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Post Vet Analysis: Casran

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Poppy'sMum said:
Yes split that in two, they tolerate quite high levels of Metacam & Sarah may well prescribe Tramodol too. Is his eye any worse? x
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His eye is just the same. Having researched the eye abscess I have to say his eye does not look like Cedric's for example. Or any others I can find online. Here is his eye. It depends which way he is looking as to whether it pokes out:

Caz.webp
 
If they cant find anything behind the eye, could it be pressure from congestion causing it to push out? My fudges eyes are like that , and they vary massively in that some days they protude alot and other days they look normal. This has always been normal for her.

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Just a thought since the eye itself itsnt damaged and doesnt seem to be deteriorating.

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This look exactly the same @Adelle

The eye itself looks very healthy, bright and no redness.

x
 
hope you manage to see sarah. don't split the metacam dose as then you'll be under-dosing because of the metabolism. you do want to give twice a day ideally and then you'd do the 0.6ml twice instead of once. this is because the metabolism is thought to be about 12hrs but likely less. so at the moment he is likely getting 0.6ml for 12hrs ish and then probably a tiny amount but more likely nothing for the rest of the time. so then the next 0.6ml would cover the next 12hrs.

if you split 0.6ml then he will only ever have 0.3ml in his system and for inflammation that is really very low and won't do what it should be. hope that makes sense. i think sarah will likely do this anyway as i know she works with more adequate doses which inflammation needs :)
 
TheAurora said:
This look exactly the same @Adelle

The eye itself looks very healthy, bright and no redness.

x
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Iv been told its effectively fatty eye that causes her to be like this. Its harmless and her eye functions fine. Hopefully its just a coincidence and his eye gets the all clear. Hopefully this highly recommended vet can get to the bottom of his breathing issues too.

Wishing you the best of luck!
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
We never dose that high. Simon says he prefers to dose at the lowest level that gives adequate pain relief. We have always found 0.25 ml is sufficient.
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well it depends on the problem as to how much is needed. sarah might think 0.3ml every 12hrs is fine, she might think 0.6ml every 12hrs is fine. it just depends. there isn't a set max amount no matter what the condition is there - it depends on how much inflammation needs to be controlled and that does take more adequate doses.
 
biscandmatt said:
well it depends on the problem as to how much is needed. sarah might think 0.3ml every 12hrs is fine, she might think 0.6ml every 12hrs is fine. it just depends. there isn't a set max amount no matter what the condition is there - it depends on how much inflammation needs to be controlled and that does take more adequate doses.
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To be honest @biscandmatt I don't think my current vet did any 'calculating'... it wasn't really about careful consideration more "well have this". I don't even think she considered inflammation that carefully - he just felt tender across his chest. Hence why I'm trying to get an appointment with more of a piggy expert x
 
TheAurora said:
To be honest @biscandmatt I don't think my current vet did any 'calculating'... it wasn't really about careful consideration more "well have this". I don't even think she considered inflammation that carefully - he just felt tender across his chest. Hence why I'm trying to get an appointment with more of a piggy expert x
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hopefully sarah can work out what is going on and what is needed. was a bit gutted when she left our vets because she was really excellent. :)
 
biscandmatt said:
hopefully sarah can work out what is going on and what is needed. was a bit gutted when she left our vets because she was really excellent. :)
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Keep your fingers, toes and everyone's paws crossed @biscandmatt because two big things have to happen... my boss has to give me Tuesday off and Sarah has to have an appointment available Tuesday morning for all this to come together for the little chap x
 
By the way, do you notice something about this picture @Adelle ?

Since Casran has been ill, Jemima has - in a dramatic flourish of selflessness that she reminds us of hourly - let Casran sleep with Mr Moo Moo. Shock, horror!

She has actually been quite tender towards her piggy husband while he's been ill. It's quite touching really x

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I would split the metacam 0.6ml dose for coverage 0.3ml twice is a good dose and should hopefully keep his pain in check.
 
biscandmatt said:
well it depends on the problem as to how much is needed. sarah might think 0.3ml every 12hrs is fine, she might think 0.6ml every 12hrs is fine. it just depends. there isn't a set max amount no matter what the condition is there - it depends on how much inflammation needs to be controlled and that does take more adequate doses.
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I dose according to my vets instructions. If I felt more was needed I would discuss it with him, but 0.25 mls has always done the job. Please remember Metacam is a prescription only medicine and we should not be telling anyone to double the dose they have been prescribed.
 
