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Piggies 'ganging up' - you had to see it to believe it - what to do with Darklis?

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Teejay

Adult Guinea Pig
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Hi there, I have my 5 piggies in two groups; Squeak (castrated boar) with Coco, and Pudding (castrated boar) with Darklis and Popsicle (OH chose that name rolleyes)

Squeak and Coco are best buds, adore each other and got along perfectly from the moment we introduced them. We have no concerns at all about their bonding.

We got Darklis to live with Pudding, but, although they lived together without incident, there seemed to be no interaction whatsoever, they pretty much just ignored each other. So, we made the decision to get another baby sow (Popsicle) to live with Pudding & Darklis, in the hope that Pudding might bond better with a different piggie.

Pudding & Popsicle get along great, but that leaves poor Darklis as the odd-one-out......their cage is normally pretty settled, there's more dominance behaviour than there is between Squeak & Coco, but it's never been particularly worrying.

However, last night, I watched the most bizzarre behaviour.....Pudding & Popsicle actually ganged up to 'surround' Darklis and were really trying to intimidate her, both of them rumbling, teeth chattering, hackles raised, the works (there was no actual fighting, so i didn't intervene and I let it run it's course).

It didn't seem like a co-incidence that they both decided to 'have a go' at the same time, it really seemed like a co-ordinated act. Has anyone ever witnessed this kind of 'pack mentality' behaviour in piggies?

Anyway, since then, I've noticed there's a bit more unrest in their cage......and I'm quite worried about poor Darklis.

She's always been a bit 'special', bless her. She's been checked out for physical problems several times, but the vet and I are convinced she has some sort of congenital neurological problem / brain damage. She's always seemed slightly 'vacant' (not much of a personality), and she occasionally displays a weird head twisting movement, like she's looking at the ceiling with one eye. She twists her head round so much sometimes that she almost falls over, but she only does this when she's being held, never in the cage or when she's having floor time. She eats really well, drinks well, is very vocal at feed times and seems to be a contented piggie, although she's always seemed to be a little bit of a loner.

I suspect that Pudding & Popsicle are rejecting her because she's not 'normal', because she has this problem.

So, what to do......like I say, she seems to be happy enough in with Pud & Popsicle, she's certainly physically thriving, so she's getting plenty to eat and drink, but I can't help wonder if she'd be better off soming out of that group and being introduced to another younger sow (oh, no, more piggie shopping rolleyes).

We've already considered trying to bond her with Squeak & Coco, but we ditched that idea....Squeak & Coco get on so well that it seems unfair to upset that friendship.

Sigh......what do you all think?

Tracey
 
My boar Nemo is a little bit special, he eats well etc just like Darklis but sometimes it's 'lights on and no one's home'. I had a baby boar that I got to befriend one of my other piggies, that didn't work out so I put him in with Nemo. There was very little interaction initially, we weren't even sure Nemo had clocked this new pal but it's been a few weeks now and they are getting along great. Sometimes I think it just takes time. The little one follows Nemo and cries for him when he's gone and in turn Nemo comforts him and teaches him new boar tricks ha ha.

I have heard of like a 2 on 1 mentality being created when you have an uneven number of guinea pigs together. So I can quite believe Darklis has been the target of some unfriendly behaviour. I have 3 sows together but they started as a 4 but then sadly one died and I guess group dynamics were already established and didn't change because it wasn't the dominant sow that passed away. I also have a group of 5, they were a 3 and a 2 that I bonded and only one of them is a bit grumpy so it tends to be fine.

From my perspective I'd probably remove Darklis, bond her with a new friend, possibly introduce the two back into the other group of 4 so that Darklis had some 'back up' or if it works out better 4 and 2, well don't fix what isn't broken. It sounds like the situation with Darklis has been going on a while, I'm going to guess it's not just early teething problems with the group and it probably won't right itself. I don't think you need to remove her right away, if no real fighting is occuring but it's something to consider.
 
You have been meaning well, but by adding Popsicle, you have created a classical outsider situation.

Piggies can gang up on another piggy, especially one that has noticeable weaknesses or is different; it is not particular meanness because in the wild that piggy could be endangering the survival of the group as a whole. If a piggy can prove that it can keep up, then a disability is tolerated and the piggy will get the support of the group as a whole.

Would it be possible to bond Darklis with a very laid back, caring older sow or a timid neutered boar instead if you can get as far a rescue that can try to bond her for you? I have seen mobbing situations in a bigger group, so I am reluctant to recommend that. Trying to bond her with your two others will only repeat the outsider problem. Piggies can really give you a headache, can't they?
 
I've had similar happen before with boars. Todd was ganged up on by Harvey, and his own brother, Oliver.

If she has got something wrong with her brain, which sounds like she clearly has, that will be enough of a reason for them to gang up on her. Although if they're not attacking her, then I wouldn't remove her. Only if they're causing her physical harm would I step in and find her a new cage-mate.
 
Hi There,

I've never witnessed this kind of aggression but I would have to agree with Wiebke - an older gentle girl would possibly be better for her.

I found with my previous Trio that there was a third wheel - the saying 3's a crowd comes to mind, I do think Piggies get on better in pairs or groups. That being said if anything was to happen to one of my pairs I would be bonding them with one of my other pairs, so I wouldn't right Trio's off if they all get along.

It seem's she is a threat to the herd and if I was in a position to add I would do just that by separating Darklis and taking her to a rescue to find a new friend.

x
 
I personally agree with wiebke and flinstones, i would be looking for an older sow who won't see darklis as a threat and will just let her do her special thing, bless her. If she stays where she is, my worry would be that she would be left out and wouldn't be living as fulfilling a life as she could be.

