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Poor Nibbler has diarrhea

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Subsonica

Subsonica

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So this morning when I went downstairs, the guinea pigs were already up and about, except Nibbler. She usually comes to the side of the cage expecting something, but this morning she didn't. I found her huddled up in one of the hideys. I noticed that her rear end was wet, so picked her up to find it was smothered in diarrhea and that where she had been lying had diarrhea too.

I've been holding her for the past half hour, and she just doesn't seem herself, she just sits there with her fur ruffled. I'm just waiting for the vets to open so I can get her booked in, though I hope this is just a case of her gorging on too much veg. With there being 4 piggies in the cage now, I've found that Nibbler and Leila rush down their veg to make sure they get more than anyone else. I also weighed her this morning, she has lost about 100g. :(

Is there anything I can do to help her in the meantime?
 
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Fluids! Get water into her and offer her some small pieces of hay. I'm on my mobile and I'm out di can't help more. Go onto the guinea lynx site they have good advice on there also. Ring emergency vets for advice too. You could mash up pellets with water and syringe. Good luck xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
Thanks glynnis, she's chomping on some cucumber at the moment. Going to put her back in the cage for a bit as her her appt isn't till 9:50, I'll make sure there's plenty of fresh hay and water in there. Just wondering if it could be the hay that's actually caused it. I moved all my put supplies into the sunroom, it gets quite warm in there during the day. The other 3 don't seem affected though.

My other half is getting some more hay on his way home to be on the safe side.
 
When my pig had diarrhoea they told me to cut all wet veg and just give hay and water. Hope Nibbler is ok x
 
I was just watching her poop, although it's not runny it is very soft, and she looked like she was struggling. She was also making an odd noise at the same time. Poor thing.
 
That's us just back. She was initially given some Metacam for the discomfort and I think some Metoclopromide to help her digestion. The vet was going to prescribe some Baytril too. I asked her to do a fecal float while I waited, and I'm glad I did (she was going to throw the sample I took with me in the bin!).

She said she found Coccidiosis, and the likelihood is that they were already present, but something has upset her stomach and "set them off rampant" so to speak. The only medication they had for treating this is designed for 50+ kilo horses, so she is contacting an exotic vet she knows to see how best to treat it.

In the meantime, I'm off to give the cage a thorough clean and section some of it off so I can keep Nibbler separate from the others. Does anyone know how long she will need to be quarantined for please, or even how long this can take to clear once she is on the medication? I can't believe this is happening, I've heard some horror stories about Coccidiosis. 8...
 
I am sorry to hear Nibbler is poorly. I really hope she gets better soon.
 
She's now been prescribed Septrin, 0.58ml once a day. It's the one that smells like bananas.

I read somewhere that I need to give her a probiotic if she's on Septrin, why is this and what's the best form of probiotic for her please?
 
I'm so sorry to hear about Nibbler. RE: probiotics, I'm going to tell you what my exotics vet advised, but I have not seen it mentioned on the forum before so feel free to wait for other advice / ask your own vet. When Clive had runny poos due to antibiotics we were told to get some plain, no flavour, no sugar probiotic yoghurt and syringe feed him that (I can't remember the amounts sorry, but it was only a little at a time). The liquidy bit at the top has the most probiotic in it. Clive had his yoghurt for a few days and fully recovered - our vet never suggested the medical probiotics I've seen mentioned on here. In the dark days of Clive's illness, syringe feeding him yoghurt was one of the happy bits - he absolutely loved it.

I'm curious if anyone else has been advised yoghurt by their vet?
 
Thanks for the suggestion, I'm just a little cautious because I don't want to make the situation worse for her if she reacts to the lactose in yoghurt. I know how bad it can be when I react to it, so I can't imagine what it's like being so small! inbreeding
 
Subsonica said:
Thanks for the suggestion, I'm just a little cautious because I don't want to make the situation worse for her if she reacts to the lactose in yoghurt. I know how bad it can be when I react to it, so I can't imagine what it's like being so small! inbreeding
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I know what you mean, even though a vet told me to do it, I was very cautious about mentioning it on here! If any admins want to delete that post, please do so.
 
