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Piggie under the weather after antibiotic injection

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PigTastic

PigTastic

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One of my girl piggies, Lavender (1 year old), has just been diagnosed with cystitis. She's been straining a bit when she wees and poos, and I've noticed when I pick her up that she's always damp underneath.

Yesterday she was given an antibiotic (septrin) and anti-inflammatory injection by the vet, supposedly this lasts for 3 days and she will go onto oral septrin on Friday. Before the vet visit she seemed pretty well in herself, eating and drinking fine and running around as usual. Since bringing her home, she really hasn't been herself. She is still eating, but only small amounts - she wouldn't finish her veggies this morning and usually she wolfs them down and then tries to eat her sister's share as well. She has been munching on some hay and pellets on and off but definitely seems more withdrawn and lethargic than usual.

I know antibiotics can upset their tummies, and I've got a probiotic coming in the post today (Avipro) but is there anything else I should be doing? When should I start to worry (more than I am already at any rate!)? I tried to syringe feed her some critical care this morning but she wasn't interested past a couple of licks.

Thanks for any help!
 
Sorry to hear Lavender is poorly. When did you visit the vets? Was it defiantely Septrin given as an injection by the vet? The Anti Inflamatory was probably metacam which should help with the pain as well as any inflamation.

Please weigh her daily so you can see how much food is going in. If she is losing weight and not eating you will need to syringe feed (as you have already done) with Critical Care which would be the best thing for her or even mashed up pellets if she is resisting the CC.
It can be easier to syringe feed by cutting the end off a 1ml syringe, this makes sucking up much easier and lessens the chance of squirting out too much into piggies mouth. It is important that she maintains her weight.

Was there any blood present in her wee? Did the vet test for this? Is she pooing and weeing and is there a decent output of both? If she goes further downhill please return to the vets straight away and get an x-ray done to rule out any nasties such as bladder stones.

In the meantime while waitng for a probiotic you can always give poo soup which is the poo of a healthy piggie mashed up with water and syringe feed to the poorly piggie. But to be honest she has had both medicines by injection so they shouldn't be affecting her guts, hence why I am a little concerned by her lack of appetite - however this could be a pain response.
 
I was thinking this sounds like a pain response too, is it possible to speak to your vet about further pain relief? I also think it would be wise to have an xray or ultrasound done to rule out any stones or blockage.

Just noticed that you are in Herts, whereabouts?
 
Thanks for the excellent reply sport billy! No, there has never been any sign of blood in her wee. They are on fleece, so I'm sure I would have noticed, and whenever she was damp underneath I checked my hand and it just looked like clear wee. The vet did mention the possibility of stones but since there was no sign of blood, she decided to treat for an infection first. It was yesterday morning she went to the vets by the way. I thought she said it was septrin in the injection, but I can't actually remember her saying that now so maybe I just assumed it was that since the oral antibiotic she gave me was septrin.

I wonder if perhaps the stress of the vet visit has worsened the original infection? Because she seemed fine in herself before she went to the vet - but not well as soon as we got her home, which is why I thought the injection must be responsible. The probiotic has just arrived in the post so I'll try her with some of that anyway just in case.

She is definitely still pooing, I have had her on my lap and seen some normal-sized poos coming out, maybe less than usual though. Also overnight there were a couple of very small round poos mixed in with the normal ones where she had been sleeping. I haven't seen her wee yet, although I may well have missed it, it's hard with two piggies. Maybe I should take her out on her own for a bit and see if she does?
 
helen105281, yes I am in Herts, in St Albans, how about you?

Yes I can take her back to the vet any time, I just don't want to stress her unnecessarily - if it's not the injection that's the cause of her getting worse, then I think it might have been the stress of the visit that has made her worse, since she was totally fine before she went in terms of appetite and liveliness! I will definitely get them to check for stones if she doesn't quickly improve.
 
I'm in Letchworth but help at the piggy clinic that is run once a month at a vets in Broxbourne.

I would call the vet and explain how she is and they may be able to arrange for you to pick some pain relief up without taking her down there.
 
Thanks, I think I will call them for advice anyway since it's been more than 24 hours now.

I keep hearing good things about the Broxbourne vets, I'll keep them in mind!
 
