Putting 3 week baby boys with Dad

[Jamielfoster82]

Hello fellow guinea pig lovers! I joined this group because I’m fairly new to the guinea pig world and my family acquired a few babies that have now grown to be adults. We brought them to the vet and found that we had two boys and two girls so we have side-by-side cages separating the genders. Apparently however we did not do it fast enough because we found that one of the females were pregnant and just had babies three weeks ago. They are all doing well and I decided we are cleaning their cages today that I would try to take a look and sex them I am pretty sure that two of the three are boys and one is a girl. Unfortunately the vet here that sees small exotic animals does not have appointments until December so I took to the Internet to find out when they would be weaned and when I should separate them and to my surprise they said three weeks which they are today. I tried to put one of the young pup boys in the cage with the males and observe. The father of them seemed to be aggressively humping and chasing and went so nuts I took him back out and put them back with mom. I don’t want him hurting him. I don’t know what to do now but I also don’t want a future litter. Any advice appreciated from someone with experience with this. Dad seems to be the alpha and the other male in the cage couldn’t care less that the baby boy was in there. Dad has sniffed the babies through the cage side by side from day one so I don’t know how else to introduce them without him going nuts. Help! Thank you.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hello and welcome
What a pickle!
So you have a pair of older males, a pair of older females.
And now another pair of Male pups and a single female pup
Have I understood that correctly?

You can only keep males in pairs. Putting a third/fourth boy into a cage with two others males can cause all sorts of havoc and can ultimately ruin the relationship of the two original boys. You also cannot just put a pig into another pig’s cage as it will be seen as an invasion of territory.
Please remove boys from mum’s cage straight away. Leaving them with any females will risk further pregnancies.
If I’ve understood the situation correctly, then the two new Male pups can live together in their own separate cage. They cannot be introduced to the older males pigs. The female pup can stay with mum.
So you will end up with three separate piggy cages. One cage with three females in, one cage with the two original boys, and another cage with the two new Male babies

 

[Jamielfoster82]

Yes you are correct. I honestly do not have room for three cages as the two pages I have are very large and take up a huge space in my living room I was really hoping to keep the boys all together. Now I realize it might not be possible. My concern is dad hurting them as where the other adult male doesn’t seem to mind them. I don’t know what is normal behavior and what is concerning behavior at this point. The dad seemed to be relentless with humping and chasing. Of course I don’t want another litter we planned on getting one guinea pig but then we read somewhere online that they do better in pairs and since my husband didn’t want to leave one alone at the store he bought them all. Dummy lol. He said he couldn’t choose. So we ended up with two females and two males that are separated side-by-side cages but now with these babies in the mix it became more difficult. I was really hoping that since they are only three weeks old the boys would just go in the boy cage and everything would be fine. And maybe it will be and I’m reading too much into the behavior but he just seemed to be all over them. I put one baby boy in the boys cage at a time and observed this behavior and within minutes removed him. I’m going to have to figure something out. The piggies have to be kept higher up off the ground because we also have a small dog that is fairly docile in nature but seems to be obsessed with getting to them and I don’t know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing so I don’t chance it. Right now we have two computer desks side-by-side in my living room with the two cages up off the ground. Adding another would Require even more lost space but we really want to keep the babies.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m afraid another cage really is your only option for the two Male babies. Their age simply isn’t a factor and you aren’t reading too much into the behaviour - you just can’t keep more than two males together without fights occurring.

 

[Jamielfoster82]

What a shame. I’ll have to figure something out. I see so many videos on YouTube with so many together in one cage and they seem to get along fine. It’s odd because the other male in the cage didn’t react at all to the male babies being in there and I’m sorry and to think that the dad is just more aggressive in nature. I know that if the dad was not in there and I introduce the two babies to the other male It would be peaceful. Out to get another cage and I guess

 

[Helen82]

I agree with @Piggies&buns that the two male pairs will have to live separately. Trios of males very rarely work and four is even more unlikely. Even if you really wanted to try and put them together (not at all advisable as you may end up with four single boys in the worst case scenario) you can't keep putting a baby in and taking him out. Introductions need to take place on neutral territory and once you start you need to continue with it rather than stopping and starting. But again I really wouldn't risk it as you could break your original boys' bond. A trio with the younger males and the other older male is still unlikely to last the course once the babies hit the difficult age.

Do you have C and C cages? If so you could possibly stack an extra cage on top instead of taking up any more space. Others who have done this may be able to advise on the different permutations i.e. not next to the girls cage etc.

