Possible bladder stone or UTI?

[paulsin]

Hi,

Apologies as I havnt posted in awhile, but I have some concerns over one of my piggies George. We noticed last Monday that he seemed in pain while defecating and weeing and that his wee was red. We took him to the vets on the Tuesday as we thought it was either bladder stone or a UTI infection. The vet seemed fairly competent with their knowledge of guinea pig and had a really good poke (dig) around his bladder and he didn’t seem in much discomfort (other than the obvious prodding that is) so she gave him 0.2ml of baytrill and gave us 5 more needles for us to inject him once a day. We managed to get Wednesday’s injection in him and he seemed to perk up a bit but then missed him with Thursdays and Friday mornings and he seemed to get worse again. We took him to another vets on Friday evening for an injection and to ask for the baytrill oral solution. She had another poke around and again didn’t think it would be bladder stone as he wasn’t showing any signs of pain. She gave him a 0.2ml baytrill injection and gave us 2.5% baytrill solution to give 0.4ml twice daily. We tried to get another injection in him on the Sat and missed with some but not sure how much so gave him 0.2 ml oral solution later in the evening. We also gave him some recovery food as he has lost some weight- weighs about 1100g and used to weigh 1300 a few months ago, so gave it him as a top up. He ate loads of it, but that evening seemed in real discomfort when passing his poo and was weeking A LOT. My girlfriend tried to cuddle him but he just kept moving his bum around – we checked for an impaction earlier and could see anything. We were concerned he wouldn’t make it through the night but Sunday morning he seemed better. Sunday morning we gave up on the injections and gave him 0.4ml oral in the morning and later in the day. In the evening he seemed much much better – ate loads, was eating pellets again and had 2 romaine lettuce leaves, half a cherry tomato, a handful of grass and some green pepper. We felt a lot better especially after the nightmare on Sat night. I came to give him his oral solution this morning, and I think I woke him up to do it *** he looked a bit dishevelled. I got his solution in him and he ate a romaine lettuce leaf, some green pepper and some more grass but just didn’t seem as keen.
Basically I’m just wondering if this is signs of a UTI or bladder stone, we are going to persist with the baytrill until maybe Wednesday morning and take him to the vets for an x-ray then if he is no better, but want to give the baytrill chance to work as he has had broken treatment with it up until recently. He seems ok in himself most of the time – interested in food but just not eating as much. For info his weight seems to have stayed at about 1040 over the past 24-48 hours. Could he slightly off mood this morning be because I woke him up and gave him his baytrill straight away (we are only mixing with water at the mo but will get some cranberry juice today) as it doesn’t taste very nice. Are we doing the right thing? Should we persist with the baytrill until Wednesday morning? Just as a note we are also giving him some probiotic in his water bottle to help with the baytirill, if he doest drink it though we will start to syringe him.

Any opinions?

Thanks

Paul

 

[Suzygpr]

Hello

My advice would be to keep giving the Baytril - please be consistent with meds as they cannot work when there are breaks between doses - and only give one or the other, not a balance of both. If you are not confident in administering inj then please do not even try (I'm disappointed that a vet would allow an owner to admisinster meds this way).

An X ray would be very wise as he is showing so much discomfort and passing blood.

Syringe the probiotics an hour or two after meds - more effective this way.

Good luck to you and your piggy.

Suzy

 

[paulsin]

Thanks for your response.
He only showed a lot of discomfort on the Saturday night. He has never been like that before or since i dont think. i was wondering whether it was because he ate so much of the recovery food and he got his bowels in overdieve. he does still squeak sometimes but not as loud as he was doing before and we havnt noticed it as often. How long should we continue with the Baytrill? I think the Vet said for 10 days? Is this too long, she did say to bring him back in the middle of this week if he is not getting any better though

 

[Guinea Wiggies]

Hi
I have had experience with sows and UTI's. Baytril is often given but can be harsh on the gut which could send him off his food a bit, so as suggested a probiotic should help with this. If he appears to be in pain you should ask your vet for some metacam, this should help with the pain your little fella might be in.

An x ray would definately rule out stones.

Hope he gets better soon!

x

 

[sport_billy]

Agree with Suzygpr. I would be inclined to ask for an xray and/or ultrasound to rule out stones. An Xray can be carried out without GA sometimes with a little sedation by means of a whiff of gas.

We were given a 10 day course of Baytrill for bladder probs but witched vets after no sucess.

If it is a UTI Septrin is the recomended antibiotic for a UTI but is off licence. It may be asking the vet about this. If he does not improve or seem to go downhill, I would be tempted to go to the vet sooner rather than later.

Where do you live? Someone on the board may be able to recomend an experienced Cavy Vet.

