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Propolis tincture - I tried this for a lung or respiratory condition, with very promising results

Ronny Lunkarya

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Carlos has always been a bright, lively, confident pig with no health problems, besides seeming sensitive to cold and prone to sniffles. I adopted him aged 7 weeks old nearly 5 years ago, and up until late February, he lived in my flat, with lawn time in a friend's garden on summer afternoons when I could manage it. So, he was used to being indoors.

In late January/ early Feb, we had a bit of a warm spell, so I turned my heating off and went away for a few days, with a friend popping in each day to feed my guinea pigs. Unfortunately, it suddenly turned cold at nights again while I was away and Carlos caught a chill. His breathing became noisy and his nose ran a little. The vet diagnosed a respiratory tract infection and put him on Baytril twice daily for a week. It had no effect, in fact Carlos became more unwell, lost weight and started to sit in a hunched way. The vet then put him on a pink, fruity-tasting antibiotic designed for human children. He seemed to make a full recovery on this and I was very relieved.

In late February, I moved the pigs from my flat to my boyfriend's house in Dumfries. I needed to completely empty the flat as I am selling it, and unfortunately I had to transport the lads by train, which was stressful for them. They then settled into their new home, which must have been scary and weird for the first few days, especially as I had to shoot back to Derbyshire to fetch the rest of my stuff and they had to get used to a new human carer. Soon after this move, Carlos' breathing got bad again and he made as much noise as before, with visibly heaving sides when he slept. I got really nervous that his condition was viral or that he had a mass on his lungs and reluctant to try antibiotics again. I started to wonder whether he would pull through. I did some Googling and his symptoms sounded like pneumonia.

I had looked up a new vet in Dumfries and was on the verge of taking him there, when I decided to try something, first. The old Indian chemist at the wonderful wholefood shop House of Mistry in Hampstead, London, had recently sold me a bottle of organic, alcohol-free propolis tincture for a sore throat I'd had, that I wanted to knock on the head quickly. I had most of the bottle left over. So I started Carlos on it, twice a day. I diluted two drops of it in some water and dripped it onto small, strongly-flavoured treats such as basil, parsley and celery leaves. After a day, the heaving sides had gone, so I kept up the treatment, postponing the vet appointment and keeping a really careful eye on the little guy. I also added vitamin drops to the water bottle and made a point of keeping him extra warm.

After four days, Carlos no longer makes any noise at all when he breathes, has perked up and seems back to his old, cheeky, energetic self. So I am going to keep up the treatment and only take him to the vet if he relapses.

Any thoughts?
 
After a quick pubmed search it does seem like propolis has antibacterial and antiviral qualities, and is being researched for its effect on URIs. However the main focus seems to be on its anti inflammatory properties, and it can have side effects. I would be very wary when using something like this with guineas, as there would be no way to tell a correct dose or whether your guinea would react to it.
I would still get your piggie checked at the vet, in case the propolis has had enough effect to ease his breathing but not enough to get rid of the infection completely.
That said, I am glad that Carlos seems to be better and it is an interesting result, maybe something to discuss with my piggy savvy vet when I'm next in!
 
After a quick pubmed search it does seem like propolis has antibacterial and antiviral qualities, and is being researched for its effect on URIs. However the main focus seems to be on its anti inflammatory properties, and it can have side effects. I would be very wary when using something like this with guineas, as there would be no way to tell a correct dose or whether your guinea would react to it.
I would still get your piggie checked at the vet, in case the propolis has had enough effect to ease his breathing but not enough to get rid of the infection completely.
That said, I am glad that Carlos seems to be better and it is an interesting result, maybe something to discuss with my piggy savvy vet when I'm next in!
Should also add - anything the vet gives will have been used before and effects known, so maybe safer to start there.
 
Carlos has always been a bright, lively, confident pig with no health problems, besides seeming sensitive to cold and prone to sniffles. I adopted him aged 7 weeks old nearly 5 years ago, and up until late February, he lived in my flat, with lawn time in a friend's garden on summer afternoons when I could manage it. So, he was used to being indoors.

In late January/ early Feb, we had a bit of a warm spell, so I turned my heating off and went away for a few days, with a friend popping in each day to feed my guinea pigs. Unfortunately, it suddenly turned cold at nights again while I was away and Carlos caught a chill. His breathing became noisy and his nose ran a little. The vet diagnosed a respiratory tract infection and put him on Baytril twice daily for a week. It had no effect, in fact Carlos became more unwell, lost weight and started to sit in a hunched way. The vet then put him on a pink, fruity-tasting antibiotic designed for human children. He seemed to make a full recovery on this and I was very relieved.