Poo soup is an excellent probiotic. Get a poo off a healthy piggie and add a little water and mush it up, syringe feed this to Nibbler, this will help give their tummy some good bacteria. Our vet swears by poo soup and we use it along with a probiotic call fibreplex - which also contains fibre to help firm up poo's. http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-suppl...ibreplex-for-rabbits-and-small-rodents-p-1180

We also use Avi-pro plus, which the piggies love the taste of but when dealing with wet poo, I would reach for Fibreplex. Always useful to have some to hand.

Hope Nibbler gets well soon x
 
Thank you! I have seen "pee soup" mentioned before, so I will have to pick-a-piggie and hope they don't think I'm being too wierd with my poo-napping. :))

Think I'm going to order some of that Fibreplex too, like you say, it's useful to have stuff like this on hand.
 
Well done on asking for a feacal float - coccidiosis is life threatening and the fact it has been diagnosed so quickly is a credit to you and your vet.

Ref: suitable probioitics - Piggies are herbivores and lactose intolerant. Natural live yoghurt is therefore not suitable - it contains different types of bugs to those that normally inhabit a piggie's guts. Fibreplex, Avipro or other herbivore pro-biotic (often containing the yeast saccharomyces as the main costitutent) are more suitable. I would not try poop soup in this case as your other piggies may be infected.

Preventing deydration is essential - diarolyte (blackcurrent flavour) from any main supermarket should be made up and a bowl left in your piggies cage and also you should be syringe feeding 5-10ml every 1-2 hours.

Coccodisis is difficut to get rid off and HIGHLY INFECTIOUS. As your other pigies have been exposed to the diarrhoes and are therefore at risk, you should consider treating all your piggies with the medicine the vet decides upon.

Ref: Meds - Australian cavy sanctuary recommend 4ml of piglet strength baytrox. I have also read that tribrissen (or paediatric septrin) can be effective against coccidiosis but am not sure of the strength.

Disinfection is difficult as it is the oocysts that transmit the disease and they are resistant to most normal disinfectants. Australian cavy sanctuary recommend disinfection firstly with strong bleach followed by ammonia solution.

Finally it is important to understamd where this bug might have come from in order to prevent re-infection in the future. Are your piggies in contact with poultry?

Here's a post I made a couple of years ago on the subject

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=836831&postcount=5

And here's the link to the Australian Cavy Sanctuary article

http://www.australiancavysanctuary.com/guineapigcarediarreah.html


Fluid and food support during this actve stage of the infection is vital but strict hygiene is also imperative to prevent re-infection or infection of your other piggies.

Hope this helps

x
 
Pebble said:
Well done on asking for a feacal float - coccidiosis is life threatening and the fact it has been diagnosed so quickly is a credit to you and your vet.

Ref: suitable probioitics - Piggies are herbivores and lactose intolerant. Natural live yoghurt is therefore not suitable - it contains different types of bugs to those that normally inhabit a piggie's guts. Fibreplex, Avipro or other herbivore pro-biotic (often containing the yeast saccharomyces as the main costitutent) are more suitable. I would not try poop soup in this case as your other piggies may be infected.

Preventing deydration is essential - diarolyte (blackcurrent flavour) from any main supermarket should be made up and a bowl left in your piggies cage and also you should be syringe feeding 5-10ml every 1-2 hours.

Coccodisis is difficut to get rid off and HIGHLY INFECTIOUS. As your other pigies have been exposed to the diarrhoes and are therefore at risk, you should consider treating all your piggies with the medicine the vet decides upon.

Ref: Meds - Australian cavy sanctuary recommend 4ml of piglet strength baytrox. I have also read that tribrissen (or paediatric septrin) can be effective against coccidiosis but am not sure of the strength.

Disinfection is difficult as it is the oocysts that transmit the disease and they are resistant to most normal disinfectants. Australian cavy sanctuary recommend disinfection firstly with strong bleach followed by ammonia solution.