PigTastic said:
Thanks for the excellent reply sport billy! No, there has never been any sign of blood in her wee. They are on fleece, so I'm sure I would have noticed, and whenever she was damp underneath I checked my hand and it just looked like clear wee. The vet did mention the possibility of stones but since there was no sign of blood, she decided to treat for an infection first. It was yesterday morning she went to the vets by the way. I thought she said it was septrin in the injection, but I can't actually remember her saying that now so maybe I just assumed it was that since the oral antibiotic she gave me was septrin.

I wonder if perhaps the stress of the vet visit has worsened the original infection? Because she seemed fine in herself before she went to the vet - but not well as soon as we got her home, which is why I thought the injection must be responsible. The probiotic has just arrived in the post so I'll try her with some of that anyway just in case.

She is definitely still pooing, I have had her on my lap and seen some normal-sized poos coming out, maybe less than usual though. Also overnight there were a couple of very small round poos mixed in with the normal ones where she had been sleeping. I haven't seen her wee yet, although I may well have missed it, it's hard with two piggies. Maybe I should take her out on her own for a bit and see if she does?
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No problem. good news on the pooing front, If you seperate her briefly from her friend and syringe her some water and pop her in a tupperware or bowl you can see if she is weeing. When you go back to your vet ask them to test the wee with a dipstick this can show for prescence of blood.
This method can also be used when taking a sample to the vets (often best to do this as close to the vets apt as possible) http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?97156-How-to-collect-a-urine-sample&highlight=

I would defiantely speak to the vet about getting some pain relief such as metacam to give at home as once the injection as worn off she may be in pain which can stop them eating. Helen above helps at a clinic with a fantastic vet and a very knowldgable lady that runs specialist guinea pig clinics. It may be worth asking any advice from them.

Love to Lavender, I hoep she feels better soon x
 
PigTastic said:
Thanks, I think I will call them for advice anyway since it's been more than 24 hours now.

I keep hearing good things about the Broxbourne vets, I'll keep them in mind!
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They do conscious xrays and ultrasound too and the main vet is a bladder expert.

sport_billy said:
No problem. good news on the pooing front, If you seperate her briefly from her friend and syringe her some water and pop her in a tupperware or bowl you can see if she is weeing. When you go back to your vet ask them to test the wee with a dipstick this can show for prescence of blood.
This method can also be used when taking a sample to the vets (often best to do this as close to the vets apt as possible) http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?97156-How-to-collect-a-urine-sample&highlight=

I would defiantely speak to the vet about getting some pain relief such as metacam to give at home as once the injection as worn off she may be in pain which can stop them eating. Helen above helps at a clinic with a fantastic vet and a very knowldgable lady that runs specialist guinea pig clinics. It may be worth asking any advice from them.

Love to Lavender, I hoep she feels better soon x
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Thanks Sport Billy, I am happy to help where I can and can refer on to Karen who runs the clinic if needed.
 
Thanks so much to both of you, I feel a little bit better now. I will ring my vets and see what they think.
 
I just wanted to wish you good luck with your piggy. Having had similar problems with my own i know how worrying it can be.
Just wanted to add, if you have a garden dandelions act as a diuretic so are particularly useful when getting them to wee. Also if you are having trouble syringe feeding I found that some of my girls hate the syringe but woll happily take it off a teaspoon or plastic spoon. x
 
I had a piggy go downhill very quickly (to the point that we almost lost him) after an awful reaction to an antibiotic injection (not Septrin), so I completely understand your worry.

I would be interested to find out what other injection he had. Metacam would certainly make sense as an anti-inflammatory, but guinea pigs have such fast metabolisms that any medication they are given is usually burned off completely in a couple of hours (usually 12 at the most). I have never heard of anything lasting in their systems for 3 days.

Hugs for your little man x
 
Thanks klee, the vet suggested giving her dandelions too and fortunately we have lots in our garden so I have been giving her plenty. I did try the critical care off a teaspoon before I tried the syringe but I think she just wasn't interested in it full stop. I have seen her wee now, there is a kind of strange sediment in it, almost fluorescent yellow? It's a bit odd. She is going back to the vet in about an hour, I rang them and they said it would be best to bring her back for a look.

I will ask them what exactly was in the original injection if I remember!
 
Jerrybelly said:
I had a piggy go downhill very quickly (to the point that we almost lost him) after an awful reaction to an antibiotic injection (not Septrin), so I completely understand your worry.

I would be interested to find out what other injection he had. Metacam would certainly make sense as an anti-inflammatory, but guinea pigs have such fast metabolisms that any medication they are given is usually burned off completely in a couple of hours (usually 12 at the most). I have never heard of anything lasting in their systems for 3 days.