I've been told 0.3ml of CAT metacalm was the max i could give so i definately wouldnt double the dog strength. I found 0.3ml of cat metacalm twice a day was just enough to keep my post op spay piggie pain free.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I dose according to my vets instructions. If I felt more was needed I would discuss it with him, but 0.25 mls has always done the job. Please remember Metacam is a prescription only medicine and we should not be telling anyone to double the dose they have been prescribed.
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i just said what i would do, same as you did and others did. :hmm: the op said he was doing well on 0.6ml so why would you tell her to halve it? plus what i said wasn't to double it as it lasts 12hrs therefore giving it twice would be keeping it the same!

i dose according to my vets instructions aswell. i've never been given as low as (at least initially) that by my specialist vet and any other vet who has worked there. i can pass on the info and advice i think is right, same as you. it's upto the op and their vet what they then decide is the best for that pet and their condition.

even if metacam is effective pain relief wise at 0.2ml, that doesn't mean the inflammation doesn't need higher than that to bring it down and under control, at least initially. there is data available on the use of metacam in guinea pigs which states this that vets can have access to.

i'm sure sarah pellett will beable to work out what is going on and what doses will be best in this particular case anyway and knows much more than either of us ever will :)
 
biscandmatt said:
i just said what i would do, same as you did and others did. :hmm: the op said he was doing well on 0.6ml so why would you tell her to halve it?

i dose according to my vets instructions aswell. i've never been given as low as (at least initially) that by my specialist vet and any other vet who has worked there. i can pass on the info and advice i think is right, same as you. it's upto the op and their vet what they then decide is the best for that pet and their condition.

even if metacam is effective pain relief wise at 0.2ml, that doesn't mean the inflammation doesn't need higher than that to bring it down and under control, at least initially. there is data available on the use of metacam in guinea pigs which states this that vets can have access to.

i'm sure sarah pellett will beable to work out what is going on and what doses will be best in this particular case anyway and knows much more than either of us ever will :)
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Its definately something that alot of vets have different ideas of- iv only ever been prescribed cat metacam which is only 0.5mg/ml compared to 1.5mg/ml in dog metacam- the dog one is effectively 3x the strength. Iv been advised 0.6ml of cat daily by one vet, 0.3ml by another, 0.2ml by another and 3 drops by another! I found 0.3ml twice daily was needed for crunchies post op spay but only 0.15ml twice daily at the peak of her bladder flares.

When you think of 0.6ml of dog metacam, is effectively 1.8ml of cat metacalm- which is ALOT. Hence why i suggested splitting it but i really do see your point that it wont "hit" the inflammation as hard.

According to the veterinary formulary, 0.2ml of a 0.5mg/ml solution of metacalm (cat) is the daily dose.

Alot of vets and members have gone way above this with no adverse effects.

I bet if we all went to one vet each and asked for a dosage, we'd all come back with a different number!

We all rely on our trusted vets expertise and want to do the best for our guinea- so we'll all think different doses are correct. We are all just doing what we think is right- i dont think we'll ever get a "correct" answer on this topic sadly!
 
Adelle said:
Its definately something that alot of vets have different ideas of- iv only ever been prescribed cat metacam which is only 0.5mg/ml compared to 1.5mg/ml in dog metacam- the dog one is effectively 3x the strength. Iv been advised 0.6ml of cat daily by one vet, 0.3ml by another, 0.2ml by another and 3 drops by another! I found 0.3ml twice daily was needed for crunchies post op spay but only 0.15ml twice daily at the peak of her bladder flares.

When you think of 0.6ml of dog metacam, is effectively 1.8ml of cat metacalm- which is ALOT. Hence why i suggested splitting it but i really do see your point that it wont "hit" the inflammation as hard.

According to the veterinary formulary, 0.2ml of a 0.5mg/ml solution of metacalm (cat) is the daily dose.

Alot of vets and members have gone way above this with no adverse effects.

I bet if we all went to one vet each and asked for a dosage, we'd all come back with a different number!