Finally it is important to understamd where this bug might have come from in order to prevent re-infection in the future. Are your piggies in contact with poultry?

Here's a post I made a couple of years ago on the subject

http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=836831&postcount=5

And here's the link to the Australian Cavy Sanctuary article

http://www.australiancavysanctuary.com/guineapigcarediarreah.html


Fluid and food support during this actve stage of the infection is vital but strict hygiene is also imperative to prevent re-infection or infection of your other piggies.

Hope this helps

x
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Wow, thanks for this really informative reply!

I have no idea where this could have come from, as they haven't been in contact with poultry at all. I'm quite obsessive about washing my hands, and have a separate chopping board for the piggies veg. The vet suggested that they could have just been laying dormant and that something has upset her tummy and triggered them, but then she isn't an exotic vet, our nearest exotic vet is over 40 miles away, which is difficult to get to up these parts with the lack of public transport and me not driving.

I'm still a little dubious that this is even what it is to be honest, as none of the others seem to be affected and they all have exactly the same access to food, hay, veg, and water. Given the incubation period for the infection, surely more of them would be showing symptoms too. Another pointer is that Nibbler is fine, she's just quiet and had the soft poops. She is still eating hay and pellets, and she's even been at the water bottle, so dehydration isn't a worry. Part of her being quiet is going to be because she is apart from Leila, they've been closely bonded long before the 4 of them were put in together.

I'm wondering, can stress be a contributing factor? Our neutered boy, Hermes, was introduced to them recently. We did introductions properly over a number of weeks, and he finally went in with them just this weekend. He's done nothing but try to mate with them (note that he IS neutered). The girls are forever telling him off, and as much as the sound can be quite distressing to me, I know it's perfectly normal while they sort themselves out.

She has been given Septrin, and going by what I can find about the thick banana smelling type, it is the paediatric one. I fished out our old 120 cage and gave it a good clean before putting her in it to quarantine her, and I'm in the process of giving the main cage a good clean out too.

Sorry, my head is in such a tizzle over all this! :red
 
It is highly probable that our piggies are exposed to many nasty bugs such as parasites, fungi, viruses and bacteria on a routine basis just as we humans are. Most of the time their immune system can cope with the odd exposure but an "opportunity" arises if the piggie is "below par" and the bug manages to take hold and cause an actve infection. This is why incubation periods and carrier statuses exist so unless all your pigs had been exposed to a "large-dose single source" then they may not be showing signs.....YET! But having been exposed to contaiminated guinea pig poops, there is now a risk and you need to be aware of it and watch for any signs/symptoms in the future and commmunicate the previous exposure to your vet if the need arises.

The vets explanation of it being "dormant" is reasonable if there is not another readily identifiable cause such as being "suddenly" exposed to a single source (e.g. by grazing on grass contiminated with faeces from poultry, rabbits, wood pigeons or other wild animals that could be carrying the disease). It "could" be that the stress of introducing Hermes (and/or he could be carrying it?) might be a factor. Alternatively Pre-packed or organic veggies might have been the source at some point?

Given what you have said I think it is going to be difficult to identify the source/cause of the infection and so my above comments are purely speculative.

However, the fact that your vet identified coccidia from a faecal float means I think it's extremely reasonable to assume that is the cause of her (i.e. Nibbler's!) current gut problems. I have never had coccidia (or any other parasite/worm etc) identified in my piggies faecal floats over the years......so I think your vet's find is "significant".

Yes the banana septrin is the paediatric one and the fact she is on it is very good news. What dose is she being given and how much does she weigh? Please talk to your vet about giving it to all of them as a "prophylactic" (preventative) measure.

Re metoclopromide - although this is gut stimulant and will help she may be better on zan-tac (ranit-idine) at 2-4mg/kg (or on both) as when my piggies have soft poops it is zan-tac which seems to help most as it acts on the hind gut whereas metoclop acts on the foregut.

Think that covers it for now - if you want a chat over the phone (sometimes it;s easier than posting on a forum) - then please PM me for my phone number.

