had a piggy with bladder stones.

 

[oxtinamona]

I feed a hay and grass diet with a selection of veg and only feed a few nuggets, as a treat, scattered into the hay. I’ve never had a piggy with bladder stones.

We are now phasing pellets out as we speak... the money saved on that we will invest into buying more organic veg than we do now...I’m absolutely freaked out but this situation and fearing that the rest of my pigs will have issues too... my partner and I are watching them obsessively and they probably think we have gone completely doolally. I’ve never been this stressed in my entire life. Having awful dreams as well. I’m hoping this will have a happy ending. Can only hope to be honest. Has anyone had any pigs with bladder/kidney stones? Have they returned after an op? Our vet said that sadly it is likely the will return and she said that operating on the kidneys again isn’t really and option, as so invasive but for bladder it can be repeated it’s just a matter of how soon they return if they do. I’m praying and hoping they wont .
@furryfriends (TEAS) do you think I should completely cut out vegetables with calcium in it? It doesn’t seem quite right to do it, as they do need calcium after all, but I’m desperate to help Elvis and the others to avoid any more stones

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

We are now phasing pellets out as we speak... the money saved on that we will invest into buying more organic veg than we do now...I’m absolutely freaked out but this situation and fearing that the rest of my pigs will have issues too... my partner and I are watching them obsessively and they probably think we have gone completely doolally. I’ve never been this stressed in my entire life. Having awful dreams as well. I’m hoping this will have a happy ending. Can only hope to be honest. Has anyone had any pigs with bladder/kidney stones? Have they returned after an op? Our vet said that sadly it is likely the will return and she said that operating on the kidneys again isn’t really and option, as so invasive but for bladder it can be repeated it’s just a matter of how soon they return if they do. I’m praying and hoping they wont .
@furryfriends (TEAS) do you think I should completely cut out vegetables with calcium in it? It doesn’t seem quite right to do it, as they do need calcium after all, but I’m desperate to help Elvis and the others to avoid any more stones

No, they need calcium. I feed all types of veg, including those with higher calcium levels. However, hay and grass make up the biggest part of their diet. Use the money you save from not buying pellets to buy a selection of good quality hay.

 

[oxtinamona]

No, they need calcium. I feed all types of veg, including those with higher calcium levels. However, hay and grass make up the biggest part of their diet. Use the money you save from not buying pellets to buy a selection of good quality hay.

Honestly, with hand on heart we buy the best of the best for them and still weren’t able to prevent it... we used to buy timothy hay from timothyhay.co.uk- they don’t like it
I’m going to continue with their diet with some green veg and i don’t thing it’s the veg that caused it. They have a wide variety of foods I give them and they eat everything. They aren’t fussy luckily... the only thing I try to give them regularly is peppers for vitamin C ... I hope that cutting out pellets will change things ...

 

[oxtinamona]

Honestly, with hand on heart we buy the best of the best for them and still weren’t able to prevent it... we used to buy timothy hay from timothyhay.co.uk- they don’t like it
I’m going to continue with their diet with some green veg and i don’t thing it’s the veg that caused it. They have a wide variety of foods I give them and they eat everything. They aren’t fussy luckily... the only thing I try to give them regularly is peppers for vitamin C ... I hope that cutting out pellets will change things ...

@furryfriends (TEAS) hi, just wanted to leave an update on Elvis. Operation went really well and he seems to be recovering well too. However I’m not going to relax until I know it’s all gone and healed etc.

In a meanwhile I just spotted one of our girls crying when pooping ... I have no idea what’s going on. I had pigs for years and have never had this happen. I’m feeling like a total failure. Don’t know what we are doing wrong ?!?! It looks like she wants to pee but can’t... I won’t be surprised if this is a another kidney / bladder stone. My partner and I are in bits. We spent over £1k on the vet in last 3 weeks and clearly it isn’t over yet...
I’ve never been this stressed in my entire life... why is this happening? Is it the pellets? Did we feed them too much spring greens ? There was a period they had spring greens every week as I didn’t think they are the highest in calcium, there’s so many contradicting sources regarding vegetable mineral content I don’t know what to trust anymore...
anyway, we are taking her for an emergency appointment the minute my partner gets home...
god give me strength as I haven’t got any left... don’t know when Was last time I slept and felt rested...poor Momo, she only lost Presley 3 weeks ago ...

 

[oxtinamona]

@furryfriends (TEAS) hi, just wanted to leave an update on Elvis. Operation went really well and he seems to be recovering well too. However I’m not going to relax until I know it’s all gone and healed etc.

In a meanwhile I just spotted one of our girls crying when pooping ... I have no idea what’s going on. I had pigs for years and have never had this happen. I’m feeling like a total failure. Don’t know what we are doing wrong ?!?! It looks like she wants to pee but can’t... I won’t be surprised if this is a another kidney / bladder stone. My partner and I are in bits. We spent over £1k on the vet in last 3 weeks and clearly it isn’t over yet...
I’ve never been this stressed in my entire life... why is this happening? Is it the pellets? Did we feed them too much spring greens ? There was a period they had spring greens every week as I didn’t think they are the highest in calcium, there’s so many contradicting sources regarding vegetable mineral content I don’t know what to trust anymore...
anyway, we are taking her for an emergency appointment the minute my partner gets home...
god give me strength as I haven’t got any left... don’t know when Was last time I slept and felt rested...poor Momo, she only lost Presley 3 weeks ago ...

COuld this be water thus causing it? We use Brita filters but live in hard water area