We all rely on our trusted vets expertise and want to do the best for our guinea- so we'll all think different doses are correct. We are all just doing what we think is right- i dont think we'll ever get a "correct" answer on this topic sadly!
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yes, you're probably right :)) because we've only ever been given dog metacam and twice a day minimum. although the specialist vets tend to give what some people consider 'higher' doses and years back people worried about it. now as time goes on, more and more vets are creeping upto this level.

the vet formula one is available to everyone i think but our vet was saying there is alot more data available to vets only where research has been done and this is why they dose differently. i'm not sure if just the specialist vets have access to it but it's definitely there. he didn't go into detail, just the metabolism times and what doses are now used. the very latest upto date data.

the vet was saying how many under-dose and that can have a negative affect, so i worry when people do it. also it's seen as a pain killer sometimes which it predominantly isn't of course. i think that causes confusion aswell sometimes. he was also explaining about how inflammation works and that each time the body has some, it's important to reduce it as quickly as possible (with the initial higher doses) as there will always be a permanent bit of damage left over after it, and this in itself can be bad going forward.

honestly, it's just something i feel passionate about because what he says makes so much sense, plus he's one of the best specialist vets we have in this country. the other ones, like molly varga, richard saunders, john chitty etc, also dose and treat in these same ways. these are the people who are the ones other vets refer to, who write medicine text book chapters, and the ones who teach in universities and at lectures and conferences around the world. the best of the best you can get in this field. that's why i try and post the information i get from our vet because i feel you won't get better advice :)

but obviously each case is different for that individual piggy :)
 
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I'd just like to say one thing here... I do believe differences of opinion can open up healthy debates. And we should exchange ideas and accept the fact we won't always agree.

I've welcomed different perspectives on subjects and have weighed them up and found different ideas very interesting. But ultimately have made my own decision for the welfare of my piggy.

Thank you for all being so passionate in your support.

X
 
The most I've ever given is 0.4 ml dog metacam, per day which is usually split into two, two different exotic vets at different practices where as a non exotics gives less, but they are always open to suggestions which I really like :)

Hope everything goes well @TheAurora
 
I have removed some of the posts in this thread that are detracting from Casran's condition.

EDIT: 1 post of Biscandmatt and1 post of furryfriends have been removed from public view.
 
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I think you can have various excellent vets, who all have great success with their own treatment plans, yet have different opinions. Who is right is something perhaps for the veterinary establishment to discuss - the merits of each method, the success stories, personal findings - science is an ongoing learning curve and it's natural for each vet to draw on his/own experiences, as well as keeping up to date with current opinion, which I would think are written by experts in the field, but even with that in mind they themselves are forever learning and I hope are able to draw on the experience of others.
I've read both sides of the debate here, and both make sense to me, coming from a lay-person's view. To me though it is potentially dangerous to advocate going against vet advice, and yet we all know that not all vets are correct. There's no harm in talking to your vet to discuss the recent findings of others and different treatment merits. If done in the right way I would hope that most people's egos should not get in the way of interesting discussion and the opportunity to further their knowledge in their own field.
Yes we do forget that Metacam is an anti inflammatory sometimes, but whilst it's good to ensure that inflammation goes down it's also right to be concerned about over-dosing.

I personally think it's fine for two people to advocate their vets advice when each knows their vets are good, and each have high success in what they are doing, but it can in some instances be dangerous to ignore the advice of your own vet - the one who has actually seen your pet, or to up the dose without discussing it. Perhaps, for those of us with a great deal of experience in these cases we can draw our own conclusions, but let's not forget that anyone can read these threads and draw potentially harmful conclusions either way, about altering the doses that their vet has recommended, either up or down.
These are potentially very useful discussions, and coming at things from opposite angles from two people who have both seen success in the two different methods there's bound to be disagreement, but surely it doesn't have to be an angry clash? No-one likes being told that they are wrong, but I would hope that people can see that there's not always hard and fast rules that each and every vet follows. If there was there would be no progress. I think if you find yourself in the position of being told one thing by one vet, and you see the potential merits of trying something different, perhaps either discuss this with your vet and/or seek a second opinion.
 
This is no different to us all going to our own Doctor and getting different advice.


Please remember we all want to help but at the end of the day the piggies Mama will make the decision she feels is best for her baby just like us hoomans do.

Healing vibes being sent to Casran and hugs to you :hug:
 
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