Keep us updated on George.

 

[Suzygpr]

I would follow your vet's advice, after all she has the training and has examined your pig. Take him back if he is not showing signs of improvement, you can discuss his ongoing antibiotics with her then. You can telephone your vets if you have any concerns over the meds.

Without seeing your pig it is very difficult to say whether the discomfort at the weekend was from stomach pain or from passing a stone.

Suzy

 

[Salt n Peppers mum]

I have experience of boar with bladder stone and we went down the route of giving antibiotics to treat UTI at first.

Baytril is the only antibiotic licensed for piggies hence why it has been prescribed. And your vet may well like to try a 10 to 14 day treatment - to see if it works. However if your piggie does have a UTI infection they can sometimes to stubborn and a longer course may be needed. However because baytril is very harsh your piggie will need probiotics too.
I asked my vet for Septrin antibiotic as its much gentler on the stomach (tastes yummy) and Septrin is the preferred antibiotic given for urinary tract infections. Although it is not-licensed for piggies, but neither is Metacam but that gets prescibed readily for painrelief/anti inflammatory in piggies. Keeping up plenty of fluid intake is extremley important to flush the bladder out too.

I saw ups and down with his pain and discomfort. For a week I'd think he wasnt in pain and didnt hear him sqeak whilst peeing and pooing and there wouldnt be any blood but then it would flare up again.
A Urine sample was taken for anaylsis i sat my piggie in a plastic tub on my knee. Fed lettuce and cucumber and just waited then quickly draw wee up with 1ml syringe, the vet said there were slight crystals and blood in the urine, but no full conclusion.
So he had an X-ray to check for bladder stones The 3rd vet I found to treat him was very open to X-raying without a general anaesthetic. On this occassion a stone wasnt found so we carried on with Septrin for a few more weeks. The flare ups seem to come and go and a few months later I asked for another X-ray to be done - and this time stones were found in his bladder.

Having a competant vet that I could work a long side certainly helped enormously.

Please let us know how George gets on

Paula

 

[2280CLAIRE]

It is very important to be regular with the antibiotic doses, and to finish the prescribed course-even if they look better. They will start to perk up because the antibiotics are doing their thing and killing the bacteria, but if they aren't given regularly, the bacteria will just multiply and make piggy feel poorly again. When you don't finish a course of antibiotics, you are also tempting fate to make the bacteria resistant to that particular type of antibiotic, as they can start to mutate.

The vet should have shown you properly how to inject piggy. You need to be confident handling the needles, and administer the injections quickly in the right area and to the right depth, or else they can be very painful. I do know some people who have had to administer insulin to their pets for diabetes, and it does take some getting used to, having to inject an animal-they don't exactly stay still!...maybe your vet could supervise you giving your piggy an injection? don't leave the surgery until you are happy with the instructions he's given you...

 

[paulsin]

Thank you all for your responses. I will carry on with the prescribed course of baytrill and if he shows no signs of getting better i will request an x-ray on Wednesday to hopefully rule out bladder stones.
Just a question on those who have mentioned Septrin and Metcam? Can i use the Septrim instead of Baytrill i.e. should i stop the Baytrill and then use the Septrin or should i complete the Baytrill and see how he is? Can the metacam be given at teh same time as baytrill/septrin?

Thanks again

 

[Guinea Wiggies]

Thank you all for your responses. I will carry on with the prescribed course of baytrill and if he shows no signs of getting better i will request an x-ray on Wednesday to hopefully rule out bladder stones.
Just a question on those who have mentioned Septrin and Metcam? Can i use the Septrim instead of Baytrill i.e. should i stop the Baytrill and then use the Septrin or should i complete the Baytrill and see how he is? Can the metacam be given at teh same time as baytrill/septrin?

Thanks again

Septrin is an antibiotic, this would be used instead of Baytril but you would have to request it from the vets. Metacam is an anti-inflammatory/painkiller and can be taken at the same time as antibiotic.

x

 

[paulsin]

Just an update.

He doesnt seem to be in any pain anymore and the redness seems to have gone from his wee. We are contuing with the Baytrill (mixed with cranberry juice) and he is drinking his water bottle (which has the probiotic in it). he seems to be better in himself, but he still isnt eating much. He always seems interested in food and goes to sniff it but then decided he doesnt want it, he is eating hay so i dont think it is his teeth.
Could it be that he is a bit bored of the food or that he is still getting better from the infection (if it is/was that). He only seemed interested in Romaine lettuce and grass, but now isnt as bothrd about them, he is still eating the lettuce but not as much. his poos are small, but that is probably due to the lack of food intake. he is now to 990g now.