In late February, I moved the pigs from my flat to my boyfriend's house in Dumfries. I needed to completely empty the flat as I am selling it, and unfortunately I had to transport the lads by train, which was stressful for them. They then settled into their new home, which must have been scary and weird for the first few days, especially as I had to shoot back to Derbyshire to fetch the rest of my stuff and they had to get used to a new human carer. Soon after this move, Carlos' breathing got bad again and he made as much noise as before, with visibly heaving sides when he slept. I got really nervous that his condition was viral or that he had a mass on his lungs and reluctant to try antibiotics again. I started to wonder whether he would pull through. I did some Googling and his symptoms sounded like pneumonia.

I had looked up a new vet in Dumfries and was on the verge of taking him there, when I decided to try something, first. The old Indian chemist at the wonderful wholefood shop House of Mistry in Hampstead, London, had recently sold me a bottle of organic, alcohol-free propolis tincture for a sore throat I'd had, that I wanted to knock on the head quickly. I had most of the bottle left over. So I started Carlos on it, twice a day. I diluted two drops of it in some water and dripped it onto small, strongly-flavoured treats such as basil, parsley and celery leaves. After a day, the heaving sides had gone, so I kept up the treatment, postponing the vet appointment and keeping a really careful eye on the little guy. I also added vitamin drops to the water bottle and made a point of keeping him extra warm.

After four days, Carlos no longer makes any noise at all when he breathes, has perked up and seems back to his old, cheeky, energetic self. So I am going to keep up the treatment and only take him to the vet if he relapses.

Any thoughts?

Sorry, I don't have any experience with this product.

We also don't know anything about any possible side effects, which is why we do not recommend home treatment and use of human medication. Guinea pigs metabolise differently to humans. if in any doubt, please always speak to your vet before you home treat on spec.
 
I think people must have skim-read my post, or I didn't explain myself very well. I had already taken the guinea pig to the vet, twice, before trying any home treatment. I guess this is the problem with the internet...
 
I think people must have skim-read my post, or I didn't explain myself very well. I had already taken the guinea pig to the vet, twice, before trying any home treatment. I guess this is the problem with the internet...
I think everyone did read all the post, I did and would still not give anything a vet hasn't prescribed/ gave the go ahead to use.
 
I think people must have skim-read my post, or I didn't explain myself very well. I had already taken the guinea pig to the vet, twice, before trying any home treatment. I guess this is the problem with the internet...

I have read and re-read both your post and the responses which were very measured. There is nothing in the replies that indicates your post had not been read in full. You asked for thoughts and you got them.

The key issue is that despite you having previously seen a vet you are currently administering a product that has not been vet prescribed and about which we do not know the side effects in guinea pigs. I’m glad all appears to be going well for you but as a forum we can’t endorse or recommend this. Sorry.
 
I did quite a lot of online research beforehand about any possible side effects and concluded that it was safe. I would never give anything to any animal or person without researching it, first.

Nassala made a really good point about how an anti-inflammatory could give the impression of recovery, though the infection could still be there, so I will definitely get Carlos checked out asap.

I was hoping for people's thoughts and experience, on this, though not Groupthink.

I reckon it's worth leaving me this thread up, rather than deleting it, as other people could well Google this subject and find this useful.
 
From a pharmacological/toxicology/bee perspective...
Propolis could contain any mildly toxic plant alkaloids or terpenoids from any plant within 3 miles of a bee hive. Often it has pine resin. But antibacterial/antifungal plant saps and resins are often toxic. Bees dont eat it or inhale it, just smear it about the place like we might use F10 or other cleaning products. Its not like honey which bees quality-control by eating it and regurgitating it then eating it again.
Personally (as a pharmacologist/ toxicoligist/bee researcher) I wouldnt use it for veterinary purposes, there is no consistency between different batches or different hives and it is designed, by bees, to be rather toxic (think bee toilet cleaner- they can use it to "clean up" the hive after a Nosema diarrohea or deadly fungal outbreak).
But that is just my (fairly expert) opinion and I would be willing to be convinced of its safety if there were scientific studies demonstrating its efficacy and safety in small animal medicine. I was pleasantly surprised by the efficacy of manuka honey and the amount of research showing its benefits... but this isnt honey and isnt available on prescription in a nice standard sterile format with known active ingredients.
Ignore if you like I'm not being judgemental its just some bee/toxicology/random factoids that I happen to have accumulated through work :)
 
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