 

[Piggies&buns]

What a shame. I’ll have to figure something out. I see so many videos on YouTube with so many together in one cage and they seem to get along fine. It’s odd because the other male in the cage didn’t react at all to the male babies being in there and I’m sorry and to think that the dad is just more aggressive in nature. I know that if the dad was not in there and I introduce the two babies to the other male It would be peaceful. Out to get another cage and I guess

The other piggy not reacting will most likely be because he is the submissive piggy.
The dad isn’t more aggressive, he is dominant. It is his cage and he will not take kindly to any new piggies being added.
I am afraid the dad not being there and it just being the other Male would not make any difference in the long term. The chance of a trio of Male guinea pigs living together beyond the teenage months is incredibly low - the failure rate amongst trios is 90%.
The only way to keep Male guinea pigs together in any number is to have at least one square metre per guinea pig and to have at least 10 males together. In that number they form a bachelor group and no one piggy gets single out and bullied.

 

[Jamielfoster82]

All great advice! Thank you! I’ll head out and get a 3rd cage for two boys. I’ll figure out space saving later. I do not have a c+c cage, I have a 42 inch clamshell cage for them. I did not expect babies. I was new and nieve and now I know better. 7 total now and I intend to NOT let this get out of hand.

 

[Wiebke]

All great advice! Thank you! I’ll head out and get a 3rd cage for two boys. I’ll figure out space saving later. I do not have a c+c cage, I have a 42 inch clamshell cage for them. I did not expect babies. I was new and nieve and now I know better. 7 total now and I intend to NOT let this get out of hand.

I am sorry for the pickle you are in. In our experience, teenage boar couples end up most often with one working pair and two singles; but more boar pairs make it through the teenage months than not.

Please take the time to read these guides here so you can think things through and make some informed decisions and also consider your options for the longer term in case the boar pairs don't work out:
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[Piggies&buns]

All great advice! Thank you! I’ll head out and get a 3rd cage for two boys. I’ll figure out space saving later. I do not have a c+c cage, I have a 42 inch clamshell cage for them. I did not expect babies. I was new and nieve and now I know better. 7 total now and I intend to NOT let this get out of hand.

42 inches is only 106cms, what is the width of the cage? . Boys needs at least 150cms x 60cm cage. Anything less can add to tensions and cause fights (particularly during the teenage months (4-14 months of age) when hormone related tensions occur). 120cm x 60cm is the absolute welfare minimum that any guinea pig should be kept in, but boys in particular need a lot more space to stop than that to help reduce the risk of falling out.

 

[Jamielfoster82]

I got an extra large rabbit cage and their two side-by-side, it was recommended by the vet for two guinea pigs for their size and it was the biggest guinea pig cage size at the store aside from making my own. I now have three cages at a 10 foot stretch and the boys have been separated. I am feeding the boys Timothy hay Timothy pellets and of course a daily snack such as Romain lettuce cucumber parsley carrots I alternate. Is there anything extra that the babies need? There are a couple days shy over three weeks and I separated the two male babies from the mom and females just to avoid an unwanted pregnancy I’m just wondering if they need anything extra at this young age as they seem to still wanted to nurse at the time I removed them from mom. Are they ok with this diet?

 

[Piggies&buns]

They don’t need anything else - a grass hay based diet (Timothy, meadow hay etc) with a limited amount of pellets and veg is what is recommended. You can give one very small handful of alfalfa hay (in addition to grass hay) to babies under four months old. However alfalfa is not a grass hay, it is very high in calcium and is by no means essential to their diet.

Be very careful when feeding parsley - it is high in calcium and should only be fed once a week.
Carrots - too high in sugar to be fed anything other than a very occasional treat.

Ensure you include some vit c rich veg in their diet such as coriander or bell peppers.

I attach some feeding guides below:

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
Edible And Forbidden Veg And Fruit List With Vitamin C Grading

 

[Bill & Ted]

I got an extra large rabbit cage and their two side-by-side, it was recommended by the vet for two guinea pigs for their size and it was the biggest guinea pig cage size at the store aside from making my own. I now have three cages at a 10 foot stretch and the boys have been separated. I am feeding the boys Timothy hay Timothy pellets and of course a daily snack such as Romain lettuce cucumber parsley carrots I alternate. Is there anything extra that the babies need? There are a couple days shy over three weeks and I separated the two male babies from the mom and females just to avoid an unwanted pregnancy I’m just wondering if they need anything extra at this young age as they seem to still wanted to nurse at the time I removed them from mom. Are they ok with this diet?

Well done you, your a great caring owner and you’ve made the best of a difficult situation x