Hugs for your little man x
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Just realised that your little piggy is a girl, and not a boy! Ooopsie! Sorry mallethead :red

Best of luck at the vet later
 
Oh and I'm sorry to hear about your piggy's reaction jerrybelly, just like humans some of them must react badly to some medicines which is horrible when you're only giving it to them to try to help them.
 
Jerrybelly said:
My Jerry's wee also turned bright yellow a few hours after the injection. There seem to be a lot of similarities here. If you're interested, this is his thread:
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/...biotic-given-for-possible-UTI&highlight=Jerry
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I just read your thread, it does actually sound very similar - I'm convinced it was the injection, like your piggy she was totally fine in herself before going to the vet, apart from the straining and dampness, which didn't seem to bother her too much. I will find out what it was so I can avoid it in the future. I'm not sure what the vet will be able to suggest tbh but I do want someone to have a look at her today so I know I've done everything I can.
 
Good luck at the vets, definatley find out which Antibiotic that injection contained. Please keep us updated on her. How is little Lavender at the moment?
 
We are back from the vets, apparently she now has gas and bloat probably from the antibiotic injection - which wasn't septrin, it was a tetracycline, I've realised now (but not at the time) that a tetracycline could be one of a number of different antibiotics but probably doxycycline from a quick google? She has been syringe-fed some bio-lapis and something to break down the gas, she did spit a good amount of it back out onto the examination table and onto my sleeve though, and I've got to get more into her myself tonight and tomorrow so that should be fun! She is currently back in the cage and chowing down on a big pile of grass, both piggies have been rumbling at me a bit ever since to punish me for the indignities:))
 
I suspect that the gas has built up because of her lack of appetite. Did the vet give you some gut stimulants to continue giving at home? The bio-lapis will combat the effects of the antibiotics which have probably had a nasty effect on her gut, but won't have any effect on the gas/bloat.

Is she still pooing as normal?
 
I have spoken to the lady who runs the clinics as the name rang alarm bells with me and she has advised that Tetracycline is used with caution as the risk of toxicity is extremely high. Your pig now needs fluids and activated charcoal treatment. I would also not advise feeding her grass while she has bloat.
 
helen105281 said:
she has advised that Tetracycline is used with caution as the risk of toxicity is extremely high. Your pig now needs fluids and activated charcoal treatment. I would also not advise feeding her grass while she has bloat.
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I STRONGLY disagree with the clearly theoretical response/advice on proposed treatment cited above on the grounds of my own personal practical and medical experience, combined with that of an extremely cavy savvy vet practice and the information supplied in this thread.

ANTIBIOTIC CHOICE
It is perfectly Ok to give a long acting tetracycline INJECTION to guinea pigs - this became the antibiotic of choice for my own guinea pigs that suffered an outbreak of cervical lymphadenitis that was resistant to both baytril and septrin several years ago. It is NOT toxic and works well for pigs in certain situations. My pigs didn;t even have a change in poops whilst on this drug and i haven't seen any case histories where it has actually had an adverse effect.

There MAY have been more appropriate i.e. less risky, antibiotics to give instead of this for your piggie's current [*]urinary[/*] condition - ie oral septrin which she is now on.

So I would like to re-emphasise that Tet injections are NOT NECESSARILY TOXIC to the extent of requiring charcoal and fluids - and given the current symptoms there is absolutely no need to provide those treatments TO THIS PIG. There is no evidence of Clostridial overgrowth with this particular drug provided it is given by injection....and your Lavender piggie has had just one dose and is not showing any signs.

Guinea pig guts take 24hours to respond to events. It is clear from the timelines that your piggie had already restricted her eating due to her illness....which affected her gut prior to the antibiotic being given. It's only now that the impact of her illness on her gut is starting to show and unfortunately it is co-inciding with the administration of an antibiotic.....and all too often people are keen to blame the antibiotic concerned instead of the illness/pain/not eating/gut slowing down cycle.


DIAGNOSIS

From your original post it sounds like your vet has assumed the least worst case scenario of cystitis/infection with appropriate treatment based purely upon Lavender squeeking when weeing.......rather than testing by either ultrasound or Xray to rule out stones..........and you also say there is no blood in the wee.

1) What tests have been done - ie urine analysis by dipstick or biochem analysis of sample - to confirm this is indeed a urinary infection and that there is no microscopic blood?
2) Has a culture been done to identify the causative organism and its antibiotic resistance profile?