I think an older relaxed sow might be a nice option for her :)
 
Hi all, thanks for your replies. I've been thinking about it and I do think that Pudding is the 'fly in the ointment' to be honest.....he's a bit of a loner himself, ever so slightly grumpy, and really doesn't seem to want to be friends with anyone, human or piggie!

I keep thinking back to when Pudding and Squeak had to be separated (pretty dramatic fighting); Squeak was very stressed on his own, immediately went into a huge decline and became very sick with a URI (we all thought we'd lose him). Pudding couldn't have cared less, I actually think he would've been happy to live on his own.

So even though Pudding seems happier to tolerate Popsicle, he doesn't interact much with her and he's not particularly friendly towards her. In fact, they're rarely in the same place at the same time! They're quite a fragmented group, really.

Hi NatalieMT, bless your Nemo, he sounds lovely! Yes, we've had Darklis since early June, and then we got Popsicle in late July (I think) when it was obvious that Darklis and Pudding just didn't hit it off. I was also thinking that one of my options was to bond Darklis with an older, quiet sow.

Hi Wiebke; yes, I thought long and hard before getting Popsicle, as i was acutely aware I could be creating a 'three's a crowd' situation. Yes, my head hurts! :{

Hi lilmisscavy, no they're not attacking her and she seems to be a contended little thing, just pottering around and doing her own thing.....there's a lot of rumble strutting and a lot of nosing off to each other (all three of them), but no attacking/fighting, just low level dominance behaviour. She's quite a feisty little girl though, despite her 'disability', and she doesn't take it lying down....I actually think that she and Popsicle are tussling for top sow position.

Hi flintstones and gogoguineas, I'm starting to come round to the idea of bonding Darklis with an older, laid-back sow......I'l give it more thought.......and then start looking for a local-ish rescue!

Like I said above, though, she doesn't seem stressed or unhappy at all....she eats like the proverbial pig (:))) and she looks very fit and well......the others don't normally bully her, as such, they all eat their veggies side-by-side, they're happy to share space in the hay loft.....so she's being allowed to live her life like a 'normal' guinea pig.

Apart from not having a closely bonded friend to snuggle up with, all the outward signs would suggest that she's rather contented with her lot in life!

Tracey x
 
I don't believe getting her her own cage-mate is relevant because if she's just getting on with her own thing and content in herself then she's showing all obvious signs she's relaxed and comfortable with the way things are.

Obviously it's completely up to you though.
 
Hi NatalieMT, bless your Nemo, he sounds lovely! Yes, we've had Darklis since early June, and then we got Popsicle in late July (I think) when it was obvious that Darklis and Pudding just didn't hit it off. I was also thinking that one of my options was to bond Darklis with an older, quiet sow.

He's such an old man - he threw personal hygiene out of the window many years ago now. The baby and him come in for baths very regularly because Nemo is longhair, baby watches whilst Nemo is thoroughly shampoo'd. Nemo has been to the vets too and there is nothing terribly apparent wrong with him but he's just not quite all there... Sometimes I really wonder about him but then in some situations I think he behaves like a piggy should. He's got the baby whistling very loudly for food with him now, so he must still be able to learn certain noises like bags rustling. He does scare me a lot though, he's like a 'creaking gate', I will open the hutch, he gives a massive sigh like it's his last breath or something and then just proceeds to turn round at me as if to say 'I'm fine, what you looking at'.

He is lovely, he's just 0% aggressive. My other boar Peanut, who I got the baby for was just way too lively with him. Humping him and pushing him round but Nemo just sat next to him quietly and didn't react so it's been perfect really.

I'd be interested to see Darklis because I don't know if I've ever really read about anyone else having a pig in it's own world! Maybe no one else wants to admit they have a special pig! Good luck in finding a nice, placid sow for Darklis - hopefully it shouldn't be too difficult, I wouldn't have thought you'd need to get a sow that was really considered old, just full grown and a bit more mature.
 
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If she seems fairly content and you're just worried she doesn't have a snuggle buddy do you think a cuddly toy might be all she needs? Just something soft and cosy to curl up with? Just a thought. :)
 
Aw Natalie, Nemo really sounds lovely! x) I like the 'special' ones....:))

With my little Darklis, one day I find myself feeling really worried about her being 'picked on', cos she seems to always be on the receiving end of any dominance behaviour / intimidation (from both Pudding and from Popsicle), and then I swing all the way over to thinking she's content and living as normal a life as possible in the circumstances.

She certainly doesn't seem to be particularly bothered by the excessive dominance behaviour.....one of the other two has a little stand-off with her, which she deals with, then she just gets back to doing what piggies do....eating, sleeping, eating, sleeping, eating......LOL!

I think I was more shocked yesterday by the whole 'ganging up' thing I witnessed....that was a new one on me! And it seemed (to me) to be so very intimidating for poor Darklis - I wanted to rescue her, but I knew i had to let it run it's course for as long as possible, so I did and they got over it after a couple of minutes without any actual fighting.

I'm a bit sensitive about little Darklis......she always looks like she doesn't quite 'belong', but then again, as I've said, there are no outward signs she's unhappy/stressed, so maybe I'm just being too soppy!
 
If she seems fairly content and you're just worried she doesn't have a snuggle buddy do you think a cuddly toy might be all she needs? Just something soft and cosy to curl up with?

Great idea and definitely worth trying, but I suspect one of the others may well pinch it from under her nose!
 
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