Possible probable bullying

[Amy B]

Hi all,
I posted on here before Christmas about possible reasons why our newly adopted Guinea Pub boars fight/one picks on the other.
They are approx 18m old and have been together for at least 16m +.
We adopted them about 6m ago from my children's school, and it was clear one was not giving the other much peace (constant chasing around cage, nipping, lots of teeth chattering etc).
At the time they had the two story cage, and we introduced the playpen, but it was in a separate room to the cage at the time.
To cut a long winded story down, we rearranged our house to combine the cage and the playpen to give them more space. Since doing this, they stopped going upstairs in the cage, so they only access the lower level now as well as playpen, it's still a big space.
All went ok for about 2months this, but we noticed in the last week or two that the bullied pig has this patch on his back.
The vet said unlikely to be mites, and to monitor them closely.
The patch seems to be getting worse in the last day or two, but we have not seen any incidents other than the dominant pig 'snapping' at his cage mate.
When we originally expanded and combined their cage/playpen, we had to move them to a more central part of our house, which is a louder area then before, but we keep reminding ourselves that they were used to being in a classroom with loads of kids and noise in it.
We have come to the conclusion that the dominant pig is doing it, but also wonder if we are just a bit too loud as a family which may stress them out.

So (apologies for rambling).... do we...
Rehouse the dominant pig?
Get one or both neutered?
Buy two separate cages and keep them close to each other but separated?
Or have we got this all wrong? Moving them back to a quieter part of the house, but this mould mean putting them back into a smaller cage again

 

[Siikibam]

Could it be a case of barbering? Someone with more knowledge will be along in the morning to answer you. I don’t have a clue, sorry.

Does the snapping happen at a specific time or anytime?

 

[Swissgreys]

Firstly well done for rescuing them for a classroom environment and then upgrading their cage.
The set up with the play pen looks great - you really have done a good job and your boys are very lucky.

I am not a vet, but at this point I would question how experienced your vet is with guinea pigs.
That looks very much like a skin problem (fungal, mites?) although it is impossible to diagnose based solely on a photo.
It certainly does not look like an injury from a fight.
What tests did the vet do to decided it wasn't a skin problem?
Did the vet try any treatment (often the only way to rule out a skin problem)?

How are their weights?
Is the potentially bullied pig loosing weight?

I doubt noise is the problem.
My guinea pigs also live in our living area, and our home is pretty noisy with a constant stream of kids coming and going, plus 2 children who play instruments (one is a trumpet!) and this has never bothered them. I think if they have a good cage and feel safe then noise isn't a huge problem..

I would definitely not split the boys and try and find a different vet who can give yo a second opinion.
I think there is a medical issue and not behavioral.
And neutering (if it was behavioural) will not change their behaviour at all - just stop them making babies, so this isn't something that is worth doing right now.
If you can tell us roughly where you are based I am sure someone will be able to recommend a vet.

 

[Amy B]

Thank you for the reply, it's much appreciated!
The Vet initially wasn't altogether sure what the cause was, as the skin wasn't broken etc. He did say however, that the hair was shorter rather than completely bald, which suggested it was from the other pig or that he was doing it to himself from stress. The Vet did say to treat for mites firstly, so we have given them both a dose.
He weighed him for the purpose of medication doses, but it's the first time we have used this vets, so there was nothing to compare it to. He said his fur was in good condition etc and that he seemed in good health otherwise.
This pig is the smaller of the two, and we often see his mate snapping at him if they try to eat at the same time, kind of telling him he's not allowed any whilst the boss is eating etc, it he still definitely gets to eat frequently enough I would say.
Thank you for reassuring us that we are too noisy as a family!
We are in North West Surrey

 

[Amy B]

Could it be a case of barbering? Someone with more knowledge will be along in the morning to answer you. I don’t have a clue, sorry.

Does the snapping happen at a specific time or anytime?

Thank you for your reply, it's appreciated! One of the moderators replied with some helpful suggestions, thank you!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

I agree, it does look like either barbering or possibly a skin thing like mites rather than an argument or else there would be little scabs.

Have you got 2+ of everything? For example, two food bowls, two hay areas and two water bottles etc? It certainly helps if you have a strong dominant character. It’s best to place them fairly far apart so the boss can’t guard the food. When it comes to veggies I also scatter feed so everyone has a fair chance of eating that day

Does he mind you touching the area? When Bella had mites when she was little it was in the same place as your boy and she got irritable when you touched it and a bit snappy! Otherwise if it’s barbering it’s a bit of an inconvenience and I’m not sure how one stops it, if at all. Some people just have to live with bad haircuts

 

[alpacasqueak]

Yeah totally agree with @Swissgreys, another vet probably the best idea. Your setup looks absolutely brilliant for two piggies! And lots of everything so no need to fight over stuff, definitely worth another opinion.
My mum's piggy George (passed away last year at 7) was an ex-classroom piggy, he was great with noise from grandkids, very much used to it from an early age. Obv not a vet either but can't see it being he would barber himself because of stress from noise if he's been used to it from living in a classroom (or with kids anyway!)
Definitely worth checking out the approved vets on here and getting another vets help. Hope all goes well x

 

[Amy B]

I agree, it does look like either barbering or possibly a skin thing like mites rather than an argument or else there would be little scabs.

Have you got 2+ of everything? For example, two food bowls, two hay areas and two water bottles etc? It certainly helps if you have a strong dominant character. It’s best to place them fairly far apart so the boss can’t guard the food. When it comes to veggies I also scatter feed so everyone has a fair chance of eating that day

Does he mind you touching the area? When Bella had mites when she was little it was in the same place as your boy and she got irritable when you touched it and a bit snappy! Otherwise if it’s barbering it’s a bit of an inconvenience and I’m not sure how one stops it, if at all. Some people just have to live with bad haircuts

Thank you for the reply! He generally seems ok with the patch being touched, and there are definitely no broken skin areas. The patch has got marginally bigger I would say too, in the last day or so.
We do have pretty much 2 + of everything, however, posting this made us think of the fact that we had recently changed what we use to put thier hay in. We went from two bowls to one extra large tray for their hay, but we binned the tray eventually as it wasn't easy to clean. It sounds strange to say it, but we started using the corner toilet as a hay container, as neither of them had ever ever used the toilet, for anything, let alone as a toilet! We have found the bullied pig happily lying in the hay toilet now a few times, so think maybe the dominant pig isnt happy with this. We have ordered another one, so we can have two large hay 'containers' again.
We have also ordered some mirrors and another boredom buster thing. The dominant pig has always seemed to have a far more sensation seeking personality, and appears quite destructive for no reason, whilst the bullied pig is generally happy just 'being' - so maybe we need to up what we do to keep the dominant pig occupied and therefore happier!
Thank you for your help

 

[Amy B]

Yeah totally agree with @Swissgreys, another vet probably the best idea. Your setup looks absolutely brilliant for two piggies! And lots of everything so no need to fight over stuff, definitely worth another opinion.
My mum's piggy George (passed away last year at 7) was an ex-classroom piggy, he was great with noise from grandkids, very much used to it from an early age. Obv not a vet either but can't see it being he would barber himself because of stress from noise if he's been used to it from living in a classroom (or with kids anyway!)
Definitely worth checking out the approved vets on here and getting another vets help. Hope all goes well x

Thank you for taking the time to reply, it's appreciated! It's reassuring to hear people say it's unlikely to be our noise level, although my husband and I thought we might not mention this bit to our kids, in a bid for the kids trying to still be quieter (for the sake of the pigs )
I think we will see how they go for a few more days, and then maybe try a new vet.
Thank you!