Regardless of the above - given her current condition
3) Are you weighing her every day to monitor for weight loss
4) Are you syringe feeding her up to 20ml every 4 hours in order to maintain her weight if she is not eating much
5) Has the vet given you gut stimulants to account for any gut problems - cisparide and zantac are the best combination but metoclopromide or emeprid and zantac will do just as well. PM me for dosages
6) Has the vet "tented" her skin to identify whether she is dehydrated or not?
7) Do you have appropriate oral pain relief - ie metacam

As far as discoloured urine is concerned - this is often the case with septrin administration and is not harmful. Many drugs contain inert colourants that get filtered by the kidneys and excreted in the urine. Septrin is one, Vit B12 injections to encourage eating is another. Some painkillers given by injection also have colourants in the liquid.
Also if there IS an infection then the bacteria present may also be contribution to the discolouration. It is not right to blame it on the antibiotic itself - most of them are colourless.


The most important thing to do at the moment is go with the vets recommended medications but to also ensure that 3) to 7) are also being done. If septrin doesn't reduce the symptoms ie pain whilst weeing - within the next week then you will need to go back to your vet ...or find another one that is more cavy savvy.......and ask for either ultrasound or xray to confirm cystitis/infection/stones or other cause.

Hope this helps.

x
 
I am so sorry to hear your girl is so poorly. We sadly have quite a bit of experience with bladder issues in piggies from straightforward infections to problematic sludge and stones. Our vet's choice of antibiotic is generally Septrin in the first instance, the period of time given can range from 7 - 10 days to up to a month for really stubborn cases. We have also had very good results with Zithromax in cases which have been very difficult to clear. Under the care of a local exotic specialist we have also had antibiotics given by injection for severely poorly pigs from the list shown above, but with no ill effects, as long as they are given by jab and not orally. The information Pebble has provided above is wonderful, simple things like offering critcal care by syringe in order to maintain weight will help hugely and weighing daily to ascertain whether she is losing or maintaining weight will be invaluable information for your vet. If your vet hasn't given you any on going pain relief I would speak to them about that and also about gut stimulants etc. It sounds as if you have a fairly knowledge vet, don't be afraid to ask lots of questions - even printing off posts from the forum if it helps. Urinary problems can be a pig to overcome, but stick with it. If there are no signs of improvements I would ask for an x-ray or scan to rule out stones. Do keep us posted.
 
Thank you everyone for your continuing advice and interest! I would say she seems similar this morning, I have seen her having a little munch on some hay but she still doesn't look quite like herself. I would be surprised if the vet had given something directly toxic. I went there on recommendation from another piggy person and they are supposedly cavy savvy and good with exotics in general. In fact I drove her over to the next town rather than using my local vet because of this.

Pebble, in answer to your questions:

1. and 2. No, she hasn't had any tests on her urine yet.
3. Yes I am weighing her every day. I haven't weighed her yet today but yesterday she'd lost about 20 or 30g compared to her weight 2 days previously but she was wiggling around in the scales a bit which made it difficult to get an exact reading.
4. I have tried syringe feeding, I am not very good at it, she hates it and wriggles around and spits and most ends up on my lap... But I will keep trying. Do you really mean 20ml every 4 hours? That seems like a lot, I'm not sure I would be able to get that much into her!
5. She did have a gut stimulant given at the vet, but nothing to take home.
6. Yes the vet did pinch her skin and said she's not dehydrated (or at least she wasn't yesterday afternoon).
7. Again, she had painkillers/anti-inflammatories given at the vet but not to take home. She seemed to think it was tummy problems rather than a pain response.

The thing is, she didn't seem all that ill before the first vet visit, and certainly not in huge pain when weeing or anything, and I have seen her wee over the last couple of days and there's no more straining or squeaking, so I feel like I've exchanged a very minor problem for a major problem just by taking her to the vet - I feel quite guilty now that I did the wrong thing.
 
PigTastic said:
Thank you everyone for your continuing advice and interest! I would say she seems similar this morning, I have seen her having a little munch on some hay but she still doesn't look quite like herself. I would be surprised if the vet had given something directly toxic. I went there on recommendation from another piggy person and they are supposedly cavy savvy and good with exotics in general. In fact I drove her over to the next town rather than using my local vet because of this.

