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Poorly Guinea Pigs - Only Had Them 5 Days!

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Firstly - re the baytril dosage - I would need to know their weights to fully comment on effective dosage please? But as your hubby is a pharmacist, hopefully the following info will help.

According to the BSAVA Small Animal Formulary, 2007 (I don;t have a later version ) the recommended oral dose range for baytril at that time in rabbits was 10-30mg/kg per 24hr and in rats was 5-10mg/kg every 12hours
Most cavy savvy vets opt for the rabbit dose rather than the rat dose because guinea pigs have a fast metabolism.
So for 2.5% solution (the normal prescription) this equates to 25mg/ml.
However on some RARE occasions vets have prescribed the 10% solution which would equate to a concentration of 100mg/ml.

As your pigs are youngsters I am going to assume they weigh 500g (and that hubby can work out the dose range from there dependent upon their actual weights)


For a 500g pig - an effective baytril dose using the LOWEST rabbit range (10mg/kg once daily) would be:
0.2ml of 2.5% once daily or 0.125ml twice daily
and
0.05ml once daily or 0.025ml twice daily for 10%:

It therefore appears to me your guinea piggies are on a very "conservative" dosage. If my maths adds up then I think you need to consider finding a more cavy-savvy vet!

Secondly - I would like to make it very clear from my long experience of dealing with URI's in MANY guinea pigs that the ONLY time me and my vets have PTS a URI piggie is one who developed a very sudden infection (we think viral rather than bacterial) that produced so much fluid in their lungs literally overnight and to such an extent that a diuretic such as frusemide would not help quickly enough and it was kinder to put the piggie to sleep (who literally has fluid dribbling out of his nose and mouth, was gasping for breath and couldn't even swallow).

Prompt prescription of antibiotics, willingness to advise/prescribe supportive meds such as gut stimulants (emeprid/metoclopromide, zantac and preferably also cisapride) , diuretics (fruseamide) and anti-mucolytics (bi-solven) by the vet as well as provision of supportive syringe feeding everry 4 hrs by the slave if necessary can/are all part of "a successful care package" to successfully cure a URI in piggies.

Thirdly - we have discovered over the years (from microbial cultures of all my own pigs) that two of the main "URI" bugs (Staph and Strep) have developed resistance to baytril and septrin. Our first port of call now with my piggies is Doxycycline - this is also important because of the fourth point below.

Fourthly - it would appear from recent posts on this forum that there may be a possible Chlamydia issue at an organisation(s) that supplies a certain leading pet store with baby guinea pigs. This causes respiratory symptoms and eye issues. If your piggies have a chlamydia infection, then baytril will not work so Doxycycline should be considered instead.
Here's a recent thread:

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/chlamydia-advice.127200/#post-1741931

HTH
x
 
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Thank you so much for your extensive advice @Pebble . It is very reassuring to hear your experiences. Interesting point about the chlamydia too. The problem I now face is that I've seen three different vets, including one from the guinea pig savvy list and no one seems willing to go beyond baytril and bi-solven. I have no idea where to turn now to get the medication these piggies need to get better. Sven weights 385g and Olaf is about 420g. I hope they aren't too little to fight off this infection.
 
The vet locator list started with very high standards ( I provided a lot of the data at the time\) Sadly, as is often the case on a public forum it has expanded but also diluted to include vets recommended purely on the basis of cost/niceness rather than guaranteed/validated medical expertise with pigges,..

I applaud your sentiments that these young piggies deserve the best chance! Given their weights thy should EASILY be able to sort this infection with appropriate care.

