Problems between my two males

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KeatonLividiX

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have two male aby's, a brown and a blonde one. They were litter mates and are a little over a year old now. They had the occasional dominance ritual at first but got along for the most part. But we recently moved and the brown one is starting to get a little rough with the other, bordering on bullying him at some points. I'm starting to worry about the blonde one being stressed out, and dont know if should give them more time to acclimate to the new environment or consider dividing their cage.

Where should draw the line?
 
I’m sorry to hear this

how long ago did you move?
When you change a piggies environment, it will cause them to reestablish their bond and hierarchy. That takes around two weeks to happen. In well bonded pairs, it doesn’t cause anything more than a minor increase in dominance that settles down.
In pairs where there is an underlying issue, the move can bring those issues to the fore and potentially break a bond.
It is the same reason why we recommend only cleaning out half the cage at a time. A full cage clean removes all scent which can cause a reestablishing every time (in sensitive pairs) which can weaken a bond.

Bullying is a sustained set of behaviours - the bullied pig may become withdrawn, lose weight at each weekly weight checked through either being chased away from food or be too scared to come out to eat, a consistent display of dominance meaning the bullied pig is constantly chased or humped. The other thing that can happen is a bullied pig becomes so fed up with it that they fight back and an actual fight occurs

Where you draw the line depends on what is actually happening. If it is minor dominance then you do not intervene. If you are seeing the signs of bullying and there is trouble brewing or if a fight had occurred then you will need to act and separate them.

If you do need to separate them, ensure each piggy has a minimum cage size of 120x60cm (48x24 inches minimum).

Bonds In Trouble
Reacting to group or territorial changes: Dominance and group establishment/re-establishment
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
 
It is good that you are planning for different scenarios. Guidelines on the forum are good advice about boar bonds and how to recognise when they need separation. I think it's when one boar is preventing the other from eating, drinking or using shelters by guarding these things and by constantly chasing the subordinate boar, causing him to be stressed out and withdrawn, too scared to show his nose in public, trapped in a corner of the cage. Also if the dominant boar is biting, drawing blood and injuring the subordinate boar, or if the bothered boar is standing his ground and the conflict is turning into furball fights. Each boar needs quite a bit of space and needs to be able to see, hear and smell his former cage mate through the bars. Single boars need more interaction with the person caring for them, floor time, stimulation etc to make up for the loss of his "herd".
 
Definitely a lot of chasing, they've only been moved for about 5 days so far. And I completely cleaned and replaced all their bedding when I moved them (I didn't know about the half the cage at a time thing) In the old house they were good enough about sharing that I turned one of their two feed/water areas into more open area for them. I'm gonna try giving them separate areas in one cage for now but if it comes down to it their cage is thankfully big enough to split.

Hopefully the brown one settles down on his own, it was just a bit alarming watching him go from little bits of rumble strutting and "I eat first" to the chasing and nipping and "ALL the food is mine"
 
Truffolo said:
It is good that you are planning for different scenarios. Guidelines on the forum are good advice about boar bonds and how to recognise when they need separation. I think it's when one boar is preventing the other from eating, drinking or using shelters by guarding these things and by constantly chasing the subordinate boar, causing him to be stressed out and withdrawn, too scared to show his nose in public, trapped in a corner of the cage. Also if the dominant boar is biting, drawing blood and injuring the subordinate boar, or if the bothered boar is standing his ground and the conflict is turning into furball fights. Each boar needs quite a bit of space and needs to be able to see, hear and smell his former cage mate through the bars. Single boars need more interaction with the person caring for them, floor time, stimulation etc to make up for the loss of his "herd".
Click to expand...
There's been chasing and a little bit of nipping, no blood draw yet and no piggy tornadoes. I mentioned in another reply that In our old home I eventually turned one of their two feeding/water areas into more open space for them cause they were getting along. I'll have to set it back up
 
If it’s only chasing then it’s possibly not bad enough yet, particularly as they are still well within the two weeks establishing. If you see anything of more concern at all then do step in.

Best not to have specified food areas - scatter food all around the whole cage so they have to forage. It will mean the dominant cannot food hog (he can’t guard the whole cage at one time) but it also provides them with mental stimulation and encourages natural behaviours.
It is normal for the dominant to get the pick of the best bits though
 
KeatonLividiX said:
Definitely a lot of chasing, they've only been moved for about 5 days so far. And I completely cleaned and replaced all their bedding when I moved them (I didn't know about the half the cage at a time thing) In the old house they were good enough about sharing that I turned one of their two feed/water areas into more open area for them. I'm gonna try giving them separate areas in one cage for now but if it comes down to it their cage is thankfully big enough to split.

Hopefully the brown one settles down on his own, it was just a bit alarming watching him go from little bits of rumble strutting and "I eat first" to the chasing and nipping and "ALL the food is mine"
Click to expand...
Yes, they should have two of everything to encourage sharing. I fell into thectrap of cleaning the whole age at once and it changed Truffle from a tolerant leader to a little tormentor. I think my piggies would have been OK possibly, but Polo put on a lot of weight and started getting gnarly with Truffle, really loudly teeth chattering, extreme bristling and both having a real psycho piggy look on their faces. It's much more peaceful with each separate, but it's a pity too in many ways. Since separation, there's no going back. Now if they meet, they both get almost hysterical and the risk of fighting and injury is too high to try bonding them again.
 
Yeah that's how mine have been. Cinnamon, the bigger brown one was always in charge, but as long as he ate and drank first he didn't bother Anakin. Now he's got Anakin hiding in his house and rumble struts real loud all day long to the point where I take him out just to give Anakin the chance to relax
 
Is he actually hiding all the time and not wanting to come out if cinnamon is there?

As It’s important not to put a human view onto things (rumbling or chasing may look annoying or rough to us but it is normal for them) so you should not be needing to remove one to let the other relax provided behaviours are within the mild range of dominance (rumbling, chasing, mounting). It’s important they are left to get on with it - removing one can cause more harm than good as you are disrupting their reestablishing and could just be making him do it more when you put them back together.

But if you are seeing anakin withdraw when cinnamon is in the cage and then relax if cinnamon isn’t around then that could mean you are heading towards trial separation (a few days in separate cages so you can watch how anakin reacts - it is never cinnamon’s reaction you go by)

Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
 
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