Like i said he is interested in food, he comes out on top of his house and asks for it, its just as if he wants 'something else'. i am going to try and get some recovery food today for him becuase he loved that, and was wondering if that is what he is craving.

 

[zarapiggie]

Hi,

Apologies as I havnt posted in awhile, but I have some concerns over one of my piggies George. We noticed last Monday that he seemed in pain while defecating and weeing and that his wee was red. We took him to the vets on the Tuesday as we thought it was either bladder stone or a UTI infection. The vet seemed fairly competent with their knowledge of guinea pig and had a really good poke (dig) around his bladder and he didn’t seem in much discomfort (other than the obvious prodding that is) so she gave him 0.2ml of baytrill and gave us 5 more needles for us to inject him once a day. We managed to get Wednesday’s injection in him and he seemed to perk up a bit but then missed him with Thursdays and Friday mornings and he seemed to get worse again. We took him to another vets on Friday evening for an injection and to ask for the baytrill oral solution. She had another poke around and again didn’t think it would be bladder stone as he wasn’t showing any signs of pain. She gave him a 0.2ml baytrill injection and gave us 2.5% baytrill solution to give 0.4ml twice daily. We tried to get another injection in him on the Sat and missed with some but not sure how much so gave him 0.2 ml oral solution later in the evening. We also gave him some recovery food as he has lost some weight- weighs about 1100g and used to weigh 1300 a few months ago, so gave it him as a top up. He ate loads of it, but that evening seemed in real discomfort when passing his poo and was weeking A LOT. My girlfriend tried to cuddle him but he just kept moving his bum around – we checked for an impaction earlier and could see anything. We were concerned he wouldn’t make it through the night but Sunday morning he seemed better. Sunday morning we gave up on the injections and gave him 0.4ml oral in the morning and later in the day. In the evening he seemed much much better – ate loads, was eating pellets again and had 2 romaine lettuce leaves, half a cherry tomato, a handful of grass and some green pepper. We felt a lot better especially after the nightmare on Sat night. I came to give him his oral solution this morning, and I think I woke him up to do it *** he looked a bit dishevelled. I got his solution in him and he ate a romaine lettuce leaf, some green pepper and some more grass but just didn’t seem as keen.
Basically I’m just wondering if this is signs of a UTI or bladder stone, we are going to persist with the baytrill until maybe Wednesday morning and take him to the vets for an x-ray then if he is no better, but want to give the baytrill chance to work as he has had broken treatment with it up until recently. He seems ok in himself most of the time – interested in food but just not eating as much. For info his weight seems to have stayed at about 1040 over the past 24-48 hours. Could he slightly off mood this morning be because I woke him up and gave him his baytrill straight away (we are only mixing with water at the mo but will get some cranberry juice today) as it doesn’t taste very nice. Are we doing the right thing? Should we persist with the baytrill until Wednesday morning? Just as a note we are also giving him some probiotic in his water bottle to help with the baytirill, if he doest drink it though we will start to syringe him.

Any opinions?

Thanks

Paul

hope you dont mind me poking in! i have exactly the same thing with my terry, hes booked in for sat. I didn't know they could have a poke around to see if it's stones. What did she do?

 

[paulsin]

She was pressing and rubbing against his bladder to see if he seemed in any pain. She said he should be in some discomfort if he had stones due to them moving about and rubbing. he didnt though so i dont know

 

[flintstones]

Palpitation is not always accurate the best course of action when stones are possible is an Xray. Sometimes stones aren't felt. Some vets will X-ray with GA.

 

[paulsin]

Can someone please give advice.

George seems to be fine in himself now, not showing pain when pooing, or squeaking when weeing and i cannot see any traces of red wee (havnt seen any for a couple of days now). The problem is that he seems to have lost his appetite. he is interested in food but then acts as if it isnt tasty enough or that he wants something else. He nibbles on it a bit, had some melon skin this morning and a bit of lettuce. The only thing he seems keen on is dandelion leaves, which he loves. I'm concerned it is his baytrill, becuase the more he has been on it the more fussy he has acted. he still eats hay - although not as much. i decided not to give him his baytrill this morning and gave his some dandelion sprinkled with pro-biotic instead to see if he gets any appetite back. he has been having 2 x 0.4ml baytrill daily since Sunday, and prior to that had 0.1 ml on sat and at 0.2ml injection at the vets. There havnt been any signs of infection (i.e. red wee) for awhile now. Although this could be becuase he isnt eating as much.

Could his loss of apetite be cause by the baytrill? I seemed to have read that a few times on here and other sites, but when i rang the Vet this morning they said it should do that ?/.

We tried him on some Fibervore food last night and he just spat it out, so will try and get some of the other recovery food - which he loves, to try and keep his strength up.

Has anyone got any adivice please?