Assuming none of your Shropshire vets will even consider the possibility of diuretics/supportive care/gut meds for a simple guinea pig respiratory infection then I think your best bet is Manor vets at Edgbaston practice in Birmingham . If you cannot get to Manor vet on a regular basis, would you consider lodging them on a temporary resident basis with someone who can provide the veterinary and supportive care they need?

x
 
Sorry to read about your sick piggies! That really is such bad luck : ( Our own 4 young girly pigs ( 2 were from Petsathome) had to have meds 4 wks after bringing them home - they had been exposed to our older piggie Gloria - who suddenly died of pneumonia & they all developed crusty eye & a couple were sneezing! ( it was a very worrying & stressful time!) The piggies were on antibiotics 2 x daily & eye cream. To cut a long story short!...I found it easier to carry each piggie or two together for company, in my own make shift snuggle sack - a fleece blanket folded inside the pillowcase & then the front folded over to create a large cuff at the opening. Being transported to my lap this way the piggies felt safer & were nicely cocooned in their make shift cave, while having their meds 2 x day & being rewarded some leafy veg treats at the same time! Our baby piggie (who is the bravest & first to do anything!) even came up to me in her cage to take the meds directly from the syringe by the end of the week! ( still cant believe it!) although it was banana flavoured meds! -and they all recovered. So hang in there - you are doing your best for those piggies! Thinking of you & hope your piggies make a speedy recovery! Best of luck! X
 
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Thank you @Pebble . Unfortunately we aren't in a position to get the piggies to edgbaston regularly. We live over an hour away. I would consider lodging them with somebody, but I hadn't thought about it before. What are the cost implications? There is a vet near by, who a friend says is more receptive to suggestions of alternative treatment. I will give them a call tomorrow and see what they say. In the mean time there is no change in the boys...they are eating fine, active, but still sneezing.

@Cavywavy you say that your piggies were on meds for four weeks? Was it baytril? I'm just wondering if, as they have been on this for over two weeks and they seem to have recovered to some extent but not fully, whether they will ever recover on baytril alone. It is very stressful - I just want to get them right, as they really are lovely little things and are very affectionate.
 
Sorry - that was my bad punctuation - illness had developed 4 weeks after bringing them home. They had meds 2xdaily for 1 week only, I think it was called Septrin which was labelled as a paediatric medicine.
 
ah, I see! I'm glad yours got better...I'm still living in hope. My hubby has just stumbled across a recommended vet 40 mins away, who a guinea pig sanctuary use. i'm going to phone them tomorrow morning and see if they can help.
 
Good luck. I really admire you and the effort you are putting into your little piggies.
 
Fingers crossed for a positive prognosis! Best of luck to you & your piggies!
 
Thanks for asking @Kerrie74. We haven't yet managed to get them to the other vet. However, they are sneezing less by the day. We upped their dose of baytril slightly and I think it's working a bit better. We are still going to get in touch and see the recommended vet though as I think they probably won't beat it totally. Both boys are currently running around their indoor run inside paper bags having fun.
 
Ahh ok. Well it's worth a try isn't it :) My guinea who we had to have pts due to bladder stones had several UTI's and ear infections last year, he was a little fighter. We only lost him because he was let down by vets, same as our other guinea :/
 
Update: I've managed to get an appointment at Willow Vets near Stoke on Trent on Monday evening, so hopefully they will be able to give me a bit more reassurance. They seem to be more knowledgeable and I know that a rescue centre for guinea pigs uses them, so fingers crossed!
 
Oooh good luck, hope they can get it sorted xx
 
@Kerrie74 Thank you for the recommendation for the hay. I ordered some Ings Hay from the website you recommended and I cannot believe the difference between that and the bagged rubbish I was giving them. It was so dusty, I just hadn't realised, not having seen "good" hay. This hay is lovely, with lots of green! The boys love it!
 
They are really good with the delivery too, our guinea's love the Ings hay. It has helped with my allergies as well... well I say that, just this past week I've been experiencing a swollen throat which I thought was the antibiotics I was on, but I stopped taking them and my throat is still swelling in the morning, so I'm on over the counter antihistamines atm, I now think it's related to the council doing people gardens here, I didn't realise I had that much of a problem, I've only lived here since Feb :doh: Never mind, I should be able to get my normal antihistamines from the Dr's next week and I may well go to the drop in center if my throat keeps swelling.

Good luck with the boys appointment on Monday, I hope it's something that can be sorted out.
 