It does sound like you and your vet have this under control - well done!

x
 
Subsonica said:
She's now been prescribed Septrin, 0.58ml once a day. It's the one that smells like bananas.

I read somewhere that I need to give her a probiotic if she's on Septrin, why is this and what's the best form of probiotic for her please?
Click to expand...


On the question of pro-biotic, fiberplex seams to be by general consensus, the best for poo problems and you can get it online, but one of my girls has just started a 2 week course of Baytril and I was afraid to wait too long so I got her one from Pet@Home, I know no one likes to use them, and I'm no fan of the dreadful place, but in an emergency I did it, well to be honest I actually said "I can't go into THAT place" and made my Hubby go :red, so if you've got one near it is an instant option, even if it's just to have while you wait for the better stuff to arrive.
 
Nibbler had her first dose of the Septrin last night, it was quite distressing, I've never heard her squeal so loudly before when I syringed the medicine into her mouth, even though I did it a tiny bit at a time. It didn't stop her coming to the side of her cage to beg for her veggie meal though! She seemed a lot brighter when I held her and weighed her this morning, not quite full of beans, but certainly a bit more of her nosey old self there. She's not lost any more weight, so that's got to be a good sign.

She is getting out and about in her cage, seems to be drinking fine etc. She is eating, though her appetite isn't quite what it would normally be like; she normally wolfs down her veggies, but there was still a bit left in there this morning that I removed. I'm guessing she's maybe just feeling a little sensitive still. She is nibbling at hay too, she has a big mound by her food bowl, but I keep moving some nearer her hidey to encourage her to eat more.

Her poops are still soft and keep sticking together in clumps, but are certainly a lot more formed than yesterday, not quite pellet shaped yet though.

I also weighed my other piggies, they're all still of a healthy weight, even Nibbler. Hermes has lost a small amount, but that's probably down to him not being used to having to share food with others, so he's still a little wary and probably not getting as much as he used to yet. Leila is around the same, but her weight has always fluctuated between about 950-980g. Amy has gained weight, which I'm pleased about because she is still very young at about 11 weeks old. I can still hold her in one hand comfortably, so she is still tiny, but somehow she weighs just over 500g! All had clean bottoms too including Nibbler. ^)
 
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Hope Nibbler is feeling better soon!

I've found now that the best way to get meds into Tiffy our poorly pig, is to wrap a small piece of spinach around the end of the syringe. She goes for it with such gusto that the whole spout (if that's the right word?!) is in her mouth and we can squeeze bits of med into her mouth, we can get about .25ml into her at a time, which is luckily her whole dose! She'll even take it at the bars now!

Might be worth a try if medicine time is becoming a little traumatic!
 
MandFpiggies said:
On the question of pro-biotic, fiberplex seams to be by general consensus, the best for poo problems and you can get it online, but one of my girls has just started a 2 week course of Baytril and I was afraid to wait too long so I got her one from Pet@Home, I know no one likes to use them, and I'm no fan of the dreadful place, but in an emergency I did it, well to be honest I actually said "I can't go into THAT place" and made my Hubby go :red, so if you've got one near it is an instant option, even if it's just to have while you wait for the better stuff to arrive.
Click to expand...

I did that to , as much as it pained me to spend money in there but needs must
 
A quick update!

It's been over a week now; Nibbler has been recovering well. Her poops went back to normal within a few days, but she has remained quarantined to be safe. She hasn't quite finished her Septrin yet, think there's one or two more doses in there. The first time I gave it her she squealed really loudly at having something being put in her mouth, but ever since then she's taken it willingly, and often won't let the syringe go because she wants more! rolleyes

She's definitely eating, though not as much as she would normally, but I think that's more to do with her not being in with her friends at the moment. It means that her weight keeps fluctuating, though it's still at a healthy 975-990g. I feel so bad because they are always up at the side of the bars trying to get to each other, as I put her hospital cage next to the main one. She'll soon put her weight back on when she goes back in.
 
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