Possible stroke? (long)

[feegle]

Nugget is very poorly at the minute and I was just wondering if anyone had any advice...

It started with her front right leg which she was holding up and limping. I had a look at it and didn't appear broken so I just assumed she had twisted it as she was totally fine otherwise. The next morning though she didn't get up for breakfast and I saw that now her rear right leg also wasn't working. She was eating fine at first but now it's a struggle to keep her eating. She's still in fairly good condition at the minute though I realise this could decline fast. I had to separate her from the others as they (well Fudge) was bullying her - although she is next to and can see the others.

The vets do not know what's wrong - they seem to think it could be arthritis although I'm doubtful of this. They thought her rear left leg was the most painful as when they were flexing it she cried the most - but I think it was because she was forced to put her weight onto the right side.

The vet did not think it was a stroke because she's not totally paralysed down the right side - she can still move her legs a bit but is very, very weak. When she's in the hutch all she will do is lie completely on her left side - so both rear legs are in the air - so I know her right side rear leg is hurting her.

She's eating and drinking really only when I get her out to give her stuff. I have some Science recovery which I'm trying to syringe feed her with limited success, she will eat some vegetables/salad, but only at her normal teatime. She's stopped eating hay altogether but is having small amounts of readigrass. Won't eat fresh grass but I've found out today will eat a certain amount of dandelion leaves fairly enthusiastically (can you overfeed these?). Also when I'm feeding her she'll be munching away and it'll get slower and stop until I prompt her again and she'll suddenly remember what she was doing - I don't know if she's falling asleep or what when she does this (it's not the same as just stopping chewing when she's heard a noise or something).

I have metacam and also marbocyl from the vets which I am giving her just in case it's an infection.

Just wanted to know if anyone had come across anything similar or if there was anything else I could do. It's just so sad seeing her lying there not hardly moving most of the time. I want to give her the chance to recover from whatever it is but her quality of life at the minute is next to nothing.

 

[Piggyologist]

I don't know what to advise, unfortunately, but contact Vedra from CCT, she's one of the best in the UK at diagnostics
http://www.britishassociationofrodentologists.co.uk/contact_us.html

Also, Laura (text: 07811 806187 [email protected]) is amazing at sharing her experience.

 

[Pebble]

Hi feegle

I'm afraid you've not had many replies because to be quite honest this a new one on most of us I think. But I didn;t want to read and run...and have spent a few hours thinking about Nugget's situation before I reply

It's difficult to advise as the symptoms you describe are not (as your vet has already said) ressembling a stroke....I have had guinea pigs who have had strokes or oxygen depletion ot the brain and there would be other indications such as rolling eyes, and complete paralysis across certain nerve axies.

Unfortunately neurology problems in guinea pigs are the least known about. My Beechie lost the use of his back legs whilst going through a painful gut stasis/adhesion problem and the vets were baffled as to what could have happened or to explain it...the nearest we got was there could have been pressure on the femoral nerve caused by the swelling in the gut cavity....but it was all speculation.

The fact that this seems progressive (first the front foot and then the hind feet) would indicate that is possibly a neurological/inlfammatory problem that could be due to some kind of lesion/damage to the spine or (more likely) peripheral nerves....or an infection.


There have been cases where guinea pigs can spontaneously recover from these types of paralysis....sometimes with the aid of osteocare, sometimes with hydrotherapy (get them to sit in water and move their legs) and (for the arithiritis pigs) with potters tabiritis tablets.

The problem for you atm is you don;t know what's causing it (and neither do we)...and I suspect your vets are a bit stumped as well. I certainly wouldn;t recommend you trying ANY of the above suggestions until you have a clearer idea of the cause as any treatment mentioned above could be detrimental toNugget at this time

How old is Nugget?Is she spayed? Has she had a previous litter? Has she had any prior treatment (eg ivermectin injections, dental treatment, GA's)....has she had any prior illnesses. What meds has she had previously? Was there any change in her behaviour/eating etc prior to the right front paw becoming tender? This info might help us narrow down on possible ways forward

I would suggest that if you want to find the possible cause then an x ray of the spine is in order. The vets also need to determine if there is spinal or peripheral nerve involvement. At the moment all you can do is treat the clinical symptoms which with metacam as painkller and anti-inflammatory, an antibiotic (and syringe feeding together with possibly a gut stimulant like metoclopramide to keep her guts moving if she stops pooing properly) is all you can do untill your vets have found out what's wrong.

Are you confident about your vets piggie knowledge? Can they refer you to a specialist?

I'm sorry I can;t help any further but I have to admit I am baffled by what you describe...hence all the questions.

I DO however understand how frustrating it is to have a piggie with a condition that is "baffling"...and can do no more atm but send you lots of hugs.

If you need a second opinion let us know where you are and we will try to find a good vet for you.

Don;t give up....plenty of piggies have recovered from worse situations than Nugget in respect of immobile limbs. Just keep her fed/watered and pooing!