UPDATE...
Drove Olaf and Sven to a vet an hour away today, and it was worth the drive. The vet knew about guinea pigs (hurrah!). However, bad news was that we had been on too low a dose of the baytril to really make a significant impact and had probably encouraged whatever bug is causing the sneezes to become resistant. Good news is that he has given them septrin and another anti-biotic beginning with t (he didn't have any left so is getting some sent to me tomorrow, hence why I can't remember the name). He said there isn't any reason why they shouldnt overcome it, but that it depends on what's causing it. He has given us more options anyway.

I need to get them some vit C supplement. Can anybody recommend?
 
Woohoo good news about the piggies.

I bought some Oxbow Vit C's but when they are on antibiotics I give them Avipro plus which has Vit C anyway.
 
As I previously stated on page 4 of this thread, the baytril dose was low. Good your vet has decided to take action and understands about generation of anitbiotic resistance.

Septrin is a good alternative to baytril in your situation and I suspect the "t" is tetracycline - another good choice as they are also covering for possible mycoplsama infection and it is very rare to find bugs in piggies that are resistant to this drug.....(even in my herd!).

The prognosis is good providing you provide them with any supportive care they may need to keep food going in and poos coming out (ie syringe feeding and gut motility meds)
x
 
That's exactly what he said @Pebble. So glad I found someone who knows what they are talking about. I've been giving them ProC anyway, do you think that will be enough vit c?

I asked about adverse reaction, and his advice was that if they stopped eating that I stop the meds for a day? Fingers crossed, so far they are continuing to eat and are normal.
 
Lisa.Griff said:
*** UPDATE *****
Hi All. So Olaf and Sven have been on anti-bios for two weeks now. Olaf's eye has cleared up and both boys are putting on lots of weight, have lots of energy etc. They have been to two different guinea pig vets. We contacted Pets at Home, who agreed to pay our vets fees (by now well over £100) and invited us to bring them to their vet to be checked over. Both boys are still sneezing and have wet noses. I knew that the vet I was seeing wouldn't give them any more anti-bios, so thought no harm in taking them to p@h. The vet there said that she can give another week's worth of anti-biotics, but that it looks like Olaf and Sven were unlikely to overcome the infection :(. She has suggested that unless they are "markedly improved" next week, it might be kinder to put them to sleep. It's so unfair. They look healthy except for the sneezing, and their lungs are clear. As I said, Olaf's eye is better and there's no crust on their noses. Feeling really upset about it as I've grown really attached to them and our daughter has formed a real bond with them.
Does anyone have any miraculous tales of recovery?
I'm also feeling annoyed. The Vets [you]IN[/you] p@h said that unfortunately these infections are very common given the way so many are transported and housed together. Brilliant. These were our first family pets, and the whole experience has been totally ruined. I'm angry that they think it's acceptable that the way they treat their animals results in them getting fatal illnesses. I appreciate that they have paid the vets bills, but we have shelled out time, money and energy into preparing for these pets, buying them, taking them to a suitable vet (20 minute drive away) four times in two weeks. Not to mention the emotional heartache of having two poorly pets, which is by far the worst part of the lot. Sorry for the rant. Feeling emotionally drained and very frustrated.
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gosh i do feel for you and really hope they pull through xx
 
ANOTHER Update! So, Sven and Olaf were taken off the baytril and put on Septrin for a week. This made them worse. Then they had Tylan and the vet upped the baytril and septrin. Of course, then they stopped eating and pooing. I hand-fed them and we got them to the vets today. They have kept them in tonight and are giving them something to get their guts going again. This has been going on so long now, I'm emotionally drained and have no idea if they are going to make it or not. The guinea-savvy vet wasn't there when we dropped them off and the nurse seemed to think they would be fine once they got their guts going again, so who knows?
:-(
 
Poor boys are really going through it. Keeping everything crossed for them.
 
Have you tried fibre plex? BonBon has responded well since going on that. It's really hard when a vet gets it wrong through lack of knowledge.
 
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