Please help - 4yr old girls, bond broken?!

[Dottygirls]

Hi,
We have 2 sows who we’ve had since they were 6 months old. They are sisters and have always got on great. They’re over 4 years old now. I posted a few months ago about them having a falling out and one biting the ear of the other. I separated them, had them checked out by the vet and kept them in adjacent living spaces. They seemed to be pining for each other (sleeping next to the barrier and one even trying to get through the barrier with her teeth!) so we attempted rebonding. It was a breeze. They got on just as well as before - problem solved.

Now we’re back to square one. They suddenly started fighting out of nowhere two days ago and there would have been blood drawn if I hadn’t intervened. No injuries. I separated them for 24 hours then in a completely clean and neutral space attempted rebonding. It seemed to work for a few hours but then the teeth chattering started and though they didn’t fight it just went on and on and they seemed very unhappy. They weren’t eating, just facing each other down all the time.

I have separated them again but if their bond is broken I don’t know what to do. I have a bespoke cage that’s around 180cm by 60cm. I’ve currently divided it in two. But that doesn’t feel like enough space for each of them. But also I can’t expand as that’s all the space I have in the room (without blocking the door or the window).

And can two girls really just live side by side anyway? I would consider getting them new friends and try to construct another space on the floor underneath the current cage but my impression is it would be hard to bond older females to new pigs. Is that right?

What can I do and if they do need to live side by side does anyone have any advice for creating adequate living space for both of them? Any creative solutions? I’m so sad as they’re a beautiful pair. Thank you.

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

I'm sorry, it does sound to me as if their bond is absolutely broken, for whatever reason. Since being on the forum I have learnt that the behaviour of guineas at the barrier when living side by side is not indicative of a good bond or bond fail. Looking as if they want to get in with each other can actually be territorial.

For your other questions I hope somebody more knowledgeable will get back to you tomorrow. Most members are in the UK and asleep apart from the odd night owl.

 

[Janey]

Sorry you’re going through this again. I’ve just had a quick read through your previous post. It is very possible for them to live as neighbours with a divider to separate them; it will provide them with enough companionship providing they can see and smell each other. As @Piggies&buns mentioned previously, they would need a 3x2 sized space each. Sorry I don’t have any creative ideas on creating a suitable space but if the space underneath the table would work, then that sounds like a good option.

It’s possible that they could find another friend each too, but that could potentially make things more stressful for you, given you’re already dealing with this situation. If you do decide to do this, your best option would be to find a rescue that will allow them to choose who they like - sometimes known as speed dating.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m so sorry to hear this.

It does sound like their bond is over.
Laying at the divider together is usually territory marking behaviour rather than a desire to be together for friendly reasons.

Yes they can be very happy side by side. It provides interaction without having to share territory.

Unfortunately, as you have noted, their cage split in half isn’t big enough - it’s only providing 90x60cm each which is below requirement. Each piggy needs a minimum space of 120x60cm so you are going to need to create more space for them to be side by side .

Older sows can be a little trickier to bond (they can become a bit grumpy about be company) with a new friend but it doesn’t mean it’s impossible - they may both be very happy to accept a baby for example.
If you are going to get a new friend for each the. We would advise you do it with the help of a rescue. if the bonding fails they will be able to assist you by taking the new piggy back and trying another until you find a match. You don’t want to buy from a shop for example, and then the bond fails and you end up in a situation with up to four single piggies

 

[Truffolo]

Sometimes females become more territorial as a result of hormone changes caused by ovarian cysts. Crusty nipples can be a sign that they are developing ovarian problems and it's worth checking the skin on their nipples to see if it is dry and crusty. A vet check could be useful to palpate for cysts. A very large proportion of sows develop cysts and they can cause them to start to display more dominant "male" behaviour which could upset the established hierarchy. Cysts can be treated, so it is well worth checking for them

 

[AidaB]

Sorry to hear your girls have fallen out.

Our boys live side by side, in a bit of a wonky shaped arrangement, using CC grids. To maximise the space we have & the space they need.

Could you use CC grids, to make an L shape or add on an extension to your current set up with grids without compromising the way to your door?

 

[Dottygirls]

Thank you so much everyone for your replies. I’m look at possibilities for an L shape. It would block the window but I’ll have to live with that. I just feel worried they will be miserable without being able to interact directly with another pig but I suppose time will tell.

In terms of being next to each other do their spaces need to touch? I imagine they need to be close as their eyesight is not great.

Thank you.

 

[Piggies&buns]

If they can’t get on then actually they will be happier apart - the stress of having to share a territory is removed.
I have happily separated boars! They fell out with a fight at 18 weeks old. They’ve been neighbours for a few years now.

Yes cages touching is best. A few centimetres between the cages is fine if needed to make it fit, but touching is best

 

[Wiebke]

Hi

Please have your sows checked for ovarian cysts. Sows can fall out but it is much rarer than with boars; if it does in established pairs then it is usually due to a hormone spike from a cyst bring an already underlying rift to the fore again. Best keep them as neighbours, each with her own territory.

It's happened with my feuding rescue sisters Hapis (Happy) and Llawen (Merry) who never lived to up to their hopeful names - admittedly, they came out of a true hellhole of a place at about the same age when ovarian cysts added extra fuel to their issues.

However in very old age, once they had both survived all their last companions, Llawen (who never accepted any piggy she hadn't bonded before 6 months; thankfully, there were two groups of them) finally accepted to move back in with her nearly 7 years old sister and 7 years old widow Hyfryd (when the need for companionship finally outweighed any other considerations for a few last months...

 

[Dottygirls]

Is there anything other than cysts that could cause them to suddenly fall out? I will get them checked out.

Does anyone have any pictures of piggies living separately but alongside one another? Thank you.

 

[Dottygirls]

And would it really be worth trying to bond them separately with other pigs? How realistic is that? Are females or neutered boars the best bet? Thanks.

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

Are females or neutered boars the best bet?

Character compatibility is the big deciding point. Past a certain point in my guinea career, I always had a neutered boar in with one or two girls because German rescues push that. I rarely had a compatibility problem. Mind you, my local rescue was often a really good judge of which of her guineas whether a sow or neutered boar would fit in with my group.
Adding a baby guinea can be good because generally a baby will be accepted, whether neutered boar or little sow.

And would it really be worth trying to bond them separately with other pigs?

Probably best to find out first whether there's a health problem like ovarian cysts, because that will affect decisions going forward I would think.

 

[AidaB]

Does anyone have any pictures of piggies living separately but alongside one another? Thank you.

Here’s an old photo, of Hamish & Billy living next to each other.

 

[Janey]

Does anyone have any pictures of piggies living separately but alongside one another? Thank you.

 

[Dottygirls]

Well I had to dismantle my desk (that’s a problem to be solved before Monday!) and relocate them to the floor but for now I’ve got something that’s an okay size at least. They seem happy.