If you want to have a telecon to discuss how to approach your vets on what should happen next then please Pm me for my phone number.

HTH
x

 

[hellsbells82]

Big hugs, not much advice I'm afraid, but I lost my Dinky to neurological problems/strokes/fits, and as Pebble said, his eyes were shaking lots and he was very weak and falling over sideways constantly, kept having fits and went downhill very quickly so it does sound like whatever it is isn't as rapid and severe and that must be positive.

Really hope you get to the bottom of it soon x

 

[feegle]

Many thanks for all your replies - I know it's hard to know what to say or think as I've be trying my hardest myself to figure out what could be happening and I've got her right here to see.

I think she is eating a little more tonight - mostly helped by the dandelion leaves which seems to be the only thing she has any enthusiasm for. But she won't eat anything by herself in the hutch and just lies on her side mostly without moving. When I get her out to feed she is in a more natural upright position on my lap balanced between my legs and I don't know if this helps her eat more. Her back right leg seems really painful though even with the metacam.

Sorry I haven't figured out how to quote yet:
How old is Nugget? approx 1 year
Is she spayed? No
Has she had a previous litter? No
Has she had any prior treatment (eg ivermectin injections, dental treatment, GA's)....has she had any prior illnesses? No - she's had topical ivermectin before but not recently
What meds has she had previously? Nothing - she's never been ill before
Was there any change in her behaviour/eating etc prior to the right front paw becoming tender? Nothing that I could tell - she was behaving normal and eating absolutely fine right up until this

I'm not sure how good my vets are with small animals - I know they're good with dogs. I think it was one that might have been suggested in the vets thread already though but I'll have to double check. They did mention x-rays as a possibility if the meds didn't help but didn't seem that hopeful they could do a lot after the outcome from the x-rays. I will consider this if she doesn't improve though.

I have been thinking of another scenario especially as from your posts it doesn't sound like a stroke. (As you can tell I'm just trying to think of anything that it could be - just speculating). If say she had twisted her front paw and so was hopping around on 3 legs, could she have hurt her back leg somehow by doing this? Her front paw is very weak but doesn't appear painful whereas her back leg seems very painful. The vet felt her legs though so not a dislocation but could it broken? Can you always feel if a leg is broken? Again, if no improvement this suggests x-rays will be the next step.

I know no one really has the answers here but it helps to have people to speculate and share with.

Again many, many thanks for the replies. I'll keep you updated on her progress.

 

[carrot_and_parsnip]

Hey I have no advice, just wanted to say I hope you get to the bottom of it soon, it must be really frustrating knowing Nugget is in pain and not knowing why, or how to help.
It would do no harm, and may even help to contact the people in the second post. I had to contact Laura recently and she was super helpful and knowledgeable, good luck with your piggie xox

 

[feegle]

Yeah, I think I'll try contacting Laura. Just need to find more time in the day. Who knew a sick pig could be so time consuming!

I thought she seemed brighter this morning, lifting her head up, kind of asking for her dandelion leaves, but doesn't seem as bright this afternoon. She's kind of up and down. An upside is she's now eating fresh grass but in place of this is refusing readigrass.

As she's lying on her side all the time she's becoming urine stained on her side. I'm going to try and give it a proper wash later but I tried a little before and she was whimpering so pitifully I had to stop. But later I'll try and do it properly otherwise it's just going to cause more problems.

Her droppings are a bit watery and not properly formed now, I guess as a result of the antibiotics and/or all the green material she's eating. I'm giving probiotics to try and counter this. She's not good at taking the Recovery stuff and absolutely hates the syringe.

I'm also going to weigh her later and see how she's doing.

 

[feegle]

Here's an update on Nugget.

She appears to be improving little by little. Today she managed for the first time to roll herself off her side to an upright position on her own. She doesn't stay like this for long and she still can't really move much but this is I feel a big step. She's also starting to eat a bit by herself without me actually waving it in front of her nose and sticking it in her mouth. Her appetite is vastly improved although still nowhere near what it should be but she has eaten a few strands of hay now.

This may not seem like much but I really thought that she was going to die when she couldn't move and stopped eating. Her front leg is still not fully functional but I think it's a bit stronger and her back leg is not as painful as before.

I don't know what caused this or what's making it better but I'm just hoping that she keeps improving.

 

[PiggiePal]

just read your post and sorry via nugget is in pain and not well. I'm glad she's seeming brighter though today and that she's stood up of her own accord. She hasn't fallen off a pigloo or something and hurt herself? Make sure you're giving her plenty of food to keep her gut going. You could try mashed up excel pellets my pigs seem to like it better than the critical care just to give her a change. Lots of love x x

 

[Abi_nurse]

Ive seen a pig similar (not quite the same tho) to this at work once. She improved slowly with hand feeding and another piggie for company and as far as i know shes on the road to recovery now. All we could suggest was a type of epilepsy/narcolepsy. But as said before, guinea pig neurology has very little research in, so I'm not much help. I really hope nugget starts to feel better soon.

Big hugs from all my gang.
x.