Pebble, in answer to your questions:

1. and 2. No, she hasn't had any tests on her urine yet.
3. Yes I am weighing her every day. I haven't weighed her yet today but yesterday she'd lost about 20 or 30g compared to her weight 2 days previously but she was wiggling around in the scales a bit which made it difficult to get an exact reading.
4. I have tried syringe feeding, I am not very good at it, she hates it and wriggles around and spits and most ends up on my lap... But I will keep trying. Do you really mean 20ml every 4 hours? That seems like a lot, I'm not sure I would be able to get that much into her!
5. She did have a gut stimulant given at the vet, but nothing to take home.
6. Yes the vet did pinch her skin and said she's not dehydrated (or at least she wasn't yesterday afternoon).
7. Again, she had painkillers/anti-inflammatories given at the vet but not to take home. She seemed to think it was tummy problems rather than a pain response.

The thing is, she didn't seem all that ill before the first vet visit, and certainly not in huge pain when weeing or anything, and I have seen her wee over the last couple of days and there's no more straining or squeaking, so I feel like I've exchanged a very minor problem for a major problem just by taking her to the vet - I feel quite guilty now that I did the wrong thing.
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Firstly, this is not in any way your fault. Lavendar was uncomfortable when weeing, so you took her to the vet to help. It is all any of us would have done. They are the experts, and we put our trust in them to make our little furbabies better.

I've had a read back through the thread, and I can't actually find any mention of Septrin. Is this correct? It wasn't a Septrin injection as you initially thought, and you haven't been given any Septrin to give at home (sorry if I've got this wrong) So the only antibiotics she has had so far is the initial tetracycline injection?

This is a link with some tips on hand-feeding. http://www.guinealynx.info/handfeeding.html
15-20ml is recommended every 4 hours (including through the night) for a guinea pig that is not eating on its own to help it maintain its body weight. As they usually eat constantly, any reduction in their appetite will result in quite a rapid weight loss if you don't help with the syringe feeding. Syringe-feeding comes with practice, so don't be too disheartened if the first few attempts don't go well.

Bloat/gut stasis can be fatal. Here's some info: http://www.guinealynx.info/emergency.html#bloat
It may be worth speaking to your vet about having some gut stimulants to give at home (any of those mentioned by Pebble above) as these will keep her gut turning over while she is not eating much. Is she still pooing as normal?

Sorry that you and Lavendar are going through this. I hope that she picks up soon x
 
Hello

Sorry to hear Lavender is poorly, i cant help with any of the AB debate, but i can help with syringe feeding, she is clearly battleing the syringe which i should imagine (as i did to start with) finding it emotionally draining, but keep it up, she will fight, but you need to show her who is boss, even if it means using gentle force, i find the easiest way is to sit on the sofa with piggy on my lap and their bum against the arm of the sofa so that they cant really wriggle, using one hand cover the face and hold the jaw with your thumb and index finger and inset the syringe into the mouth and syringe 1/3rd into the mouth, just keep doing this until she realises she is not going to win the battle, you are bigger and stronger than her (and she will realise) and she will soon sit and just do what you guide her to do.

I was in the syringe feeding around the clock situation last year and to begin with it was a battle, but i kept it up and in the end i was glad i did, i probably saved my piggies life by getting that food into him which kept his gut going, maintained his weight, and gave him the strength to fight his illness. Try different things, Burgess Blackcurrant & oregano pellets softened and mashed was more favourable over CC, i also used to mix it with mashed banana which went down well and due to the high calories in the banana was good for weight gain, also banana and porridge mix - both high in calories will be good for the same reason, also dont be afraid to make some veg smoothies to try too.

Good luck, healing vibes to your girl.

x
 
Thanks Toffeewoffee, yes I am very bad at coping with the syringe feeding, I get too upset as it feels so cruel, but I know it needs to be done. She has had some veggies and hay this morning so hopefully she won't need too much critical care! This morning I got my OH to hold her on the sofa while I sat down on the floor so I was kind of underneath her, that way I could find her mouth more easily, she put up with the first 1ml syringe OK but struggled quite violently after that, I think she'd just had enough. I've heard that many piggies prefer the blackcurrant and oregano pellets so I will try that if necessary, I've also ordered some science recovery in case she prefers that over the critical care.

Jerrybelly, I was given oral septrin to start giving her on Friday, but the injection was something different. I'm a bit worried about starting her on the oral stuff to be honest in case it has a similar effect, hopefully she will have picked up a bit more by Friday though.
 
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